Finding limitations in Naturalism

[Michael]

Current in plasma doesn't travel in straight lines, so why on *Earth* would I expect, let alone *require* that current travel in straight lines in complex liquid/solid structures of a brain?

 

[Michael]

You think galactic superclusters function like neurons because you found a simulated image that looks vaguely like a stain of a mouse neuron? Do I really have to say how completely insane that sounds?

FYI, in terms of cosmology theory in general, the idea I'm proposing is not all that "insane" at all. In fact the only thing that might save us from such things forming in space is apparently "string theory" of all things.

String theory may limit space brain threat - physics-math - 22 May 2013 - New Scientist

 

[Michael]

This quote from Sagan that Justatruthseeker posted in another thread seems very appropriate for this thread as well. While naturalism is a useful tool, it does ultimately have it's limits. Sometimes a little "faith" is also necessary to fully "explore" the universe around us.

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“If you are only skeptical, then no new ideas make it through to you. You become a crotchety old person convinced that nonsense is ruling the world. (There is, of course, much data to support you.) But every now and then, a new idea turns out to be on the mark, valid and wonderful. If you are too much in the habit of being skeptical about everything, you are going to miss or resent it, and either way you will be standing in the way of understanding and progress. “
—Carl Sagan



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[kellhus]

In terms of the layout of matter, and in terms of the voltage variations, and the flow of *current* through that material, they are similar. They not only *look* the same, they also have voltage variations between various structures, and currents that connect them altogether. It's not "sort" of like neural activity, a *lot* like neural activity.

So, myelin, sodium and potassium, voltage gated channel proteins, Na/K ATPase, action potentials, saltatory conduction? You're saying galactic superclusters have these features?

 

[Michael]

So, myelin, sodium and potassium, voltage gated channel proteins, Na/K ATPase, action potentials, saltatory conduction? You're saying galactic superclusters have these features?

It has voltage regulated structures, double layers, Birkeland currents and all the chemicals we find here on Earth. I'm not suggesting that plasma forms *exactly* the same structures that exist in a brain, but it does produce all sorts of similar features.

In fact it was Irving Langmuir, who had a background in biology, that gave plasma it's name. As he started researching the forth state of matter, he could not help but notice the similarities it had to biological structures, including the double layers that act like cell membranes. It was those very sort of cellular features that led him to coin the term "plasma". He immediately associated the behaviors of the forth state of matter with the behaviors and structures of blood plasma.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

It has voltage regulated structures, double layers, Birkeland currents and all the chemicals we find here on Earth. I'm not suggesting that plasma forms *exactly* the same structures that exist in a brain, but it does produce all sorts of similar features.

In fact it was Irving Langmuir, who had a background in biology, that gave plasma it's name. As he started researching the forth state of matter, he could not help but notice the similarities it had to biological structures, including the double layers that act like cell membranes. It was those very sort of cellular features that led him to coin the term "plasma". He immediately associated the behaviors of the forth state of matter with the behaviors and structures of blood plasma.

Isn't it just marvelous the way that works. Isn't it just marvelous that the addition of an electron or proton can create any number of compounds. Compounds found everywhere in the universe in vast numbers beyond counting. After all, is not those same electrons, neutrons and protons found in gold, the same electrons, neutrons and protons found in lead? Just different amounts, alignments and spacing (density). And one might add, the same electrons, neutrons and protons found in us, just different amounts, alignments and spacing (density).

 

[Davian]

FYI, in terms of cosmology theory in general, the idea I'm proposing is not all that "insane" at all. In fact the only thing that might save us from such things forming in space is apparently "string theory" of all things.

String theory may limit space brain threat - physics-math - 22 May 2013 - New Scientist

Did you read that article you linked to?

A "space brain" could happen? And if I dissolve a sugar cube into a glass of water, if I wait long enough, I can expect the molecules to randomly assemble themselves into the original shape.

Not that "insane" at all, you say.

 

[Michael]

Did you read that article you linked to?

Yes. Did you? If you did, you wouldn't be asking the next question:

A "space brain" could happen?

Yep.

And if I dissolve a sugar cube into a glass of water, if I wait long enough, I can expect the molecules to randomly assemble themselves into the original shape.

Probably not since you've dissolved it actually.

Not that "insane" at all, you say.

Compared to the three or four forms of metaphysical sky entities you're postulating, or something like string theory? Not at all!

 

[In situ]

the fact that currents flow in our brains

Get your "facts" right.

You have a transaxial release (flow) of ions in the axon of a nerve cells which cause a potential changes to travels downwards the axon like a wave, which in turn cause a release (flow) of chemicals substances at the axon terminals that in turn binds to receptors at other neurons which in turn cause a change of the internal chemistry in the receiving neuron which may, or may not, cause a new transaxial release of ions, and so on...

This is not best described as a current nor a flow... at best you have a flow of chemicals, but no current is to be found anywhere.

 

[ReverendDG]

FYI, in terms of cosmology theory in general, the idea I'm proposing is not all that "insane" at all. In fact the only thing that might save us from such things forming in space is apparently "string theory" of all things.

String theory may limit space brain threat - physics-math - 22 May 2013 - New Scientist

oh wow so you use an even more speculative idea with no real evidence to speak of as proof that your ideas aren't insane?

LOL, cool story bro.

by the logic of using that tripe, anything and everything is possible! no need for evidence or support for ideas, just ignore problems!

 

[ReverendDG]

Get your "facts" right.

You have a transaxial release (flow) of ions in the axon of a nerve cells which cause a potential changes to travels downwards the axon like a wave, which in turn cause a release (flow) of chemicals substances at the axon terminals that in turn binds to receptors at other neurons which in turn cause a change of the internal chemistry in the receiving neuron which may, or may not, cause a new transaxial release of ions, and so on...

This is not best described as a current nor a flow... at best you have a flow of chemicals, but no current is to be found anywhere.

LOL if his claim is true, why does sticking my finger in a light socket hurt? shouldn't that give my brain a tune-up?

 

[Michael]

This is not best described as a current nor a flow... at best you have a flow of chemicals, but no current is to be found anywhere.

Everyone else on the internet uses the term "current". Tell it to McGraw-Hill.

 

[Michael]

oh wow so you use an even more speculative idea with no real evidence to speak of as proof that your ideas aren't insane?

LOL, cool story bro.

by the logic of using that tripe, anything and everything is possible! no need for evidence or support for ideas, just ignore problems!

It's all relative. Compared to the mainstream literally *inventing* three new forms of metaphysical entities, it's definitely not "insane". Pretty much all cosmology concepts are "weird", including black holes, neutron stars, you name it.

 

[Loudmouth]

Apparently you can't comprehend what you read because they clearly state the flow of current in the opening paragraph and explain how it works in the rest of the video.

Any current is at a right angle to the propagation of the nerve impulse. It is explained quite well in that video. That you keep getting it wrong says a lot.

Apparently you seem to think that electrical energy in plasma typically travels in straight lines or something. I don't see any evidence that you learned anything from that video, and I see direct evidence that you closed your eyes (pure denial) to the information it contained.

Oh the irony.

Even in a Birkeland current, current doesn't travel in straight lines.

And out trots the one trick pony. Please, keep this garbage in the threads devoted to it.

 

[Loudmouth]

It has voltage regulated structures, double layers,

Please, show these to us and show how they are analogous to a nerve impulse.

 

[Loudmouth]

Michael,

If you insulated the entire axon there would be no nerve impulse. Do you know why?

 

[Loudmouth]

Everyone else on the internet uses the term "current". Tell it to McGraw-Hill.

If you want to call a rush of sodium ions through a protein a current then knock yourself out. It isn't the nerve impulse. The current you are pointing to is not the nerve impulse.

 

[Loudmouth]

Yep.

Then space Darth Vaders can happen too.

 

[Michael]

Any current is at a right angle to the propagation of the nerve impulse. It is explained quite well in that video. That you keep getting it wrong says a lot.

Go answer question number five on that McGraw-Hill quiz for me and tell me if you get it right. You don't even get the fact that pumps are moving the charge along the neurons in order yet!

Birkeland currents in plasmas do not move in straight lines either. You're imposing your own requirements and ignoring every written and published reference available. Talk about the blatant denial. The first thing they talked about in that video was the current, and you won't get the right answer on question number five! You're in pure denial.

 

[Michael]

Please, show these to us

Shall we start with the sun and the 600 million volts between the surface and the heliosphere?

and show how they are analogous to a nerve impulse.

Any Birkeland current carries electrical information along it's length.