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An atheists world (2)

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AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
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Good. Admitting your nonsense comes from fevered dreams is a start to a cure.
Oh, my!

Don't use "fever" in the same sentence as "cure!"

That sets my feet to moving!

[youtube]QVSVMTrNHDM[/youtube]
 
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createdtoworship

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subduction zone said:
Again, it depends upon which sort of ID you believe in. ID originally was creationism in sheep's clothing. Check on the history of it. Now ID means everything from guided evolution to straight YECism.

well, ID is the core, and the ofshoots of it varies. But YEC contains some ID but ID not YEC.

it's rather simple.

But I see that AV has revealed some discrepancy with the term Big Bang.

thats interesting, are we to kick it out of school now?lol
 
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createdtoworship

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subduction zone said:
Evolution is a very well defined and understood concept in the scientific world. It is not scientists fault if ignorant people have their own definition of it.

And if atheism is a bad term then so is Christianity. In atheism most are not "fundamentalists". In other words most do not believe in gods simply because there is no evidence for gods. If evidence was found they would probably quickly change their minds. Very few are deniers of god because they hate the idea of god.

In other words when Christians accuse atheists of "hating God" they are usually, but not always, wrong.

well the point being that we can agree on is that atheism has changed meanings, and so has evolution. So ID changing and evolving is no new thing.
 
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Subduction Zone

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well, ID is the core, and the ofshoots of it varies. But YEC contains some ID but ID not YEC.

it's rather simple.

But I see that AV has revealed some discrepancy with the term Big Bang.

thats interesting, are we to kick it out of school now?lol


At any rate ID, YEC, OEC, it does not really matter since they are all demonstrably in error.

The so called flaw that AV found in the Big Bang theory is only an error in his understanding combined with his lack of humor.
 
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Subduction Zone

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well the point being that we can agree on is that atheism has changed meanings, and so has evolution. So ID changing and evolving is no new thing.

How so? Atheism has always been a lack of belief in god. It has been associated more or less with the more strident members, but the most strident members do not get to define what anything is. Luckily all Christians don't follow the beliefs of the Westboro Baptist Church.

The changes in evolution have been relatively minor and are more of a fine tuning of the theory than anything else. Darwin is respected in the same way that Newton was. Neither was 100% correct in their science, but considering the state of science at that time their work is quite amazing.
 
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Valiantis

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First of all, what you see today is not what the Intelligent Designer designed.

Second of all, the Intelligent Designer is going to restore what He designed back to its full intelligence and design.

Haven't you stated that the Intelligent Designer of ID isn't supposed to be any specific deity? Why are you giving him decidedly Christian attributes?
How can anyone in their right minds believe that ID nonsense.

I guess they are going to let that one slide because they do not have an answer,
so it is back to the old lie and move on routine, they are even unable to admit to themselves when they tell lies.
 
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createdtoworship

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How so? Atheism has always been a lack of belief in god. It has been associated more or less with the more strident members, but the most strident members do not get to define what anything is. Luckily all Christians don't follow the beliefs of the Westboro Baptist Church.

The changes in evolution have been relatively minor and are more of a fine tuning of the theory than anything else. Darwin is respected in the same way that Newton was. Neither was 100% correct in their science, but considering the state of science at that time their work is quite amazing.

well dictionaries and such didn't say that until recently, they said "believe in no God"
here is a link by craig into flews quotes and others as to other definitions of atheism.


Read more: Definition of atheism | Reasonable Faith
 
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createdtoworship

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At any rate ID, YEC, OEC, it does not really matter since they are all demonstrably in error.

thats like saying that A=B=C because they are not numbers. An error in logic. But I understand that you do not believe any of them are correct.

The so called flaw that AV found in the Big Bang theory is only an error in his understanding combined with his lack of humor.

I thought it was very insightful to point out the flaws in the Big Bang definitions, but be it as it may.....if they are errors in interpretation....we may say the same for your views of OEC, YEC, ID, BC etc.
 
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createdtoworship

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Certain atheists in the mid-twentieth century were promoting the so-called “presumption of atheism.” At face value, this would appear to be the claim that in the absence of evidence for the existence of God, we should presume that God does not exist. Atheism is a sort of default position, and the theist bears a special burden of proof with regard to his belief that God exists.

So understood, such an alleged presumption is clearly mistaken. For the assertion that “There is no God” is just as much a claim to knowledge as is the assertion that “There is a God.” Therefore, the former assertion requires justification just as the latter does. It is the agnostic who makes no knowledge claim at all with respect to God’s existence. He confesses that he doesn’t know whether there is a God or whether there is no God.

But when you look more closely at how protagonists of the presumption of atheism used the term “atheist,” you discover that they were defining the word in a non-standard way, synonymous with “non-theist." So understood the term would encompass agnostics and traditional atheists, along with those who think the question meaningless (verificationists). As Antony Flew confesses,

the word ‘atheist’ has in the present context to be construed in an unusual way. Nowadays it is normally taken to mean someone who explicitly denies the existence . . . of God . . . But here it has to be understood not positively but negatively, with the originally Greek prefix ‘a-’ being read in this same way in ‘atheist’ as it customarily is in . . . words as ‘amoral’ . . . . In this interpretation an atheist becomes not someone who positively asserts the non-existence of God, but someone who is simply not a theist. (A Companion to Philosophy of Religion, ed. Philip Quinn and Charles Taliaferro [Oxford: Blackwell, 1997], s.v. “The Presumption of Atheism,” by Antony Flew)

Such a re-definition of the word “atheist” trivializes the claim of the presumption of atheism, for on this definition, atheism ceases to be a view. It is merely a psychological state which is shared by people who hold various views or no view at all. On this re-definition, even babies, who hold no opinion at all on the matter, count as atheists! In fact, our cat Muff counts as an atheist on this definition, since she has (to my knowledge) no belief in God.

Read more: Definition of atheism | Reasonable Faith
 
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Hammster

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MOD HAT ON
Harry_Anderson.jpg


Due to some troll activity (yes, THAT troll), a thread clean up has occurred.
MOD HAT OFF
 
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Lethe

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Yep, they do not get it. All of their evidence for mutations and retrovirus only shows that creation is in a fallen state and in need of redemption. Darwin struggles with this when he lost his daughter because there was nothing in his theory that offered him any comfort.


Yeap. We don't get smashing and beating every observation to confirm your presuppositions. How dare us.

I like that you feel that a good theory should be an emotional security blanket. Yeah, that's the sign of truth: it makes you feel better. One more reason you will never be a scientist.
 
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HitchSlap

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Certain atheists in the mid-twentieth century were promoting the so-called “presumption of atheism.” At face value, this would appear to be the claim that in the absence of evidence for the existence of God, we should presume that God does not exist. Atheism is a sort of default position, and the theist bears a special burden of proof with regard to his belief that God exists.

So understood, such an alleged presumption is clearly mistaken. For the assertion that “There is no God” is just as much a claim to knowledge as is the assertion that “There is a God.” Therefore, the former assertion requires justification just as the latter does. It is the agnostic who makes no knowledge claim at all with respect to God’s existence. He confesses that he doesn’t know whether there is a God or whether there is no God.

But when you look more closely at how protagonists of the presumption of atheism used the term “atheist,” you discover that they were defining the word in a non-standard way, synonymous with “non-theist." So understood the term would encompass agnostics and traditional atheists, along with those who think the question meaningless (verificationists). As Antony Flew confesses,

the word ‘atheist’ has in the present context to be construed in an unusual way. Nowadays it is normally taken to mean someone who explicitly denies the existence . . . of God . . . But here it has to be understood not positively but negatively, with the originally Greek prefix ‘a-’ being read in this same way in ‘atheist’ as it customarily is in . . . words as ‘amoral’ . . . . In this interpretation an atheist becomes not someone who positively asserts the non-existence of God, but someone who is simply not a theist. (A Companion to Philosophy of Religion, ed. Philip Quinn and Charles Taliaferro [Oxford: Blackwell, 1997], s.v. “The Presumption of Atheism,” by Antony Flew)

Such a re-definition of the word “atheist” trivializes the claim of the presumption of atheism, for on this definition, atheism ceases to be a view. It is merely a psychological state which is shared by people who hold various views or no view at all. On this re-definition, even babies, who hold no opinion at all on the matter, count as atheists! In fact, our cat Muff counts as an atheist on this definition, since she has (to my knowledge) no belief in God.

Read more: Definition of atheism | Reasonable Faith
Until such time as you can offer evidence of a god/s, reason, logic and good conscience dictates I accept the null hypothesis.
 
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Lethe

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Until such time as you can offer evidence of a god/s, reason, logic and good conscience dictates I accept the null hypothesis.
"fail to reject the null hypothesis."

My multivariate stats prof would definitely have smacked that down.
 
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createdtoworship

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Haven't you stated that the Intelligent Designer of ID isn't supposed to be any specific deity? Why are you giving him decidedly Christian attributes?

well there are a lot of different versions of creationism, not ID. ID is basic and even some athiests and or evolutionists accept ID. But some creationists use ID arguments, and thus some people think they are ID but they are not, nor is ID , BC-creationism (BC, i.e. Biblical creationism).

is that clear as mud for ya?
 
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createdtoworship

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Until such time as you can offer evidence of a god/s, reason, logic and good conscience dictates I accept the null hypothesis.

I was just finding it odd that athiesm literally means not a theist. A null position as you put it, then my dog molly would be an athiest, or my other dog -puggy, or charlie (my third dog)......all athiests by definition. This is not meant to strawman anyone, it's just a fact....by the very definition. This is what I was talking about when I mention the definition of athiesm changing over time.
 
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lasthero

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well there are a lot of different versions of creationism, not ID. ID is basic and even some athiests and or evolutionists accept ID. But some creationists use ID arguments, and thus some people think they are ID but they are not, nor is ID , BC-creationism (BC, i.e. Biblical creationism).

is that clear as mud for ya?

That wasn't the point.

ED has, before, claimed that the intelligent designer in ID isn't supposed to be the Christian god.

That's why I find it odd when he gives the Intelligent Designer characteristics that sound distinctly like the Christian god.
 
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