• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

An atheists world (2)

Status
Not open for further replies.

mzungu

INVICTUS
Dec 17, 2010
7,162
250
Earth!
✟32,475.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
No, but keep in mind that some believe, as do I, that parts of evolution are missing ... not because "photos weren't taken," but because they were never there in the first place, and you couldn't take a photo if you wanted to.

That's the difference.

Imagine I saying you'll never see a photograph of me when I was 17, because I never existed as a 17-year-old.

That's just άλαλος.
There are no parts of evolution missing. If you are referring to so called "missing links" then you are mistaken. Even without the fossil record; ToE will still stand unscathed. You are dismissing the most sound scientific theory of all time AV.

To you creationists out there. ToE is here to stay whether you feel threatened by it or not. Just remember that Megabucks come from attacking ToE in Mega churches. It is all about making money by making ToE look like the enemy. Old and tried tactic that unfortunately has many followers.
 
Upvote 0

createdtoworship

In the grip of grace
Mar 13, 2004
18,941
1,758
West Coast USA
✟48,173.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
So let's get back to evolution.

Why do you have a problem with it? Is it because it debunks the various Genesis myths? Even without evolution we know those aren't true.

even without the Bible we know evolution isn't true, so what is the point here?
 
Upvote 0

CarlosTomy

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2013
473
20
✟725.00
Faith
Atheist
even without the Bible we know evolution isn't true, so what is the point here?

So what about the countless thousands of professional scientists who actually study this stuff every day for decades upon decades and who, over the past nearly 200 years have come to the conclusion that evolution IS true?

Are you holding out some killer piece of evidence that will render the collected science of millions of person-hours of research completely false?

Or are you just repeating what a few religion-biased, scientifically illiterate organizations tell you is the truth about evolution?

If it's the former, please show us! (And it can't be one of the PRATT List).
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
even without the Bible we know evolution isn't true, so what is the point here?

Wrong, the amount of evidence and support for the theory of evolution is overwhelming.

The evidence for your God is practically nill.

Why are you being so objectionable? I already went over the nature of evidence yesterday, that was the time to object to the nature of evidence.

Why do you have a problem with evolution? Your complaint of "not enough evidence" would be the same as claiming you did not have enough evidence to convict a murderer because you don't know what he had for breakfast 20 years ago.
 
Upvote 0

createdtoworship

In the grip of grace
Mar 13, 2004
18,941
1,758
West Coast USA
✟48,173.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
So what about the countless thousands of professional scientists who actually study this stuff every day for decades upon decades and who, over the past nearly 200 years have come to the conclusion that evolution IS true?

Are you holding out some killer piece of evidence that will render the collected science of millions of person-hours of research completely false?

Or are you just repeating what a few religion-biased, scientifically illiterate organizations tell you is the truth about evolution?

If it's the former, please show us! (And it can't be one of the PRATT List).

you gotta remember teaching the controversy of evolution has won 8 states already, thats over 16 percent of the nation in a little over a decade. I assume in the next 50-75 years the rest of the nation will be teaching the controversy.

so back to the evidence, have you yet read "signature of the cell" by stephen meyer?

it basically asks how things like the double helix can evolve?
 
Upvote 0

createdtoworship

In the grip of grace
Mar 13, 2004
18,941
1,758
West Coast USA
✟48,173.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Wrong, the amount of evidence and support for the theory of evolution is overwhelming.

The evidence for your God is practically nill.

Why are you being so objectionable? I already went over the nature of evidence yesterday, that was the time to object to the nature of evidence.

Why do you have a problem with evolution? Your complaint of "not enough evidence" would be the same as claiming you did not have enough evidence to convict a murderer because you don't know what he had for breakfast 20 years ago.

I didn't say anything about God, remember we were talking about evolution.

You said "I will try to answer any question"

so what about the double helix?

All you want to say is "this is the nature of evidence"

and actually not provide it?

remember saw this pony show yesterday, still no answer today.

ok
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
you gotta remember teaching the controversy of evolution has won 8 states already, thats over 16 percent of the nation in a little over a decade. I assume in the next 50-75 years the rest of the nation will be teaching the controversy.

so back to the evidence, have you yet read "signature of the cell" by stephen meyer?

it basically asks how things like the double helix can evolve?

Really? Name those states please. My problem with all versions of attacking the theory of evolution is that it is clearly a breaking of the Ninth Commandment by Christians. For example the book you referred to pretended to be open minded when its bias was more than clear.
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
I didn't say anything about God, remember we were talking about evolution.

You said "I will try to answer any question"

so what about the double helix?

All you want to say is "this is the nature of evidence"

and actually not provide it?

remember saw this pony show yesterday, still no answer today.

ok
And you said that we would talk about evolution.

The development of the double helix was an abiogenesis event.

A separate but related topic.

But see, I did answer your question.

Next question please.

Just to clarify evolution deals with life once it exists.
 
Upvote 0

bhsmte

Newbie
Apr 26, 2013
52,761
11,792
✟254,941.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
So what about the countless thousands of professional scientists who actually study this stuff every day for decades upon decades and who, over the past nearly 200 years have come to the conclusion that evolution IS true?

Are you holding out some killer piece of evidence that will render the collected science of millions of person-hours of research completely false?

Or are you just repeating what a few religion-biased, scientifically illiterate organizations tell you is the truth about evolution?

If it's the former, please show us! (And it can't be one of the PRATT List).

Well, for Gradyl, that is an appeal to authority and that is not allowed.

So, when we want to hear expert opinion on things, it doesn't help to have 99% of a group that knows more about a topic than anyone else (by a mile), all agree about evolution.

You see, there really isn't any evidence for evolution, these 99% of scientists have all come together as a conspiracy, put their reputations on the line, just to go against what the bible states about creation.

Makes perfect sense, doesn't it?
 
Upvote 0

createdtoworship

In the grip of grace
Mar 13, 2004
18,941
1,758
West Coast USA
✟48,173.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
And you said that we would talk about evolution.

The development of the double helix was an abiogenesis event.

A separate but related topic.

But see, I did answer your question.

Next question please.

Just to clarify evolution deals with life once it exists.

how about the RNA, then

here is a clip from the book: from stephen meyers:

"The Origin of Biological Information

Consider the following sequence of letters:
AGTCTGGGACGCGCCGCCGCCATGATCATCCCTGTACGCTGCTTCACTTGT
GGCAAGATCGTCGGCAACAAGTGGGAGGCTTACCTGGGGCTGCTGCAGGC
CGAGTACACCGAGGGGTGAGGCGCGGGCCGGGGCTAGGGGCTGAGTCCGC
CGTGGGGCGCGGGCCGGGGCTGGGGGCTGAGTCCGCCCTGGGGTGCGCGC
CGGGGCGGGAGGCGCAGCGCTGCCTGAGGCCAGCGCCCCATGAGCAGCT
TCAGGCCCGGCTTCTCCAGCCCCGCTCTGTGATCTGCTTTCGGGAGAACC
This string of alphabetic characters looks as if it could be a block of encoded information, perhaps a section of text or machine code. That impression is entirely correct, for this string of characters is not just a random assortment of the four letters A, T, G, and C, but a representation of part of the sequence of genetic assembly instructions for building a protein machine—an RNA polymerase28—critical to gene expression (or information processing) in a living cell.
Now consider the following string of characters:
01010111011010000110010101101110001000000110100101
1011100010000001110100011010000110010100100000010
0001101101111011101010111001001110011011001010010
00000110111101100110001000000110100001110101011011
0101100001011011100010000001100101011101100110010
1011011100111010001110011001000000110100101110100
This sequence also appears to be an information-rich sequence, albeit written in binary code. As it happens, this sequence is also not just a random array of characters, but the first words of the Declaration of Independence (“When in the course of human events…”)29 written in the binary conversion of the American Standard Code for Information Interchange (ASCII). In the ASCII code, short specified sequences of zeros and ones correspond to specific alphabetic letters, numerals, or punctuation marks.
Though these two blocks of encoded information employ different conventions (one uses the ASCII code, the other the genetic code), both are complex, nonrepeating sequences that are highly specified relative to the functional or communication requirements that they perform. This similarity explains, in part, Dawkins’s observation that, “The machine code of the genes is uncannily computer-like.” Fair enough. But what should we make of this similarity between informational software—the undisputed product of conscious intelligence—and the informational sequences found in DNA and other important biomolecules?
Introduction to an Enigma

I first encountered the DNA enigma as a young scientist in Dallas, Texas, in 1985. At the time, I was working for one of the big multinational oil companies. I had been hired as an exploration geophysicist several years earlier just as the price of oil had spiked and just as I was graduating from college with degrees in physics and geology. My job, as the Texas oilmen put it, was to “look for awl out in the guff.”
Though I had been a physics and geology student, I had enough exposure to biology to know what DNA did. I knew that it stored the instruction set, the information, for building proteins in the cell and that it transmitted hereditary traits in living things using its four-character chemical alphabet. Even so, like many scientists I had never really thought about where DNA—or the information it contained—came from in the first place. If asked, I would have said it had something to do with evolution, but I couldn’t have explained the process in any detail.
On February 10, 1985, I learned that I wasn’t the only one. On that day I found myself sitting in front of several world-class scientists who were discussing a vexing scientific and philosophical question: How did the first life on earth arise? As recently as the evening before, I had known nothing about the conference where this discussion was now taking place. I had been attending another event in town, a lecture at the Southern Methodist University by a Harvard astronomer discussing the big-bang theory. There I learned of a conference taking place the following day that would tackle three big scientific questions—the origin of the universe, the origin of life, and the nature of human consciousness. The conference would bring together scientists from competing philosophical perspectives to grapple with each of these issues. The next morning I walked into the downtown Hilton where the conference was being held and heard an arresting discussion of what scientists knew they didn’t know."
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
how about the RNA, then

here is a clip from the book: from stephen meyers:

"The Origin of Biological Information

Consider the following sequence of letters:
AGTCTGGGACGCGCCGCCGCCATGATCATCCCTGTACGCTGCTTCACTTGT
GGCAAGATCGTCGGCAACAAGTGGGAGGCTTACCTGGGGCTGCTGCAGGC
CGAGTACACCGAGGGGTGAGGCGCGGGCCGGGGCTAGGGGCTGAGTCCGC
CGTGGGGCGCGGGCCGGGGCTGGGGGCTGAGTCCGCCCTGGGGTGCGCGC
CGGGGCGGGAGGCGCAGCGCTGCCTGAGGCCAGCGCCCCATGAGCAGCT
TCAGGCCCGGCTTCTCCAGCCCCGCTCTGTGATCTGCTTTCGGGAGAACC
This string of alphabetic characters looks as if it could be a block of encoded information, perhaps a section of text or machine code. That impression is entirely correct, for this string of characters is not just a random assortment of the four letters A, T, G, and C, but a representation of part of the sequence of genetic assembly instructions for building a protein machine—an RNA polymerase28—critical to gene expression (or information processing) in a living cell.
Now consider the following string of characters:
01010111011010000110010101101110001000000110100101
1011100010000001110100011010000110010100100000010
0001101101111011101010111001001110011011001010010
00000110111101100110001000000110100001110101011011
0101100001011011100010000001100101011101100110010
1011011100111010001110011001000000110100101110100
This sequence also appears to be an information-rich sequence, albeit written in binary code. As it happens, this sequence is also not just a random array of characters, but the first words of the Declaration of Independence (“When in the course of human events…”)29 written in the binary conversion of the American Standard Code for Information Interchange (ASCII). In the ASCII code, short specified sequences of zeros and ones correspond to specific alphabetic letters, numerals, or punctuation marks.
Though these two blocks of encoded information employ different conventions (one uses the ASCII code, the other the genetic code), both are complex, nonrepeating sequences that are highly specified relative to the functional or communication requirements that they perform. This similarity explains, in part, Dawkins’s observation that, “The machine code of the genes is uncannily computer-like.” Fair enough. But what should we make of this similarity between informational software—the undisputed product of conscious intelligence—and the informational sequences found in DNA and other important biomolecules?
Introduction to an Enigma

I first encountered the DNA enigma as a young scientist in Dallas, Texas, in 1985. At the time, I was working for one of the big multinational oil companies. I had been hired as an exploration geophysicist several years earlier just as the price of oil had spiked and just as I was graduating from college with degrees in physics and geology. My job, as the Texas oilmen put it, was to “look for awl out in the guff.”
Though I had been a physics and geology student, I had enough exposure to biology to know what DNA did. I knew that it stored the instruction set, the information, for building proteins in the cell and that it transmitted hereditary traits in living things using its four-character chemical alphabet. Even so, like many scientists I had never really thought about where DNA—or the information it contained—came from in the first place. If asked, I would have said it had something to do with evolution, but I couldn’t have explained the process in any detail.
On February 10, 1985, I learned that I wasn’t the only one. On that day I found myself sitting in front of several world-class scientists who were discussing a vexing scientific and philosophical question: How did the first life on earth arise? As recently as the evening before, I had known nothing about the conference where this discussion was now taking place. I had been attending another event in town, a lecture at the Southern Methodist University by a Harvard astronomer discussing the big-bang theory. There I learned of a conference taking place the following day that would tackle three big scientific questions—the origin of the universe, the origin of life, and the nature of human consciousness. The conference would bring together scientists from competing philosophical perspectives to grapple with each of these issues. The next morning I walked into the downtown Hilton where the conference was being held and heard an arresting discussion of what scientists knew they didn’t know."


Seriously? You have to ask? That goes back even further in time.

Once again evolution deals with life once it exists. Do you not understand that simple sentence? And the best Steven Meyers could come up with was an argument from ignorance. In other words "I don't understand this problem, therefore God did it." Do you see how that approach solves nothing?

There are groups studying abiogenesis right now. In fact here is a simple video that explains the basics:

The Origin of Life - Abiogenesis - Dr. Jack Szostak - YouTube

Turn up your speakers.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,856,242
52,664
Guam
✟5,156,107.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
There are no parts of evolution missing.
Perhaps you've missed my daisy-chain challenge?
If you are referring to so called "missing links" then you are mistaken.
I doubt it.
Even without the fossil record; ToE will still stand unscathed.
Yes, I know.

It will be alive and well, right through the Tribulation period.

This means that the Theory of Evolution is not going to be falsified by Christians, evolutionists, scientists, or anyone.

Falsifying evolution is going to be done by Jesus, Himself, when He returns.

Until then, evolution is going to wax worse and worse as the tares grow, culminating in the Antichrist using it to get scientists to take the Mark.

In my opinion.
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
By the way, DNA is said to be "like machine language" by those who don't understand it.

It is actually more like a recipe. Changing a phrase in machine language can make a computer crash. With DNA you are much more likely to slightly change a protein. Most of the time the resulting protein will act very similarly to the previously "recipe'd" protein. It will not be a disaster. Which is lucky for you since you probably have about 150 mutations from your parents' DNA.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,856,242
52,664
Guam
✟5,156,107.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I'm British so please feel free to destroy as much as you can of American youth with your crap, don't let up.
In the meantime, look around ... England has one of the largest mosques in Europe.

So thank you for worrying about us boys across the pond, and keep them student demonstrations of college students rolling the prince's car because your government tripled your tuition.

I like how seriously you guys take your education.

(P.S. I know you said you were British, and I referenced England; so spare me a lecture if you're not English. I'm not familiar with what part of Great Britain has a jungle, james.)
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Perhaps you've missed my daisy-chain challenge?
Correction, you mean your daisy-chain error.

That failed when you could not prove your own existence using those standards. It was a false test.
Falsifying evolution is going to be done by Jesus, Himself, when He returns.

Why would he do that? I seriously doubt if Jesus would not tell the truth.

Until then, evolution is going to wax worse and worse as the tares grow, culminating in the Antichrist using it to get scientists to take the Mark.

In my opinion.
What do you mean "worse and worse". Evolution gets stronger every year. The evidence for it keeps on growing. Your side has even abandoned the scientific method whenever they attack it.
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
In the meantime, look around ... England has one of the largest mosques in Europe.

So thank you for worrying about us boys across the pond, and keep them student demonstrations of college students rolling the prince's car because your government tripled your tuition.

I like how seriously you guys take your education.

(P.S. I know you said you were British, and I referenced England; so spare me a lecture if you're not English.)

What does the fact that there are mosques in England have to do with anything?
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,856,242
52,664
Guam
✟5,156,107.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
What does the fact that there are mosques in England have to do with anything?
He was probably standing on top of one to holler over here and whine about creationism.

Translation: get the skeletons out of your own closet, before you worry about ours.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.