The books of Hebrews and Revelation prove the unchangeableness of God's Holy Law. (2)

[Stryder06]

Two possibilities:

• You haven't read the context.
• You have concluded God is an unbeliever.

Neither one of these shows any ability to reconcile SDA doctrine with God's promises to us, His redeemed. Furthermore, admitting that "Those who don't obey the gospel would be unbelievers" illustrates what I pointed out earlier...




...and here it is!

• Addresses only the 'professed people of God', and is not a general judgment

It is obvious that you don't understand the IJ doctrine.

Or that you asked the wrong question. Peter says judgment begins at the house of God. The IJ is about the wrapping up of said judgment.

You admitted that you can't find Biblical support for the IJ. You might as well stop where you are.

When did I make such an admission? Please point to it specifically. If you can't than this is nothing more than a sad attempt to discredit me, and ignore the parts of the bible I pointed you to.

 

[MoreCoffee]

You could say that. I myself thought she was a prophet, but then I read a passage where she said she wasn't. Many people get angry about her saying that her work involved more than what a prophet's did, but the way I see it, if she says she wasn't a prophet, than we shouldn't say that she was.

What passages includes the statement that she is not a prophet?

 

[VictorC]

Or that you asked the wrong question. Peter says judgment begins at the house of God. The IJ is about the wrapping up of said judgment.

So you've found a judgment by unbelievers persecuting the church -which doesn't determine salvation anyway- and you've lumped God in with the unbelievers, because you think God is an unbeliever in His own promises.
I see it so clearly now. Whooda thunk it would be so easy to see?

When did I make such an admission? Please point to it specifically. If you can't than this is nothing more than a sad attempt to discredit me, and ignore the parts of the bible I pointed you to.

I left you with three distinct lines of questions, none of which you have provided an answer for. Unless you can address them, looking at the denials in your posts is a waste of time.

 

[Stryder06]

What passages includes the statement that she is not a prophet?

"Early in my youth I was asked several times, Are you a prophet? I have ever responded, I am the Lord's messenger. I know that many have called me a prophet, but I have made no claim to this title. My Saviour declared me to be his messenger. 'Your work,' he instructed me, 'is to bear my word. ... It is not you that speaketh: it is the Lord that giveth the messages of warning and reproof. Never deviate from the truth under any circumstances . Give the light I shall give you. The messages for these last days shall be written in books, and shall stand immortalized, to testify against those who have once rejoiced in the light, but who have been led to give it up because of the seductive influences of evil.' Why have I not claimed to be a prophet?--Because in these days many who boldly claim that they are prophets are a reproach to the cause of Christ; and because my work includes much more than the word 'prophet' signifies." (Review and Herald, July 26, 1907)

 

[Stryder06]

So you've found a judgment by unbelievers persecuting the church -which doesn't determine salvation anyway- and you've lumped God in with the unbelievers, because you think God is an unbeliever in His own promises.
I see it so clearly now. Whooda thunk it would be so easy to see?

God is the one doing the judging. Peter isn't talking about being persecuted by the unbeliever.

Sadly you make too many assumptions and work too desperately to twist what is being shown to you. As I said before, you have a very narrow perspective of what judgment is.

I left you with three distinct lines of questions, none of which you have provided an answer for. Unless you can address them, looking at the denials in your posts is a waste of time.

The first questions you asked were in reference to the IJ, which I told you could be found in the sanctuary, the book of Daniel, and the book of Revelation. The thrid quesiton you asked was how do I reconcile God judging His people, and I showed you the text that clearly states God judgment was to begin at the house of God.

 

[VictorC]

God is the one doing the judging.

False.

Peter isn't talking about being persecuted by the unbeliever.

False.

Sadly you make too many assumptions and work too desperately to twist what is being shown to you. As I said before, you have a very narrow perspective of what judgment is.



The first questions you asked were in reference to the IJ, which I told you could be found in the sanctuary, the book of Daniel, and the book of Revelation. The thrid quesiton you asked was how do I reconcile God judging His people, and I showed you the text that clearly states God judgment was to begin at the house of God.

Three lines of questions, Stryder.
Ante up or shut up.

 

[Stryder06]

False.

True

False.

True

Three lines of questions, Stryder.
Ante up or shut up.

Sanctuary. Daniel. Revelation

 

[from scratch]

"Early in my youth I was asked several times, Are you a prophet? I have ever responded, I am the Lord's messenger. I know that many have called me a prophet, but I have made no claim to this title. My Saviour declared me to be his messenger. 'Your work,' he instructed me, 'is to bear my word. ... It is not you that speaketh: it is the Lord that giveth the messages of warning and reproof. Never deviate from the truth under any circumstances . Give the light I shall give you. The messages for these last days shall be written in books, and shall stand immortalized, to testify against those who have once rejoiced in the light, but who have been led to give it up because of the seductive influences of evil.' Why have I not claimed to be a prophet?--Because in these days many who boldly claim that they are prophets are a reproach to the cause of Christ; and because my work includes much more than the word 'prophet' signifies." (Review and Herald, July 26, 1907)

If I didn't know better this sounds much like establishing authority not found or provided for in the Bible read to mean having more authority than the Bible.

 

[from scratch]

I'm thinking you must have made that up, because Peter says that if we barely pass the judgment, what will happen to those who don't obey the gospel. Those who don't obey the gospel would be unbelievers.

Is this code for what will happen to those who don't obey the Ten Commandments? I think so.

 

[from scratch]

Isn't it also forbidden to bare false witness. I'm not looking for converts. Wheter they agree or not is on them, but I would at least prefer for one not say we teach something we don't.

If you say so. Now, maybe you should ask yourself the same question. I've been around a while and see right through veiled curtains. IOW smoke screens no longer have much affect.

 

[MoreCoffee]

"Early in my youth I was asked several times, Are you a prophet? I have ever responded, I am the Lord's messenger. I know that many have called me a prophet, but I have made no claim to this title. My Saviour declared me to be his messenger. 'Your work,' he instructed me, 'is to bear my word. ... It is not you that speaketh: it is the Lord that giveth the messages of warning and reproof. Never deviate from the truth under any circumstances . Give the light I shall give you. The messages for these last days shall be written in books, and shall stand immortalized, to testify against those who have once rejoiced in the light, but who have been led to give it up because of the seductive influences of evil.' Why have I not claimed to be a prophet?--Because in these days many who boldly claim that they are prophets are a reproach to the cause of Christ; and because my work includes much more than the word 'prophet' signifies." (Review and Herald, July 26, 1907)

A very interesting passage isn't it. She makes the claim to be God's messenger and also that her work - presumably the work of being a messenger - includes much more than the word 'prophet' signifies. I do not mean to push you on this topic since it is a side-light to the main discussion in this thread but it seems to me that Ellen White is claiming to be more than a prophet, do you concur?

 

[Sophrosyne]

A very interesting passage isn't it. She makes the claim to be God's messenger and also that her work - presumably the work of being a messenger - includes much more than the word 'prophet' signifies. I do not mean to push you on this topic since it is a side-light to the main discussion in this thread but it seems to me that Ellen White is claiming to be more than a prophet, do you concur?

Seems ominous to me that someone would compare themselves to a prophet in the first place, say they were MORE than one secondly and then when someone calls her a prophet it is denied? The statement makes you consider her a super prophet or the likes IMO and in that subject to super scrutiny unlike normal prophets get.

 

[Stryder06]

A very interesting passage isn't it. She makes the claim to be God's messenger and also that her work - presumably the work of being a messenger - includes much more than the word 'prophet' signifies. I do not mean to push you on this topic since it is a side-light to the main discussion in this thread but it seems to me that Ellen White is claiming to be more than a prophet, do you concur?

I don't. I think she meant exactly what she said, and that is that her work is more involved than what the word "prophet" signifies.

 

[Stryder06]

Seems ominous to me that someone would compare themselves to a prophet in the first place, say they were MORE than one secondly and then when someone calls her a prophet it is denied? The statement makes you consider her a super prophet or the likes IMO and in that subject to super scrutiny unlike normal prophets get.

Or you could just take her for what she said she was, and that was a Messanger. But hey what fun would that be right?

 

[MoreCoffee]

I don't. I think she meant exactly what she said, and that is that her work is more involved than what the word "prophet" signifies.

Okay.

Do you think that anything Ellen White wrote was inspired in the same way as the apostles wrote inspired letters and books?

 

[Sophrosyne]

Or you could just take her for what she said she was, and that was a Messanger. But hey what fun would that be right?

That doesn't address the post made where she is compared to a prophet. How can one be more than a prophet without AT LEAST being a prophet in the first place? Also how can a messenger be more than a prophet if they are not a prophet also? I just don't get the comparison. We don't see any examples of "more than a prophet" in the Bible that are NOT a prophet also unless you can come up with one.

 

[VictorC]

Okay.

Do you think that anything Ellen White wrote was inspired in the same way as the apostles wrote inspired letters and books?

That doesn't address the post made where she is compared to a prophet. How can one be more than a prophet without AT LEAST being a prophet in the first place? Also how can a messenger be more than a prophet if they are not a prophet also? I just don't get the comparison. We don't see any examples of "more than a prophet" in the Bible that are NOT a prophet also unless you can come up with one.

I don't think we need to accept Stryder's contention over the terms used. "Messenger" and "prophet" can be interchanged as they both convey the meaning of divine inspiration. SDA authorities recognize this, and accept the usage of 'prophet' to describe Ellen White.

Seventh-day Adventist hold that EGW performed the work of a true prophet during the seventy years of her public ministry. As Samuel was a prophet, as Jermiah was a prophet, as John the Baptist, so we believe that Mrs. White was a prophet to the church of Christ today.

Seventh-day Adventists are uniquely fortunate in approaching the question of the inspiration of the prophets. We are not left to find our way, drawing all our conclusions from writings of two thousand years and more ago that have come down to us through varied transcriptions and translations. With us it is an almost contemporary matter, for we have had a prophet in our midst. It is generally granted by the careful student of her works that the experience of Ellen White was not different from that of the prophets of old ...
What is more, rather than having in our possession only relatively few chapters or a handful of letters, as is the case with the extant records of the Bible prophets, we have the full range of Ellen White writings penned through a period of seventy years ... Further, she wrote in the English language, so we are not confronted with problems of translation and only rarely with those of transcription.

I remember how Stryder convinced many of us that Ellen White wasn't inspired a few months ago, after subjecting her to a litmus test finding that she contradicted the Law's testimony, and there wasn't any light in her. From there all I have seen is denial over any number of sources, including himself.

 

[Stryder06]

Okay.

Do you think that anything Ellen White wrote was inspired in the same way as the apostles wrote inspired letters and books?

She calls her writings the lesser light. She wrote as she was instructed to. That's how I consider it. The bible is the ultimate authority. Her writings are meant to lead people back to the bible.

 

[MoreCoffee]

She calls her writings the lesser light. She wrote as she was instructed to. That's how I consider it. The bible is the ultimate authority. Her writings are meant to lead people back to the bible.

I see, but don't most evangelicals have bibles and use them?

 

[Stryder06]

That doesn't address the post made where she is compared to a prophet. How can one be more than a prophet without AT LEAST being a prophet in the first place? Also how can a messenger be more than a prophet if they are not a prophet also? I just don't get the comparison. We don't see any examples of "more than a prophet" in the Bible that are NOT a prophet also unless you can come up with one.

I guess it's a shame she died so long ago. She says she's not a prophet so I leave it at that. She says her works requires more than what the word prophet entailed, so I leave it at that.

As far as examples of people who "more than a prophet", which again she didn't say she was, you could look at the disciples. All of them prophesied, but none of them were prophets, and I would say their work extended beyond that which a prophet did.