Calvinism provides an excuse for those in hell

[FreeGrace2]

Not receiving eternal life would only come about because of sin.

You really don't know your Bible, huh, griff? Aren't you aware of these verses?

John 3:15-16
15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24
24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40
40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Which you say Jesus paid for. Talking in circles.

No, griff, I'm not talking in circles. It's just that you apparently think in circles.

Jesus did purchase eternal life for everyone. Heb 2:9 and 9:12.

So, where do you learn about limited atonement in Scripture?

Show us where the Bible teaches a person without sin goes to hell.

Of course I can't, because that is a stupid claim, one that I have never made.

Everyone is a sinner, including the elect. Can you refute the OP or not?

Your distractions are distracting. Focus

 

[FreeGrace2]

And why don't they have eternal life? Because they didn't believe.

Unbelief is a sin. You say it was paid for. Logically then, their unbelief is paid for so they can't be punished for it.

I have already said that no one is in hell for sin, so what's your problem?

They are there for not having eternal life. They never received the gift.

It may be more "tolerable" for some, but it's still not a place I want to be....

I'm going to tell you what I just told griff. Can you refute the OP or not? All your posts and questions are nothing more than poor distractions and smokescreen.

When people can't refute the OP, they have to resort to other tactics, to take the focus off their inability to refute the OP.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So no scripture? That's what I thought.

I fully expect that you would be familiar with the concept that it is our physical bodies that are sinful, and when the soul leaves the body, we don't take our sin with us.

But maybe you don't know these things. I thought everyone knew. But I'm not going to do the research for you. This thread is about Calvinism providing an excuse for hell dwellers. Can you refute that or not?

All you guys are doing is bringing up every doctrine under the sun in order to distract from your inability to refute the OP.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If you can reject the gift, as you've claimed (assuming by free will), why can't you reject the wage?

I have no idea what you are asking. What does the "wage" have to do with the gift? It makes no sense.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Well, technically it doesn't. It just says that God cannot know the future because the future hasn't happened yet. But it holds that God knows everything else.

Sorry, but technically YES, they deny omniscience. Who said that omniscience is limited by the future?

Just wanted to clear up that misconception.

Well, you are wrong, so you didn't clear up anything.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Why would God discipline me? Didn't He give me free will and eternal life?

Because He's God and He warns us. I thought everyone knew that.

 

[crimsonleaf]

So what? Why don't you think that God would keep His end of His promise? Are you Arminian?

So what? Your general manner doesn't exactly endear you. So what is that God would be perfectly just in removing eternal life given for belief if belief ceased.

Actually, the promise is for everyone. Those who believe receive the gift. I thought everyone knew that.

The promise is for those who believe. See John 3:16.

Wrong. See above.

In your opinion.

You can't any verse to support your doctrine. Paul's entire thrust to believers was to "continue in the faith". I thought everyone knew that.

That's exactly what I said

Just another stupid "illustration" that lowers God to not being omniscient.

The illustration isn't stupid. It's a potted version of your belief. Rather than just gainsaying, perhaps you could point out which elements are stupid?

It's pretty clear that you guys have very little understanding of what GRACE really means.

LOL!!!!

You can call them anything you care to. I don't care.

Well, we do care, which is why we waste so much time arguing with people who can only call us "Stupid", "Whining", "Squirming" and punctuate his points with "Got it", "I don't care" and "So what".

 

[Hammster]

I fully expect that you would be familiar with the concept that it is our physical bodies that are sinful, and when the soul leaves the body, we don't take our sin with us.

But maybe you don't know these things. I thought everyone knew. But I'm not going to do the research for you. This thread is about Calvinism providing an excuse for hell dwellers. Can you refute that or not?

All you guys are doing is bringing up every doctrine under the sun in order to distract from your inability to refute the OP.

I've tried to stick to the OP. You abandoned our discussion. So I had to bring it back up. Don't fault me for responding to your other errors.

 

[Hammster]

I have no idea what you are asking. What does the "wage" have to do with the gift? It makes no sense.

Really? I'll explain it for you then.

A gift, in your apparent limited definition, is something someone gives you that you can accept or reject.

A wage is something you earn for working. However, some folks work for free. They volunteer and would reject payment for services.

So if the gift can allegedly be rejected, why not also the wage?

 

[Hammster]

Sorry, but technically YES, they deny omniscience. Who said that omniscience is limited by the future?


Well, you are wrong, so you didn't clear up anything.

You do realize that there's no definition of omniscience in the bible, right?

 

[Hammster]

Because He's God and He warns us. I thought everyone knew that.

Really? That's the reason?

 

[guuila]

Can you refute the OP or not?

Did that ages ago.

If not, there's no reason to post.

N/A

Your posts are nothing more than so much smokescreen that we're all probably going to get lung cancer.

That's a possibility. Another possibility is I've uncovered a part of your theology you have no idea how to deal with. I'm voting on the latter. Your theology allows for the possibility that AT LEAST ONE person who hates God will be in heaven. Must suck being an atheist who is forced into heaven right? LOLZ~

So, focus on the OP. I'm not interested in your distractions. But since you can't refute the OP, you have nothing else to do.

Right. Good strategy for when you don't know how to deal with the issues presented. Try to control the conversation.

 

[guuila]

You really don't know your Bible, huh, griff? Aren't you aware of these verses?

John 3:15-16
15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24
24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40
40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

I love those verses! Heck, I love the whole Bible! Keep 'em coming bro!

Jesus did purchase eternal life for everyone. Heb 2:9 and 9:12.

So why don't they have eternal life? Did Jesus waste his blood?

So, where do you learn about limited atonement in Scripture?

You're the one who limits the atonement. I believe the atonement purchased my faith and repentance, and also secured my salvation infallibly. You don't believe the atonement purchased your repentance. Why are you limiting it like that?

Of course I can't, because that is a stupid claim, one that I have never made.

You claim people in hell had their sins paid for. So you're saying they had their sins paid for AND there's still sin on their record? Do you do logic at all bro?

 

[crimsonleaf]

FreeGrace2 I have a question:

You believe that unsaved man goes to Hell for not accepting the gift of eternal life. The Christian definition of Hell includes eternal torment. So why, in your theology, is man's default position Hell? Why not just let their lives cease when they die? Why the punishment?

Surely you're not saying that man is to be eternally punished for not receiving a gift?

 

[RisingSpirit]

... Do you do logic at all bro?

His tricks are getting old !

​

 

[guuila]

His tricks are getting old !

​

LOL "freakingnews.com" -- sounds like a great source for news.

 

[guuila]

FreeGrace2 I have a question:

You believe that unsaved man goes to Hell for not accepting the gift of eternal life. The Christian definition of Hell includes eternal torment. So why, in your theology, is man's default position Hell? Why not just let their lives cease when they die? Why the punishment?

Surely you're not saying that man is to be eternally punished for not receiving a gift?

Seems kind of weird right? God loves these people soooo much; yet even though he knows with perfect knowledge they'll never believe, he goes ahead and creates them anyway, sends Christ to die for them, sends the Holy Spirit to draw them, and then sentences them to eternal hellfire when they don't respond, even though the failure to respond is a sin Christ already paid for.

 

[RisingSpirit]

LOL "freakingnews.com" -- sounds like a great source for news.

Great source from barking sheep

​

 

[FreeGrace2]

So what? Your general manner doesn't exactly endear you. So what is that God would be perfectly just in removing eternal life given for belief if belief ceased.

You are quite wrong on that one. What He promises He fulfills. Period. I thought you were a Calvinist. So apparently you aren't.

The promise is for those who believe. See John 3:16.

Right. Once saved, always saved.

The illustration isn't stupid. It's a potted version of your belief.

Well, then you don't understand my belief.

Rather than just gainsaying, perhaps you could point out which elements are stupid?

Why? Don't you understand what "omniscience" means? It means that God knows everything, and isn't bound by time.

Well, we do care, which is why we waste so much time arguing with people who can only call us "Stupid", "Whining", "Squirming" and punctuate his points with "Got it", "I don't care" and "So what".

OK, so you're quite hypersensitive. But please show me any post where I've called anyone "stupid". I'd love to see it. As for, whining and squirming, just look over the posts of all the Calvinists.

And, btw, just so you know, I add "Got it?" in order to make a point; y'all aren't "getting it". That's why. When you guys quit misrepresenting my view, I'll not have to do that. Got it?

And as for the "so what" comment; it's done to make a point; which is; what is your point? I thought most people knew that.

And when I say "I don't care", I really mean it.

ps: if you are upset by my posts, you don't have to respond to them.

 

[crimsonleaf]

You are quite wrong on that one. What He promises He fulfills. Period. I thought you were a Calvinist. So apparently you aren't.

I am a Calvinist. That's why I reject most of what you say. Anyone who "falls away" permanently was never saved, precisely because God keeps his promises.

Well, then you don't understand my belief.

I've already asked you to point out how my skit differs from your belief. As usual you can't answer the question so fall back on standard denial.

Why? Don't you understand what "omniscience" means? It means that God knows everything, and isn't bound by time.

If that's your attempt at an answer it falls short by a long way. See my comment above. Ignore God's surprise and concentrate on the bulk of the piece - God trapping himself into providing a reward to someone who effectively gives him the finger.

OK, so you're quite hypersensitive. But please show me any post where I've called anyone "stupid". I'd love to see it. As for, whining and squirming, just look over the posts of all the Calvinists.

Firstly, I'm not hypersensitive. I was brought up to believe that manners are important, and so were most of my American friends. You are an exception to my usual experience of your countrymen.

Secondly, repeating the insult doesn't make you look good.

And, btw, just so you know, I add "Got it?" in order to make a point; y'all aren't "getting it". That's why. When you guys quit misrepresenting my view, I'll not have to do that. Got it?

So why add "Got it" to the end of the sentence above? What didn't I get and what have I misrepresented?

And as for the "so what" comment; it's done to make a point; which is; what is your point? I thought most people knew that.

And when I say "I don't care", I really mean it.

ps: if you are upset by my posts, you don't have to respond to them.

I understand that, but when I come across someone in such desperate need of education I can't help myself.