An atheists world (2)

[toolmanjantzi]

Then do not push truths that are demonstrably wrong.

No then, just the now.

 

[toolmanjantzi]

And gradyll, a very important point from the video that I linked. Dawkins mentions a study that was done that showed how long it took for an eye to evolve. The study conservatively estimated that an eye could evolve within a quarter of a million years. That would more than explain rapidly appearing eyes in the fossil record. It is also supported by nature by the many different types of eyes that have evolved. Eyes did not evolve only once, they have evolved several times over. Our eyes may look similar to a squid or octopus eye but a closer investigation shows they took a very different path than we did. As a result they do not have the blind spot that we do.

Your right about being blind.

 

[Lucy Stulz]

they are simply teaching the controvery for academic freedom and critical thinking over evolutionary pros and cons right now, maybe for a long time coming.

You mean the same way they teach the flat earth for academic freedom and "critical thinking"?

At what point does "critical thinking" start relying on best evidence? Or is "critical thinking" in the world of ID done without that crutch?

 

[createdtoworship]

Then I present to you:

E = hc/λ

λ: wavelength
h: planck's contsant
c: speed of light
E: energy of a photon of light

please, go on.....

 

[createdtoworship]

You mean the same way they teach the flat earth for academic freedom and "critical thinking"?

At what point does "critical thinking" start relying on best evidence? Or is "critical thinking" in the world of ID done without that crutch?

I see the ad hominems are coming out in your first few posts...

 

[Subduction Zone]

Your right about being blind.

Yes, no one is as blind as a creationist that refuses to see.

Not only do we have evidence for our beliefs we can repeat the experiment in labs. Pretty cool.

Creationists on the other hand have a book. A book that says you can get striped offspring by having the parents mate while looking at sticks stripped of their bark. That leprosy can be cured by doves blood. That the Earth is flat.

Strange none of them believe those claims today, in fact they will even deny some of them, yet they dispute one of the strongest theories that science has ever developed.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I see the ad hominems are coming out in your first few posts...

The problem is that the so called critical thinking is only turned towards evolution and a lot of the "critical thinking" are logical errors. Meanwhile if the same amount of critical thinking was aimed at the Genesis accounts we might have some fatalities from children laughing themselves to death.

Seriously there is no controversy about evolution. Critical thinking, if properly done, supports evolution. The textbook you supplied did not have critical thinking in it. It had quote mining and strawman arguments.

 

[Lucy Stulz]

I see the ad hominems are coming out in your first few posts...

Well, considering that this isn't an ad hominem, I'm not entirely certain how you arrived at that conclusion.

Shall I explain to you what an ad hominem is?

OK!

An ad hominem is a fallacious debate tactic in which, instead of addressing the CONTENT of the post I would say something like: "Well, consider who said that...this person is a KNOWN scoff-law and the dress funny!"

An ad hominem is not just an INSULT, but actually means "to the man" or "to the person" which means that I would attempt to divert AWAY from the point NOT NECESSARILY with an insult but with something that questions the person's motives or calls into question why they said that based on an UNRELATED issue.

So it wasn't an ad hominem and it actually just addressed your point directly!

See how a little education in this field goes a long way?

 

[Lucy Stulz]

please, go on.....

Do I NEED to? I'm showing a relationship between the wave and the energy.

 

[createdtoworship]

Do I NEED to? I'm showing a relationship between the wave and the energy.

don't let me interrupt, please explain the relations. Assume I know nothing about math.

 

[createdtoworship]

See how a little education in this field goes a long way?

I just wanted to point out, that so far you have said I was uneducated.

which is an ad hominem.

 

[createdtoworship]

The problem is that the so called critical thinking is only turned towards evolution and a lot of the "critical thinking" are logical errors. Meanwhile if the same amount of critical thinking was aimed at the Genesis accounts we might have some fatalities from children laughing themselves to death.

Seriously there is no controversy about evolution. Critical thinking, if properly done, supports evolution. The textbook you supplied did not have critical thinking in it. It had quote mining and strawman arguments.

did you even read the book I suggested?

the one that I recommend is the explore evolution curriculum

Explore Evolution

 

[Subduction Zone]

did you even read the book I suggested?

the one that I recommend is the explore evolution curriculum

Explore Evolution

I can't read the whole thing, but I took advantage of their "peek inside" they offer. I only saw poor attacks on evolution. There was no critical thinking.

That book is clearly not a valid textbook.

 

[createdtoworship]

I can't read the whole thing, but I took advantage of their "peek inside" they offer. I only saw poor attacks on evolution. There was no critical thinking.

That book is clearly not a valid textbook.

agian I wouldn't know I just read reviews of it.
they were 4/5 stars

here is one review:

"I am a student in a 10th grade biology course, and we are using this text in our studies of evolution. Although we have not quite finished the book yet, I absolutely love this book. I am very pleased to finally find a book that looks from the matter at a perspective other than the "evolution and no other option" viewpoint that is forced into most students' minds.

I love a good debate, and I find it very refreshing to see people question the theory of evolution, while still explaining the evidence that scientists use to explain it. The only complaint I have is that this book lacks depth, and only gives a very basic explanation of the various theories. I will likely further my reading, as this topic interests me greatly.

I am disappointed to see so many 1-star reviews, simply because people don't like anything that dares question their evolution theories. It's sad to see such closed-mindedness (not that the other end of the spectrum is any less guilty), though I suppose it can't be helped.

Regardless, I found this to be a very helpful introductory material to the subject of evolution and the many theories surrounding it. I hope to delve deeper into the subject via further reading. I would recommend to this to any high school student or even someone in their early years of college who want a glimpse at both sides of the topic. "

amazon.com

however even if it gets a 1 star, I wouldn't know because I technically haven't read it. And much of us have not either, so until you get a copy (which I was already doing as of yesterday), we really can't say.

 

[createdtoworship]

I can't read the whole thing, but I took advantage of their "peek inside" they offer. I only saw poor attacks on evolution. There was no critical thinking.

That book is clearly not a valid textbook.

please go on, I am curious what was not "critical thinking" or like the others was this just a blanketed attack on something different.

 

[Subduction Zone]

agian I wouldn't know I just read reviews of it.
they were 4/5 stars

here is one review:

"I am a student in a 10th grade biology course, and we are using this text in our studies of evolution. Although we have not quite finished the book yet, I absolutely love this book. I am very pleased to finally find a book that looks from the matter at a perspective other than the "evolution and no other option" viewpoint that is forced into most students' minds.

I love a good debate, and I find it very refreshing to see people question the theory of evolution, while still explaining the evidence that scientists use to explain it. The only complaint I have is that this book lacks depth, and only gives a very basic explanation of the various theories. I will likely further my reading, as this topic interests me greatly.

I am disappointed to see so many 1-star reviews, simply because people don't like anything that dares question their evolution theories. It's sad to see such closed-mindedness (not that the other end of the spectrum is any less guilty), though I suppose it can't be helped.

Regardless, I found this to be a very helpful introductory material to the subject of evolution and the many theories surrounding it. I hope to delve deeper into the subject via further reading. I would recommend to this to any high school student or even someone in their early years of college who want a glimpse at both sides of the topic. "

amazon.com

however even if it gets a 1 star, I wouldn't know because I technically haven't read it. And much of us have not either, so until you get a copy (which I was already doing as of yesterday), we really can't say.

Reviews don't really tell you to much. Who were the reviewers is the first question that you have to ask. Definitely not scientists or science teachers. If you pick your reviewers carefully you can have an artificially high
rating.

 

[Skaloop]

agian I wouldn't know I just read reviews of it.
they were 4/5 stars

here is one review:

"I am a student in a 10th grade biology course, and we are using this text in our studies of evolution. Although we have not quite finished the book yet, I absolutely love this book. I am very pleased to finally find a book that looks from the matter at a perspective other than the "evolution and no other option" viewpoint that is forced into most students' minds.

I love a good debate, and I find it very refreshing to see people question the theory of evolution, while still explaining the evidence that scientists use to explain it. The only complaint I have is that this book lacks depth, and only gives a very basic explanation of the various theories. I will likely further my reading, as this topic interests me greatly.

I am disappointed to see so many 1-star reviews, simply because people don't like anything that dares question their evolution theories. It's sad to see such closed-mindedness (not that the other end of the spectrum is any less guilty), though I suppose it can't be helped.

Regardless, I found this to be a very helpful introductory material to the subject of evolution and the many theories surrounding it. I hope to delve deeper into the subject via further reading. I would recommend to this to any high school student or even someone in their early years of college who want a glimpse at both sides of the topic. "

amazon.com

however even if it gets a 1 star, I wouldn't know because I technically haven't read it. And much of us have not either, so until you get a copy (which I was already doing as of yesterday), we really can't say.

Yeah, there's nobody better to get to review a science book than a tenth-grade student.

 

[Subduction Zone]

please go on, I am curious what was not "critical thinking" or like the others was this just a blanketed attack on something different.

To be proper critical thinking the process would have to be aimed at any alternatives. And that as I said could be dangerous. The errors in ID are huge if you look at ID critically. It could seriously harm students who were not aware how foolish those beliefs are ahead of time.

It brings to mind many many years ago when I saw Pee Wee Herman's Big Adventure in the movie theater. I knew it was a stupid movie but the constant onslaught of humor overpowered me and I could not stop laughing. The same could happen to innocent students exposed to the true foolishness of creationism for the first time.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Urrk, I did not even really read the review. A clueless tenth grader who was brought up with false beliefs. No wonder he liked this horribly flawed book.

I know it has to be horribly flawed from the errors I told you that could be seen just from the "peek inside" option.

 

[EternalDragon]

To be proper critical thinking the process would have to be aimed at any alternatives. And that as I said could be dangerous. The errors in ID are huge if you look at ID critically. It could seriously harm students who were not aware how foolish those beliefs are ahead of time.

It brings to mind many many years ago when I saw Pee Wee Herman's Big Adventure in the movie theater. I knew it was a stupid movie but the constant onslaught of humor overpowered me and I could not stop laughing. The same could happen to innocent students exposed to the true foolishness of creationism for the first time.

That's what happens to me every time I read one of your posts.