Calvinism provides an excuse for those in hell

[guuila]

This is what I posted:

And this is what griff concluded:

Your statement has no relevance to the verses nor explanation I gave. I proved that the chosen in Eph 1 were believers. To be chosen means to be a believer.

Sorry you weren't able to figure that out. But I tried. Maybe you should.

That is the doctrine of conditional election. There's no way you can wriggle out of this one buddy. You believe people are elect *because* they believe. That is conditional election. To be elect, the condition of belief must be met. Conditional. Say it with me. Con-di-tion-al e-lec-tion.

 

[RisingSpirit]

 

[guuila]

Fantastic beard.

 

[Don Maurer]

This word isn't the word translated "elect" or "election", it's different. However, that isn't really the issue. This verse tells us on what basis God chooses for salvation: "through belief in the truth".

Heh, so the word elect cannot mean elect. Interesting view of language.

In greek, it is not the normal word for elect, but it is translated "elect."

 

[FreeGrace2]

That is conditional election.

Whatever you want to believe.

 

[FreeGrace2]

That is the doctrine of conditional election. There's no way you can wriggle out of this one buddy.

I'm not wriggling, buddie.

You believe people are elect *because* they believe. That is conditional election.

You haven't been paying attention, buddie. Election isn't about being chosen for salvation. It's about believers being chosen for special privilege and service.

 

[FreeGrace2]

That's right. ALL who believe will be saved. Even the stinkers who believe.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Heh, so the word elect cannot mean elect. Interesting view of language.

You should try to make more sense when you post.

In greek, it is not the normal word for elect, but it is translated "elect."

I suppose, but who knows, that you are referring to 2 Thess 2:13.

 

[guuila]

I'm not wriggling, buddie.

You haven't been paying attention, buddie. Election isn't about being chosen for salvation. It's about believers being chosen for special privilege and service.

I don't care what you think elect means. The point is, you believe one becomes elect by meeting a condition. Thus you believe in conditional election. Sorry bro. You can't defeat logic.

 

[Don Maurer]

FG2 claims not to be an Arminian, and he is so bad at Bible and Theology that even Arminians wish it were true that he is not an Arminian.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I don't care what you think elect means.[/QUIOTE]
Well, that is fine. That makes 2 of us. So I don't need to know yours, which is wrong anyway.

The point is, you believe one becomes elect by meeting a condition.

But since you have the wrong understanding of election, your opinion makes no difference.

Thus you believe in conditional election. Sorry bro.

Yes, you are sorry, bro.

You can't defeat logic.

Not trying. I'm defeating error amongst the Calvinists.

Well, that was fun.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FG2 claims not to be an Arminian, and he is so bad at Bible and Theology that even Arminians wish it were true that he is not an Arminian.

Pretty much proves I'm not one of them.

And can you back up your big claim at my being "so bad at Bible"? I mean, with proof of it?

Or is this just another in a long line of empty claims that haven't been backed up yet?

Tell you what. I'll give you my theology and let's see how you refute it, ok? Fair enough? And when I refute, I mean with clear Scripture that SAYS opposite of what I claim. Up to it?

Here is my theology, based entirely on Scripture.

God created man, Adam, who sinned and corrupted mankind. This means that man is not able to solve the sin problem by himself, nor save himself.

God also created mankind, from Adam, to seek Him. Acts 17:26-27

God also revealed His divine power and attributes to mankind so that no one has any excuse. Rom 1:19-20

God provided in grace the solution to the sin problem by the sacrifice of His Son, to pay the penalty of sin for the sins of the whole world. 1 Jn 2:2

By paying the sin penalty, Christ purchased (agorazo) the gift of eternal life for everyone. Heb 9:12

God's will is to give the free gift of eternal life for all who believe. Jn 6:40

God is pleased to save those who believe. 1 Cor 1:21

That, in a nutshell, is my theology. It is clear from this that God has always made the first move, NOT that man moves first, and God second, as Calvinism loves to charge non Calvinists.

So, can you refute any of my theology? Please.

 

[guuila]

.

 

[Ask Seek Knock]

FG2 claims not to be an Arminian, and he is so bad at Bible and Theology that even Arminians wish it were true that he is not an Arminian.

??? Name one!

 

[RisingSpirit]

Arminians hold to "election", but it is prescient election.

Something very different than Election as depicted in Scripture !

 

[RisingSpirit]

Arminians hold to "election", but it is prescient election.

Something very different than Election as depicted in Scripture !

[FONT=verdana, sans-serif]Prescient Election:[/FONT][FONT=verdana, sans-serif] Wrong concept of Divine Election whereby God in His prescience[/FONT]​

[FONT=verdana, sans-serif]looks [/FONT][FONT=verdana, sans-serif]into the future [/FONT][FONT=verdana, sans-serif]to see [/FONT][FONT=verdana, sans-serif]who shall choose Him (or has other merit), then elects[/FONT]​

[FONT=verdana, sans-serif]those persons unto [/FONT][FONT=verdana, sans-serif]salvation. [/FONT][FONT=verdana, sans-serif]Reduces the Supreme Being to a [/FONT][FONT=verdana, sans-serif]mere ticket-taker [/FONT][FONT=verdana, sans-serif]at[/FONT]​

[FONT=verdana, sans-serif]the gates of Heaven ![/FONT]​

 

[guuila]

FreeGrace2ism provides an excuse for people in hell. "God, you didn't make me as smart as FreeGrace2! If only I would've been created with the wherewithal to submit to Jesus like he was I would've been saved, but I was created with a more stubborn personality that thought it was more plausible that no God exists! Therefore it's not fair that I'm in hell!"

 

[RisingSpirit]

Why did God chose to save you ?

​

[SIZE=+1]
This what Calvin referred to as the "secret election
of God". As a secret, we don't know why.

That's in the positive. In the negative, we know it
wasn't due to any perceived or foreseen merit, work,
or deservedness on our part.


At the same time, however, Reformed Theology is
NOT saying Divine Election was capricious. Like:
The Supreme Being threw everyone's name into a
hat, and the Elect were the lucky few who's names
got pulled out !

Divine Election ain't a lottery.

There were reasons. We just don't know (in a
positive sense) why. While we do know (in the
negative) that it has nothing to do with anyone's
merit or deservedness.[/SIZE]

 

[FreeGrace2]

??? Name one!

Geez! Asking for proof for any of their claims?? LOL

 

[FreeGrace2]

Arminians hold to "election", but it is prescient election.

Something very different than Election as depicted in Scripture !

I have no idea what "prescient" election is. The word isn't found in Scripture. But another fact is that Calvinistic election isn't found there either.