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What Would Falsify the Flood?

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OllieFranz

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You may think that is the way it is but it isn't. Why would one scientist draw inferences and another already have a conclusion? If science is only about natural laws and allows no religion or whatever in, then their conclusion is that things happen through natural causes. They then draw inferences based on that first conclusion.

Otherwise they would see ID in all the holes in evolution theory.

By the way, how can you come to an inference without a conclusion first? Or rather without a presupposition first? For instance, you develope a good microscope and find a flagellum to be a tiny nanomachine that no human to date could construct that has the exact same characteristics of a machine that humans would and do build. Also one that without such a biological machine the main virus would cease to function. What would be the only conclusion? Or do you make up a way for it to fit your presumption?

Suppose you watched a game on TV (sports, or abstract strategy, like chess, whatever catches your fancy), and wanted to know all about it. There is a book written by the person who invented the game, but it focuses more on his relationship with his family than on the game, and only mentions some of the moves in passing, without explaining the rule that makes them possible. So you start watching more games on TV and making observations. You notice that when certain conditions apply a particular rule always happens, and when other conditions occur, another play never happens. Slowly you build up some idea what the rules are. You may occasionally get a rule slightly wrong, but eventually correct it. This is science. It examines rules, using examples of actual plays, because there is no rulebook.

Yes, there has to be starting assumptions. There are two. First, if there are more than one possible explanations, assume the simpler one. If later developments require it, you can always consider the more complicated one later. That is why we accepted Newtonian physics for so long before we switched to Relativity. Even now, we use the Newtonian equations more often than the Relativity ones, because they are easier and most of the time they give the same answer (within the margin of error of our measuring devices).

The other is to assume that we are talking about the normal rules of natural law. Supernatural events are ignored, because they are "cheating" and do not help us to understand the rules. If a children's coach allows the occasional "do-over" it does not follow the rules, and does not help us to understand them.

Your assumption that anything we can't completely understand is proof of a supernatural interference in Nature is not science. It is giving up on the search for knowledge.
 
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CabVet

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Maybe. So tell me where an old desert Nomad sheep herder with a stutter got to be such a prolific writer as to write the entire history of Israel? Down to the genealogy, precise creation details, numerous laws, etc.? He must have been one awesome dude.

"Precise creation details", really? With Genesis 1 and 2 telling different stories? Light coming before the sun? Plants coming before the sun? A genealogy with common names from the period? Come on.
 
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Loudmouth

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Maybe. So tell me where an old desert Nomad sheep herder with a stutter got to be such a prolific writer as to write the entire history of Israel?

Show me that he did.

Down to the genealogy, precise creation details, numerous laws, etc.? He must have been one awesome dude.

Where did you show that the genealogies are correct, and that creation occurred like the Bible claims?

Back to the topic.

If someone is going to claim that the evidence supports a recent global flood then they must also be prepared to show how a recent global flood is falsifiable. IOW, if any possible observation supports the flood, then no observation supports the flood. The flood needs to be falsifiable in order for people to claim that they have evidence that supports it.

Therefore, the question is simple and mainly aimed at YEC's who claim that a recent global flood is supported by the evidence. What features would a geologic feature need in order to falsify a recent global flood?
 
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CabVet

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Clearly there is only one thing that would falsify the Flood.

A minister walks through the desert and comes upon a bush that burns and is not consumed and out of the bush he hears a voice saying:

'You have the whole flood thing wrong....'

I don't think even that would falsify it. They would just claim it was from the devil:

Deuteronomy 4:2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take anything from it.
 
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EternalDragon

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Simple, there are many free-living bacteria with flagella, so flagellum came first, stomach parasitism later. Regardless, the latest evidence suggests that the flagellum is not even that important for their survival in the stomach anyways:

H. pylori alters its environment to move through the stomach | Ars Technica

Now that this, along with all other "ID" arguments that you posted here were debunked, feel free to ignore our responses and move on to the next.

In other words evolutiondidit. There is no problem too great for the magic to happen.
 
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CabVet

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In other words evolutiondidit. There is no problem too great for the magic to happen.

Oh, so everything that you don't understand is magic now? Good to know.

FYI, if you dedicated about 40 hours to read the basic principles of evolution you would see there is nothing "magic" about it. Anyone can understand it.
 
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EternalDragon

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"Precise creation details", really? With Genesis 1 and 2 telling different stories? Light coming before the sun? Plants coming before the sun? A genealogy with common names from the period? Come on.

Different stories? Gen. 2 is a detail of day 6 of creation. Same story, more detail.

Yes, light came before the sun. Light from God. It made Moses' face glow for quite a few days. Plants were created a day before the sun. And the problem?

Common names? What were they supposed to be? Smith? Johnson? or like Xenoflavin? or something? I'm sure common names flowed from Adam to Noah to Moses' day. It's not hard to believe.
 
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CabVet

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I guess that is what others perpetuate when they type "Goddidit" then.

They pretend God doesn't exist.

Not in the slightest. "God did it" is the strongest response a religious person can give to anybody that questions their faith. This response is not falsifiable. Think about it.
 
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AV1611VET

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It's not hard to believe.

They're not called "unbelievers" for nothing, ED -- sad to say.

It is one of the most accurate and apropos terms around.
 
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CabVet

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They're not called "unbelievers" for nothing, ED -- sad to say.

It is one of the most accurate and apropos terms around.

Yeah, you are both right. No faith is needed to believe in Jesus and God. That's what the Bible says. It says it's easier to be a believer.
 
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HitchSlap

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Maybe. So tell me where an old desert Nomad sheep herder with a stutter got to be such a prolific writer as to write the entire history of Israel? Down to the genealogy, precise creation details, numerous laws, etc.? He must have been one awesome dude.

Well, he had plenty of help, for starters. You are aware that G1 & G2 were written by two different people about 300 years apart.
 
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EternalDragon

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Well, he had plenty of help, for starters. You are aware that G1 & G2 were written by two different people about 300 years apart.

And that matters why? (If true yet no citations were listed which qualifies as a sin according to Subduction Zone.)
 
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AV1611VET

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Yeah, you are both right. No faith is needed to believe in Jesus and God. That's what the Bible says. It says it's easier to be a believer.

Well, when the Gospel message is for scientists as well as aborigines, adults as well as children, and skeptics as well as seekers, what makes you exempt?
 
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AV1611VET

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You are aware that G1 & G2 were written by two different people about 300 years apart.
You are aware that the same person could have written them about 300 years apart as well, are you not?
 
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CabVet

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Well, when the Gospel message is for scientists as well as aborigines, adults as well as children, and skeptics as well as seekers, what makes you exempt?

Nothing makes me exempt and I never said that. I simply refuted yours and ED's claim that it is "easy to believe". Even the Bible says it is not, and that brings me to the related Bible verse of the day.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
 
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