A new video by Aron-Ra

[AV1611VET]

The rate of evolution is NOT constant, expecially when it comes to evolution based on selective pressures. Yes, you can develop a Molecular Clock based on random mutations and genetic drift, but selection can increase the speed of the clock drastically.

You are one one saying "anything can happen" with I.D. and you don't know anything at all about the designer, the mechanism used by the designeer, what exactly was designed, for what reason, or when.

Excuse me, Rocky.

I need you on Aisle 98,ff please.

Thank you.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Excuse me, Rocky.

I need you on Aisle 98,ff please.

Thank you.

Nobody enjoys repeating his errors as much as AV.

 

[lasthero]

Oh, one more thing, ED. I apologize, it's been a weird day, my mind is a little wobbly.

Do you still think that there was a time in recent history when humans only lived in Europe and the Americas? If so, how did you come to that conclusion?

 

[Loudmouth]

It's that and a lot of other things. For instance there is a limit to hereditary traits.

What are these limits?

Does evolution happens fast, slow or what? You know, I don't know why I bother asking questions when evolutionists just come up with "anything can happen" magical formulas or just resort to saying "we don't know as yet".

Evolution can happen at any many paces just like erosion can occur slowly or quickly. Just because erosion is occuring slowly in one place does not mean that erosion should occur slowly everywhere. The same for evolution.

Also, evolution can not produce violations of the nested hierarchy. Evolution produces a phylogenetic signal, and we test the theory by looking for that signal. For example, evolution can not take the feathers from a bird and add it to a new species of mammal. Adaptations can not move down a tree and then back up. Evolution can't do that.

At the same time, an intelligent designer could easily do that. An intelligent designer could take adaptations from all over the tree and combine them into a new species that does not fit into a nested hierarchy. In fact, humans have done that very thing in the organisms they design. For example, the Glofish is a genetically modified vertebrate fish that carries an exact copy of a jellyfish fluorescent protein. It is a CLEAR violation of the nested hierarchy, and humans easily performed the task. Add to that the fact that human designs do not fall into a nested hierarchy. Cars and planes do not fall into a nested hierarchy. Computers do not fall into a nested hierarchy. The signature of design is a LACK of a nested hierarchy. That is why the nested hierarchy evidences evolution and falsifies ID.

 

[EternalDragon]

Could you just go ahead and define what you think it is?

Also, I find it very strange that, I think, the top ten list you posted actually mentions punctuated equilibrium and gives some indication of what it is. It's almost like you didn't read the thing before you posted it. But nah.

And while I have your attention, here are some other questions.

Punctuated equilibrium (also called punctuated equilibria) is a theory in evolutionary biology which proposes that most species will exhibit little net evolutionary change for most of their geological history, remaining in an extended state called stasis.

Do you still think there was only one ice age, and that it happened in the last 6,000 years? If so, for how long did it occur? I believe you also said that the reason God gave animals the ability to adapt was so that they could survive such things, but you do realize that, even if an ice age hit, it would be quite long before animals started adapting to it. So with that in mind, when was this ice age, how long did it last, and why, praytell, is there absolutely no mention of it any literature from the past 6,000 years - not to mention the complete lack of an interruption in the agricultural age, which would have to happen if the entire planet was covered in ice.

Not according to Split Rock in a previous post. Obviously if there are extreme changes evolution happens very fast. That is what they said.

Plus your dates are a bit off. The ice age was not 6000 years ago but earlier. Plus the fact that it did not cover the southern parts where there would still be unfrozen land for farming.

Also, do you still think that evolution would make language development impossible, and that, if we traveled to another planet, we would expect aliens to be speaking human languages if evolution was true? If so, why do you think this?

I know this seems a little roundabout, but I'm illustrating a point. Bear with me.

If there was an earth like planet there is no reason to think that evolution as we understand it would operate any differently. Or that language would develop differently.

If you want my opinion, God gave us the ability for language. It was never developed over time. At some point God confounded the languages. That's why we don't all speak the same language.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Punctuated equilibrium (also called punctuated equilibria) is a theory in evolutionary biology which proposes that most species will exhibit little net evolutionary change for most of their geological history, remaining in an extended state called stasis.

Not according to Split Rock in a previous post. Obviously if there are extreme changes evolution happens very fast. That is what they said.

Plus your dates are a bit off. The ice age was not 6000 years ago but earlier. Plus the fact that it did not cover the southern parts where there would still be unfrozen land for farming.

If there was an earth like planet there is no reason to think that evolution as we understand it would operate any differently. Or that language would develop differently.

If you want my opinion, God gave us the ability for language. It was never developed over time. At some point God confounded the languages. That's why we don't all speak the same language.

There is no need to invoke God for the creation of languages. In fact all European languages are post year 1 AD. Most quite a bit post 1 AD.

 

[EternalDragon]

There is no need to invoke God for the creation of languages. In fact all European languages are post year 1 AD. Most quite a bit post 1 AD.

So these are brand new languages not based in any previous language?

 

[Lethe]

So these are brand new languages not based in any previous language?

Can you point to any language which was a brand new language not based on anything prior?

 

[EternalDragon]

Can you point to any language which was a brand new language not based on anything prior?

I assume you want language isolates?

Sumarian?

Albanian?

Armenian?

Greek?

Sardinian?

Basque?

Korean?

Ainu?

Burushaski?

There are others.....

 

[Subduction Zone]

I assume you want language isolates?

Sumarian?

Albanian?

Armenian?

Greek?

Sardinian?

Basque?

Korean?

Ainu?

Burushaski?

There are others.....

I am not an expert on language isolates, but it seems that they are simply the last remaining stand of a previous language. Since some of these have several dialects or even related languages it appears they formed in the same way that modern languages did. Basque is one example that has several dialects of that particular language.

 

[EternalDragon]

I am not an expert on language isolates, but it seems that they are simply the last remaining stand of a previous language. Since some of these have several dialects or even related languages it appears they formed in the same way that modern languages did. Basque is one example that has several dialects of that particular language.

Sorry but they are all individual languages that are not derived from any other language. They stand on their own as languages.

If humans diverged from some sort of ape ancestor and went from there, why is there not just one original language that all the rest derived from?

 

[Tnmusicman]

Seeing the thread of Aron-Ra's that was necroed came along at a very good time. He just released a new video. The creationists here could learn a lot from it:

Introducing Evolution at the 9th grade level - YouTube

How thoughtful of you!

 

[lasthero]

Punctuated equilibrium (also called punctuated equilibria) is a theory in evolutionary biology which proposes that most species will exhibit little net evolutionary change for most of their geological history, remaining in an extended state called stasis.

Good. But that is a state of evolution, not a barrier to it. So why did oyou think it was?

Obviously if there are extreme changes evolution happens very fast

'Fast' by evolutionary standards in still well over thousands of years. Sorry.

If there was an earth like planet there is no reason to think that evolution as we understand it would operate any differently. Or that language would develop differently.

Even if it did, even if these aliens, by some strange coincidence, went through the exact same path that we did, that would not would not explain why they have the same language. Why would beings on a different language and a different history speak like we do?

Also - you don't think that humans are an inevitable result of evolution, do you?

 

[lasthero]

I am not an expert on language isolates, but it seems that they are simply the last remaining stand of a previous language. Since some of these have several dialects or even related languages it appears they formed in the same way that modern languages did. Basque is one example that has several dialects of that particular language.

Sorry but they are all individual languages that are not derived from any other language. They stand on their own as languages.

If humans diverged from some sort of ape ancestor and went from there, why is there not just one original language that all the rest derived from?

Because, as they evolved and grew, they spread. What you're saying would only hold true if they were all living in the same community. And you also assume that this was when languages stared developing. There's no reason to think either of these things.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sorry but they are all individual languages that are not derived from any other language. They stand on their own as languages.

If humans diverged from some sort of ape ancestor and went from there, why is there not just one original language that all the rest derived from?

Wrong. That is an assumption on your part and a rather bad one at that.

As I pointed out many of these have several dialects or even different local language variants. Basque for example has several dialects. There is a unified Basque today, but that is a relatively recent construct. Just because you can't find the forerunners of a language does not mean that it does not have any. That would be an assumption that is not borne out of experience.

And as said before, it has been observed quite a few times that when groups speaking the same language get separated their own languages evolve. It is fairly easy to trace in the New World where all peoples came through one pathway fairly recently, in the last 13,000 years or so.

 

[CabVet]

Sorry but they are all individual languages that are not derived from any other language. They stand on their own as languages.

Many languages are derived from one another. Take for example all of the Latin ones: Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, French, etc, just to cite the most common ones, all of them share a common origin. Not only that, but the farther you are from the point of origin, the more different the language becomes. I know you are not going to look because you don't seem to be interested in facts, but here:

Romance languages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If humans diverged from some sort of ape ancestor and went from there, why is there not just one original language that all the rest derived from?

Isolation. Want a modern day example? Compare the English spoken in Australia, England and the US.

 

[USincognito]

Sorry but they are all individual languages that are not derived from any other language. They stand on their own as languages.

Not true. It only means that they cannot be connected to any other known language. Language isolates are a great example of how languages are a decent analogy to evolution especially hierarchies of relatedness.

Isolates analogize to orphan taxa or taxa that have few representatives today for example. Order Monotremata has only 4 representative species today. By contrast Order Rodentia has ~2300 species today. That doesn't mean Platypuses and the Echidna species popped into existance. They are survivors of what once was a widespread order and for quite some time, the only order of mammals.

If humans diverged from some sort of ape ancestor and went from there, why is there not just one original language that all the rest derived from?

Is this serious question? Humans have had language for hundreds of thousands of years based on the Brocca's region (this includes at least Neanderthals). For the majority of that time, we lived in isolated bands developing very primative though distinct cultures. Some survived, some died out. Some formed the very earliest cultures that gave us the great language families like Indo-European, Afro-Asiatic, Sino-Tibetan, etc.

Interestingly language families can cross pollenate in ways that animals cannot. Niger-Congo A is spoken by the Bantu peoples of central and southwest Africa. Khoisan is spoken by the people commonly known as Bushmen. Xhosa is a Bantu language spoken in South Africa that has borrowed consonant clicks from Khoisan and even borrowed words from Afrikaans.
Xhosa language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Almost all languages with clicks are Khoisan languages and the presence of clicks in Xhosa demonstrates the strong historical interaction with its Khoisan neighbours. An estimated 15% of the vocabulary is of Khoekhoe (Khoisan) origin.[7] In the modern period, Xhosa has also borrowed from both Afrikaans and English.​

 

[Naraoia]

Punctuated equilibrium (also called punctuated equilibria) is a theory in evolutionary biology which proposes that most species will exhibit little net evolutionary change for most of their geological history, remaining in an extended state called stasis.

Wikipedia works for me...

If there was an earth like planet there is no reason to think that evolution as we understand it would operate any differently.

That is true. However, there is a difference between evolution operating similarly and its specific outcomes being similar. Just how repeatable evolution is is still one of the major open questions in evolutionary biology.

I am not an expert on language isolates, but it seems that they are simply the last remaining stand of a previous language. Since some of these have several dialects or even related languages it appears they formed in the same way that modern languages did. Basque is one example that has several dialects of that particular language.

Not to mention that neither Greek nor Albanian are so isolated that we can't place them at all. They are both "isolates" within the Indo-European language group. And, of course, Greek has a pretty long written history tracing its evolution.

 

[Tomk80]

Not to mention that neither Greek nor Albanian are so isolated that we can't place them at all. They are both "isolates" within the Indo-European language group. And, of course, Greek has a pretty long written history tracing its evolution.

Adding to that, from sign languages and their development, we know that languages can develop without any outside influence. Place deaf children with each other and they will develop a new sign language from scratch. This sign language will be a language isolate. Given that sign languages are very similar to normal languages, with the same brain centers involved, there is no reason to think normal languages and language isolates couldn't start in the same way.

 

[Naraoia]

Adding to that, from sign languages and their development, we know that languages can develop without any outside influence. Place deaf children with each other and they will develop a new sign language from scratch. This sign language will be a language isolate. Given that sign languages are very similar to normal languages, with the same brain centers involved, there is no reason to think normal languages and language isolates couldn't start in the same way.

Good point. Do you have any citations on the deaf kids? The story tickles my memory...