Calvinism provides an excuse for those in hell

[FreeGrace2]

Well, you've never given a reason why you think election gives an excuse.

That is totally untrue. I pointed out that they weren't chosen. That is the reason they are in hell, according to Calvinism. Because only the elect were chosen for heaven. You just don't want to admit it, because, you know, it's kinda not very convenient.

You just keep repeating the charge. Hence, "because I said so" is accurate.

No, you just keep denying the truth, all the while throwing the centerpiece of your theology under the bus. Being chosen for heaven is the reaon there are people in hell. They weren't chosen. Were they.

And I haven't seen anyone distance themselves from any position. I certainly have not. All I'm doing is asking for an explanation that hasn't come yet.

You'd have to open both your eyes and ears to hear the explanation. But it's clear that you're not going to.

But the centerpiece of your limited theology IS the reason people are in hell; they weren't chosen for heaven, while the other sinners were.

Bummer to be unchosen, huh.

 

[guuila]

LOL is right. First, I never said anything about God hating atheists. btw, just for your information, that phrase is internally contradicted and doesn't actually exist.

Actually, atheists do hate God. Romans 1 says they suppress the truth in unrighteousness. So you can put this little argument of yours to rest.

For one to be an atheist, they don't believe in God. So how can they hate what doesn't exist? Makes no sense.

Ask Paul. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. (Romans 1:18-20 ESV)

And there are evidences of believers who simply lost their faith in God. That doesn't mean they hate Him or even close.

So even though they deny Jesus Christ, they don't hate him? Huh.

But I know that you will use words and phrases in order to paint an entirely different picture than reality, for your own agenda.

Cool story bro. I'm not the one who believes God haters will go to heaven.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Like you don't have an agenda....

I'm glad you're admitting it, nbf. My agenda was clear: show that Calvinism provides an excuse for hell dwellers.

Amidst all the hoopla and holler, no one has been able to refute that.

Your limited theology of election and atonement is the REASON people are in hell: they simply weren't chosen for heaven.

But.....that REASON becomes an EXCUSE for them.

They would (if true) be able to say, "I am here because I wasn't chosen, like the other sinners were)."

Now, can and will you refute that statement?

 

[guuila]

I guess this was overlooked.

The ironic thing is, you MUST believe Paul's writings are inspired, or your salvation, no, your WHOLE theology and belief system is hanging on the line.

So, just an interesting observation. Here we have a man (who hates Calvinism) on FreeGrace2's thread teaching that Paul's words aren't inspired. Do you think FreeGrace2 is actually going to correct him on this error? Of course not. FreeGrace2 is going to pretend he doesn't see it. Why? Because by doing so, he has gained a comrade that will aid him on his crusade to make Calvinism look as ugly as he possibly can.

Amazing how many times I've seen this on these forums. Someone can come along and promote the most ungodly, horrific teaching known to man, but hey, if he hates Calvinism, well, the attitude of the synergists (and the like) is like "Hey! Welcome to the discussion brother!" All error gets a free pass as long as the one promoting it hates Calvinism.

 

[Hammster]

According to Calvinism, they all sure do. They weren't chosen. And Calvinism preaches that Christ died ONLY the elect. Nobody else.

But go ahead and throw the centerpiece of your theology under the bus. LOL

Non sequitur.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Didn't know you'd answered. Repost it, and I'll tell you.

Like I always say, ya gotta pay attention around here!

You posted the questions in #476 and I answered in #488.

Looked like this:
1)Human Free Will - This states that though man is fallen, he is not incapacitated by the sinful nature and can freely choose God. His will is not restricted and enslaved by his sinful nature.
This statement is in error. No one believes from their "will". And free will is about making choices, not about what one "wills".

2)Conditional Election - God chose people for salvation based on his foreknowledge where God looks into the future to see who would respond to the gospel message.
This statement is in error. It suggests that God isn't omniscient.

3)Universal Atonement - The position that Jesus bore the sin of everyone who ever lived.
That is correct, as the Bible says so.

4)Resistable Grace - The teaching that the grace of God can be resisted and finally beaten so as to reject salvation in Christ.
If you hadn't added the goofy "and finally beaten so as" nonsense, it would have been correct. Salvation is a gift which can be received or rejected. There is nothing about "being beaten".

5)Fall from Grace - The Teaching that a person can fall from grace and lose his salvation.
Heretically wrong.

 

[Hammster]

That is totally untrue. I pointed out that they weren't chosen. That is the reason they are in hell, according to Calvinism.

No, it's not.

 

[guuila]

I guess this was overlooked.

Sure. For the umpteenth time. There weren't chosen. Simple as that.

They weren't chosen in Molinism either. So how is it they only have an excuse in Calvinism?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Actually, atheists do hate God. Romans 1 says they suppress the truth in unrighteousness. So you can put this little argument of yours to rest.

Sadly for you, but Romans 1 isn't about those who don't believe that God exists, as much as you might think. Only shows how much you think.

Romans 1 is about those who reject the truth in spite of the fact that God has revealed Himself to them. 1:19-20.

Ask Paul. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. (Romans 1:18-20 ESV)[/QJUOTE]
Interesting that you'd leave out v.21, but I expected that, since it didn't fit your agenda.
"For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

Please pay attention to the first 6 words in v.21.

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

For one to be an atheist, they don't believe in God. So how can they hate what doesn't exist? Makes no sense.

If God does exist (which we all believe He does), then what the Atheist believes regarding His existence has no actual affect upon reality. This means, while the Atheist may be in contradiction in believing there is no God and hating Him at the same time, it is still entirely possible and probable that he does, even if unaware of it.

 

[RisingSpirit]

FreeGrace2 has invented this weird concept where people's sins are atoned for by Jesus, yet because of their unbelief (which is a sin that was paid for) they don't possess eternal life. So they go to hell for not having eternal life, not for sinning. (Even though the only reason one wouldn't possess eternal life would be exactly because of sin... but don't expect a logical argument. That would be asking too much.)

FG confirmes why I shouldn't visit a non-denominational church since I beleive he represents them. They may be some sort of anti Calvinist and anti- armininian where they do want to be called both or neither or the other. They don't like creeds, confessions or any orders of congregation. Non denominationals are just as guilty for holding an order of church or denomination while other denominationals also guided by the Bible. Multiple denominations each claiming they are guided by the Bible tells us all to look deeper. The deeper you look, the more one will realize that God is really the bossman and really does what He wants to do according to His Own pleasure and without man bossing and whining Him around saying, "This is not fair, God ! you can't do that ! I'm the boss of me and you can't touch me cause I THINK you said you wouldn't !"

"Non denominational" is a another name just like the rest.

 

[guuila]

Sadly for you, but Romans 1 isn't about those who don't believe that God exists, as much as you might think. Only shows how much you think.

Romans 1 is about those who reject the truth in spite of the fact that God has revealed Himself to them. 1:19-20.

Ask Paul. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. (Romans 1:18-20 ESV)[/QJUOTE]
Interesting that you'd leave out v.21, but I expected that, since it didn't fit your agenda.
"For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

Please pay attention to the first 6 words in v.21.

The point is, you believe God haters will be in heaven.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I guess this was overlooked.

So, just an interesting observation. Here we have a man (who hates Calvinism) on FreeGrace2's thread teaching that Paul's words aren't inspired. Do you think FreeGrace2 is actually going to correct him on this error? Of course not. FreeGrace2 is going to pretend he doesn't see it. Why? Because by doing so, he has gained a comrade that will aid him on his crusade to make Calvinism look as ugly as he possibly can.

Amazing how many times I've seen this on these forums. Someone can come along and promote the most ungodly, horrific teaching known to man, but hey, if he hates Calvinism, well, the attitude of the synergists (and the like) is like "Hey! Welcome to the discussion brother!" All error gets a free pass as long as the one promoting it hates Calvinism.

It's always interesting to see how you make judgments that you know nothing about. But, hey, what's new, huh.

If ASK wants to get into it with me, I'll set him straight. The OP is the subject of this thread, btw. Not that anyone actually stays with the OP or anything like that.

But your regular and very unChristian-like judgments are quite obvious.

 

[guuila]

It's always interesting to see how you make judgments that you know nothing about. But, hey, what's new, huh.

If ASK wants to get into it with me, I'll set him straight. The OP is the subject of this thread, btw. Not that anyone actually stays with the OP or anything like that.

You'll set him straight huh? Hopefully you'll do a better job than I've seen so far. LOL!!!!!

But your regular and very unChristian-like judgments are quite obvious.

Oh well. I'm still saved right?

 

[FreeGrace2]

They weren't chosen in Molinism either. So how is it they only have an excuse in Calvinism?

Who cares? I'm not debating with Molinists. Are they just another brand of Calvinists?

 

[Metal Minister]

nm

 

[guuila]

Who cares? I'm not debating with Molinists. Are they just another brand of Calvinists?

You don't know what Molinism is? Didn't you say you've been studying this subject for 30 years?

 

[FreeGrace2]

The point is, you believe God haters will be in heaven.

The point is, you have no idea what you are saying. I've never said that. But you are only trying to attach words to me that I haven't said.

Intellectual dishonesty. Knock yourself out.

 

[guuila]

The point is, you have no idea what you are saying. I've never said that. But you are only trying to attach words to me that I haven't said.

Intellectual dishonesty. Knock yourself out.

Of course you've never said it. You consistently deny the logical conclusion of your own viewpoint.

If a person believes today, then hates God next week and dies 40 years later still hating God, will that person go to heaven? Yes or no?

 

[FreeGrace2]

You'll set him straight huh? Hopefully you'll do a better job than I've seen so far. LOL!!!!!

He may very well be as stubborn as y'all. So what? Setting someone straight only means giving them the truth. What they do with it is their problem.

Oh well. I'm still saved right?

What does the Bible say?