Name a doctrine that you used to believe in but dont anymore.

[Knee V]

And I'm sure that you understand that we believe that it is the truth inside the material, and not the material itself, that makes it uncommon?

Of course.

 

[Knee V]

And I'm sure that you understand that we believe that it is the truth inside the material, and not the material itself, that makes it uncommon?

I certainly understand that even though you don't see it as the actual body and blood of Christ, you still see it as significant and special and meaningful.

 

[bornofGod888]

Well, Esau made himself a servant to Jacob when he traded his birthright for some lentil stew for one.

I expected that answer. How did Esau's selling of his birthright make him Jacob's servant? On what basis would you make such a claim? Do you have any Biblical support to back this claim? Also, as has already been documented, neither of the passages which Paul cited in Romans chapter 9 in relation to Jacob and Esau had to do with the individuals. No, instead, they both had to do with the nations that came from them, Israel and Edom.

Biblical Election: Do Sin Loving Evil Doers Choose a Holy God or Does a Holy God Choose Sinners? - YouTube

Here is a video to reply to your videos on the subject of election. It is only fair that you watch it, yes?

Reply?

Have you watched the videos that I linked to?

If not, then how is this a "reply"?

No worries. I've always watched videos, read books, listened to sermons, etc. from the heretical opposition to see where they get their errors from and to try to help them be delivered from the same, so watching and listening to one more heretic speak won't kill me, I suppose. After all, it hasn't killed me yet on this forum.

Btw, my self-requested ban should have gone into effect last night, so I'm off to inquire about that...

 

[Cappadocious]

And I'm sure that you understand that we believe that it is the truth inside the material, and not the material itself, that makes it uncommon?

Sounds a lot like popular neoplatonic religion.

 

[nephilimiyr]

So then you would have no problem with icon veneration, right?

I don't persay, but when I see someone venerateing an icon, when truth be told, the real thing is right there inside you, I see either ignorance or pride. An icon is something meant to replace the real thing to bring back rememberance, just like pictures. It's a picture of the persons son, but it's not his son, it's a picture. But when you can have the real thing, why chose the picture?

Pictures are great, but they don't hug, they don't kiss, and they don't speak. Much like any icon, they don't do much but bring back old memories. The real thing does much more than bring back memories, it brings real experience, real relationship.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Sounds a lot like popular neoplatonic religion.

Well now that I know you think of yourself as real learned, um, well, good for you. I'm sure everyone here is real impressed.

 

[Knee V]

I don't persay, but when I see someone venerateing an icon, when truth be told, the real thing is right there inside you. An icon is something meant to replace the real thing to bring back rememberance, just like pictures. It's a picture of the persons son, but it's not his son, it's a picture. But when you can have the real thing, why chose the picture?

Pictures are great, but they don't hug, they don't kiss, and they don't speak. Much like any icon, they don't do much but bring back old memories. The real thing does much more than bring back memories, they bring real experience, real relationship.

I agree with many of your sentiments. An icon can't replace the "real thing". But that is not what they are for. Rather, they serve as a visual reminder that the real thing really is the real thing and that it is right here with us.

 

[nephilimiyr]

I agree with many of your sentiments. An icon can't replace the "real thing". But that is not what they are for. Rather, they serve as a visual reminder that the real thing really is the real thing and that it is right here with us.

Well, frankly, if I need visual reminders to remind me of my faith, then perhaps I should look deep and hard on whether I really have a faith. If I have to look towards icons to convince me that what is true and real is really true and real, then my faith is on shaky ground. Our faith is based on believeing in the unseen, not the seen. Inputeing the seen into faith makes it a lesser form of faith.

Why do you need the seen for you to know what is really in you?

 

[Knee V]

Well, frankly, if I need visual reminders to remind me of my faith, then perhaps I should look deep and hard on whether I really have a faith. If I have to look towards icons to convince me that what is true and real is really true and real, then my faith is on shaky ground. Our faith is based on believeing in the unseen, not the seen. Inputeing the seen into faith makes it a lesser form of faith.

Why do you need the seen to know what is really in you?

God gave us 5 senses, and he has given us things that engage all 5 of our senses in our worship.

The first several verses of 1Jn would disageee with your opinion on this. Our faith is based on what is seen and touched, as the invisible God entered creation and became what we can see and touch and smell and hear and taste.

 

[Cappadocious]

Well now that I know you think of yourself as real learned, um, well, good for you. I'm sure everyone here is real impressed.

I'm pretty sure you and everyone else know what neoplatonism is.

You know, inner light, transcendent spiritual (read: nonphysical) reality surpassing the material, simple being better than complex. That sort of jazz.

 

[Gnarwhal]

God gave us 5 senses, and he has given us things that engage all 5 of our senses in our worship.

Anything less, and worship is just "senseless".

 

[nephilimiyr]

God gave us 5 senses, and he has given us things that engage all 5 of our senses in our worship.

The first several verses of 1Jn would disageee with your opinion on this. Our faith is based on what is seen and touched, as the invisible God entered creation and became what we can see and touch and smell and hear and taste.

No, the first several verses of 1 John do not disagree with me. If our faith is based on not only what we see but what we touch and smell, and feel then none of us have any real faith since we now can't touch, smell, physically feel, or see Jesus Christ. And icons don't do all of that for you either.

 

[nephilimiyr]

I'm pretty sure you and everyone else know what neoplatonism is.

You know, inner light, transcendent spiritual (read: nonphysical) reality surpassing the material, simple being better than complex. That sort of jazz.

Please, no, I never heard of the term and had to look it up just to know what you were talking about. And everything else you are talking about here is way too out there for me to comment further. I'd probably get a head acke just thinking about it.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Anything less, and worship is just "senseless".

Well, can we and should we engage all of our senses in worship? Yes. Should we base our faith on what all of our senses tell us? NO.

 

[Going Merry]

i dont believe its required to practice communion anymore

 

[Rev Randy]

No, the first several verses of 1 John do not disagree with me. If our faith is based on not only what we see but what we touch and smell, and feel then none of us have any real faith since we now can't touch, smell, physically feel, or see Jesus Christ. And icons don't do all of that for you either.

Faith is faith and worship is worship. They are not the same thing.
I know of no Christian group that does not do things to get people in a better mind for worship.
With great faith or with little faith, mankind needs to be focused as our minds tend to follow our needs and desires foremost. Worship is not about our needs and desires. It's about God's desire. So some us us use things that touch our senses to get us focused on God and not on our problems.
When I was a baptist we had a specific chorus we sang to get us focused. The biggest difference I noticed was that the baptists did not understand that that chorus was holy. Odd as it was a directly from the Psalter.

 

[Tzaousios]

Well now that I know you think of yourself as real learned, um, well, good for you. I'm sure everyone here is real impressed.

What is that supposed to mean? Because someone mentions "Neoplatonic" they are all of a sudden "real learned" and are demanding respect?

 

[Rev Randy]

What is that supposed to mean? Because someone mentions "Neoplatonic" they are all of a sudden "real learned" and are demanding respect?

All that time in school was wasted time. I could have just mentioned "neoplatonic" three times and been a genius.

 

[MoreCoffee]

All that time in school was wasted time. I could have just mentioned "neoplatonic" three times and been a genius.

heh heh heh

One is always wise in one's own eyes

 

[Rev Randy]

heh heh heh

One are always wise in one's own eyes

Yes my eyeglasses are so thick I can see the future through them.