How to Talk to Atheists

[Caedmon]

I have a lot of respect for this guy, not just for this, but for also having the world's largest art collection from the Akira anime. All Christians should read, internalize, and apply this.

"What you're currently doing - cold-call witnessing and talking to strangers at the mall about your faith and standing on street corners holding signs that read "REPENT"? Well... It's not working."

Joe The Peacock's Blog.: How To Actually Talk To Atheists (If You're Christian)

 

[WarriorAngel]

Yah - i believe in their rights to do this - but its ineffective.
When i used to see it in the city - and i am Catholic - i thot it was pretty weird.

I felt like it was a turn off.

My daughter took the time to walk with this one guy - who told her his opinion - [i think he was open to it i guess] because they talked for hours.
6 mo's later he texted her and said what she said made sense.

[He was the nephew of my friend] who told me he believed in God. He was going to church. He found some Pentecost church he was attending and he would text my girl for support.

Not long after he died in a horrible car crash and his pastor told everyone how on fire he was for God. How he said he would return with his friends [we're talking a city not far from here of ppl into drugs] and he did. And so it went - and now that he died - i sat at the funeral with some friend of his who said he didnt believe in God - but Jordan made him think about it.

So i reiterated - some points. So i hope he had thot about it and wants to follow Jordan to God.

And - because of him wanting everyone to go to God - his own family is now attending church again.

So the small ways - can save a life. I remember the morning we found out -my daughter was bawling. I started crying too - but i told her 'Sweetie, you saved him. He is with God now."

Never back down from a moment the Holy Spirit is calling you to help someone. She was [before they took a walk] fussing with him playfully and staunchly that there is a God.
It caused him to pause - because she had answers. And because he was in pain and when he did accept God - he was a much happier and stronger kid and he quit drugs.

In fact his death converted many who saw his transformation.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Another kid i hoped got the message was the last he saw that night.
Who was tempting him into drugs again.

Kid broke down.

The thing is - scriptures tell us death causes us to think more about Heaven than any other time.

Rest in peace, Jordy.

 

[Chrystal-J]

My son said he was "agnostic" and lived with room-mates who were either agnostic or atheist-leaning. I prayed for them to believe in God (that was the first step in getting them to Church). One night they called me at 2 am, demanding that I come over to help them because their house was haunted. (They could hear people talking and walking right next to them. The last straw was when they all went out and came home and some of the furniture was moved.)
I brought my bible and some novena cards. We prayed the Rosary, read scripture and did a novena. The asked me to spend the night because they were still frightened. But, I told them they now had all they needed to be safe. I left some novena cards and a rosary (with instructions). I later bought them a large picture of Jesus to hang on the wall. No matter where they move, that picture hangs prominently on the wall. I gave them a bible later that they gladly took.
They aren't attending church regularly yet--but, at least that's a start. The power of prayer works wonders, you don't have to shove tracks in someone's face to convert them. Just pray and let Jesus do the rest.

 

[WarriorAngel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If-4fLTOaWY&feature=player_embedded

 

[Crandaddy]

I think this guy's pretty much right on the money. I've never known a street evangelist to accomplish anything besides making himself look silly and everyone else feel awkward and uncomfortable. Better to follow the wisdom of St. Francis, I say:

"Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words."

If you put your money where your mouth is--if you actually live the Gospel, and don't just pay lip service to it--people will respect that, even if they don't subscribe to your beliefs, and it might dispose them to be more open to your words.

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

I have a lot of respect for this guy, not just for this, but for also having the world's largest art collection from the Akira anime. All Christians should read, internalize, and apply this.

"What you're currently doing - cold-call witnessing and talking to strangers at the mall about your faith and standing on street corners holding signs that read "REPENT"? Well... It's not working."

Joe The Peacock's Blog.: How To Actually Talk To Atheists (If You're Christian)

Nice article.

 

[Antigone]

Nice article, but somehow I feel it'll fall on deaf ears with the intended audience. I suspect street evangelists do what they do at least partly (though probably not wholly) to feel good about themselves.

 

[judechild]

Better to follow the wisdom of St. Francis, I say:

"Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words."

I'm not necessarily saying anything about your post itself, but that quote has been mistakenly attributed to St. Francis for about a century. In fact, it seems to come from several passages in Br. Thomas of Celano's ''The Life of St. Francis of Assisi.''. He was the saint's first biographer, and he often refers to Francis' entire life as a sermon; for example, in part 1, Thomas says ''he preached the gospel at all times; in action as well as in deed.'' Francis was very clear that verbal preaching was necessary for his friars, and for the Christian life. The biography ''the Flowers of Saint Francis'' records, in chapter 16, a charming little story about the Saint asking St. Chiara and a brother-friar to pray and find out whether he should devote his life solely to prayer, or if he should go out and preach; the answer that came back was that he must go out and preach.

Throughout his life, Francis preached. When he went to the sultan, he preached. When he was in the cathedral of San Rufino, he preached. He preached to the birds because the people weren't listening. The phrase ''preach... use words'' is not in either the first or final Rule, or in his letters, and I doubt that he would have said it, based on what he does say about verbal preaching.

 

[Crandaddy]

I'm not necessarily saying anything about your post itself, but that quote has been mistakenly attributed to St. Francis for about a century. In fact, it seems to come from several passages in Br. Thomas of Celano's ''The Life of St. Francis of Assisi.''. He was the saint's first biographer, and he often refers to Francis' entire life as a sermon; for example, in part 1, Thomas says ''he preached the gospel at all times; in action as well as in deed.'' Francis was very clear that verbal preaching was necessary for his friars, and for the Christian life. The biography ''the Flowers of Saint Francis'' records, in chapter 16, a charming little story about the Saint asking St. Chiara and a brother-friar to pray and find out whether he should devote his life solely to prayer, or if he should go out and preach; the answer that came back was that he must go out and preach.

Thanks for the info, judechild. I knew that the saying isn't a direct quote of him, but I figured he might've said something like it.

Throughout his life, Francis preached. When he went to the sultan, he preached. When he was in the cathedral of San Rufino, he preached. He preached to the birds because the people weren't listening. The phrase ''preach... use words'' is not in either the first or final Rule, or in his letters, and I doubt that he would have said it, based on what he does say about verbal preaching.

I had no intent to disparage verbal preaching. As the saying implicitly acknowledges, it's sometimes necessary to use words, and I'd say that it's very often fruitful to do so. My point is simply that it might not always be fruitful to preach with words, and that it is important to make what words we do use count by putting them into action ourselves.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I feel that because of the way St Francis conducted himself - it was more impressive when he preached.
He lived what he preached.

So anyway...

Peace all.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I'll echo what everyone else is saying. We Christians need to get back into the business of LIVING the Gospel. I'm the first person who needs to learn that lesson as I'm a hypocrite par excellance. We need to get back to sharing the Gospel through our actions, through prayer, through being gentle and kind, through taking care of the less fortunate/the needy as Pope Francis is admonishing people to do. We need to also quit bickering so much amongst each other. That's not to say we create an ecumenism on steroids that ignores truth, but we just need to fight the good fight more together.

We also need to stop creating selective outrage and also expecting politicians to re-Christianize the country. We need to do the heavy lifting ourselves. Christians of all stripes have gotten into this mode of thinking elections win Christianity back or lose it. Christianity has survived empires, dark ages, Enlightenments, communism, fascism, democracy, and everything in between. Politicians and our votes won't re-Christianize the West...our own individual faith and lives will.

We also need to approach atheism from the vantage point that they're just as given to faith in the unseen and invisible ideas as we are. Evolution, big bangs, and so many other things in theoretical science and physics take faith. And the idea that the world was created out of chaos, became ordered, and yet has no prime mover, it's hilariously silly.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Yup - it had to be ordered first - or there would have been no way it could have survived.
And order doesnt self create.

 

[WarriorAngel]

As an example - you want a job - good paying - you cant walk into a place and say give me that job.
You need training, right?
You need education, right?

You cannot enter into employment without knowing what you are doing. The whole system of the business relies on someone's knowledge.

Thats the same for the universe.
It doest just one day exist and then hope it all comes together ...
If self created and left to its own - it would have had no way to thrive and survive.

That would be like an illiterate prostitute taking a job of CEO and the business thriving.

There is no 2+2 in the equation....except to say = 80. It just wont work that way.

 

[Caedmon]

We also need to approach atheism from the vantage point that they're just as given to faith in the unseen and invisible ideas as we are. Evolution, big bangs, and so many other things in theoretical science and physics take faith. And the idea that the world was created out of chaos, became ordered, and yet has no prime mover, it's hilariously silly.

I'd say that's incorrect, in that faith and science use two different canons of proof, one is testable, the other is not, and you don't need one to corroborate the other. Religion uses faith. Science uses hypothetical testing of phenomena. I don't have to believe in God to test whether a bowling ball and a feather accelerate identically in a vacuum. I don't have to use quantum theory to believe in God.

 

[Caedmon]

Yup - it had to be ordered first - or there would have been no way it could have survived.
And order doesnt self create.

Ever poured a thousand marbles into a clear plastic box? Looks pretty ordered to me. Of course, order is an arbitrary human concept we use to process what happens in the universe. Like whether a star is a pulsar or a black hole, or how many six-packs I can shotgun in an hour. Order. It is what we make it. Literally.

 

[Crandaddy]

I'd say that's incorrect, in that faith and science use two different canons of proof, one is testable, the other is not, and you don't need one to corroborate the other. Religion uses faith. Science uses hypothetical testing of phenomena. I don't have to believe in God to test whether a bowling ball and a feather accelerate identically in a vacuum. I don't have to use quantum theory to believe in God.

Religious faith is not testable as science is testable, this is true. But it is not true that religious faith does not have any basis in evidence that can be perceived by the faculties of natural reason. Your church quite correctly identifies fideism as heresy.

Besides, scientists do rely on a sort of faith. They must have faith that the world they study is intelligible, and that their minds have the ability to understand it.

Ever poured a thousand marbles into a clear plastic box? Looks pretty ordered to me. Of course, order is an arbitrary human concept we use to process what happens in the universe. Like whether a star is a pulsar or a black hole, or how many six-packs I can shotgun in an hour. Order. It is what we make it. Literally.

If order is nothing more than what we make it, then how can we know anything at all about pulsars, black holes, shotguns, or anything else in the outside world as it exists in itself?

 

[MKJ]

I'd say that's incorrect, in that faith and science use two different canons of proof, one is testable, the other is not, and you don't need one to corroborate the other. Religion uses faith. Science uses hypothetical testing of phenomena. I don't have to believe in God to test whether a bowling ball and a feather accelerate identically in a vacuum. I don't have to use quantum theory to believe in God.

Science is based on the same foundations as philosophy - it only works if you take, on faith, particular unprovable metaphysical propositions.

You also have to be very careful not to make distinctions that are not accurate about how people believe in God or in any particular scientific idea.

Many people believe in god for what might be called personal reasons, but many others believe in god for reasons of metaphysical necessity and philosophical coherence. Some people with a scientific bent even believe in god because their scientific ideas lead them to those particular mataphysical conclusions.

By the same token, many people believe in scientific ideas because they see a logical argument for them or evidence of them. On the other hand, many believe scientidic explantions purely for personal reasons - on faith, or because they trust someone who says it is so. How many people have looked at all the mathematical data or models that physicists use to draw their conclusions? Even someone well versed in the evidence for evolution may be largely accepting a scientists explanation of how it must fit together as a matter of trust. And a person can believe totally that gravity exists, while rejecting the idea of relativity or any other particular description of how it works - just as with belief in god.

Ever poured a thousand marbles into a clear plastic box? Looks pretty ordered to me. Of course, order is an arbitrary human concept we use to process what happens in the universe. Like whether a star is a pulsar or a black hole, or how many six-packs I can shotgun in an hour. Order. It is what we make it. Literally.

Well, yes, marbles poured into a box are ordered, that is rather the point, isn't it? In a fundamentally ordered universe, that is what we would expect. I am not clear on why you think that contradicts the idea of an ordered universe.

The idea that all order comes from our perception is interesting, and leads to some interesting conclusions - but not ones that I would have expected from someone who seems to really like science. But maybe I am wong on that? In any case, even if we impose order on things which are truly disordered (would that be even possible?), it means that WE are ordered, which means there is order.

 

[Caedmon]

Religious faith is not testable as science is testable, this is true. But it is not true that religious faith does not have any basis in evidence that can be perceived by the faculties of natural reason. Your church quite correctly identifies fideism as heresy.

The real question is, is it faith that can be perceived by reason, or is it morality?

Besides, scientists do rely on a sort of faith. They must have faith that the world they study is intelligible, and that their minds have the ability to understand it.

That's not faith. Believing that your hypothesis is reasonable is different than assuming that you're right or wrong.

If order is nothing more than what we make it, then how can we know anything at all about pulsars, black holes, shotguns, or anything else in the outside world as it exists in itself?

Order is a type of phenomena defined by the other attributes in the universe that we also define. Consider the study of species, esp. in paleontology. What is the definition of species? How can you know whether one animal is a different species from another? All these terms are ideas defined by us to analyze perceivable phenomena.

 

[Michie]

In a letter to a newspaper, Pope Francis broadens the dialogue with non-believers...