‘Sell all you have, and give to the poor'

[Fireinfolding]

Praise God, it took a long time but He eventually gave me the glasses!

You know what that inner magnifying reminds me of simililarly? Looking at one of those 3D pictures (type pictures) which when you stand just staring at it at first. Just a bunch of random dots (so nothing much is seen) but give it some time and this whole other picture comes forth from behind it and grabs ya. Yet it felt much like this inward adjustment had to come. Like these invisible glasses took over. Much like how the Spirit and the scriptures seem to work. Or at least compareable. Give you are trying to see something outside of yourself (a picture) or the scriptures (just say) then the "wow" come, from both the picture and your eyes (in you) adjusting to it. It was always there you just werent seeing what hidden before your eyes.

I recall using that one when trying to explain to my sister what it was like, something she could relate to.

 

[LottyH]

You know what that inner magnifying reminds me of simililarly? Looking at one of those 3D pictures (type pictures) which when you stand just staring at it at first. Just a bunch of random dots (so nothing much is seen) but give it some time and this whole other picture comes forth from behind it and grabs ya. Yet it felt much like this inward adjustment had to come. Like these invisible glasses took over. Much like how the Spirit and the scriptures seem to work. Or at least compareable. Give you are trying to see something outside of yourself (a picture) or the scriptures (just say) then the "wow" come, from both the picture and your eyes (in you) adjusting to it. It was always there you just werent seeing what hidden before your eyes.

I recall using that one when trying to explain to my sister what it was like, something she could relate to.

Yes, that's a great way of explaining what its like! But its almost like God doesn't want to reveal anything straight away - its like He wants us to persist and struggle for a while (for me it was a long while) first to prove that we really really want the things of God. At the time it felt like I was going nowhere and just hitting a very silent, brick wall.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Yes, that's a great way of explaining what its like! But its almost like God doesn't want to reveal anything straight away - its like He wants us to persist and struggle for a while (for me it was a long while) first to prove that we really really want the things of God. At the time it felt like I was going nowhere and just hitting a very silent, brick wall.

That was my experience too sis. It sure wasnt a couple of minutes looking at one of those pictures, no.

 

[LottyH]

That was my experience too sis. It sure wasnt a couple of minutes looking at one of those pictures, no.

That's a relief, sometimes I think I've been a very slow learner!! But maybe most people go through a similar experience

 

[Fireinfolding]

That's a relief, sometimes I think I've been a very slow learner!! But maybe most people go through a similar experience

Your not alone. And I have told this before. I had learned to read higher then a 5th grade reading average by the scripture. My parents and teachers just couldnt get me to read. The hell I put my parents through, just so they could say I graduated (because it was their worst fear I would not). I did graduate scraping by with a D-. I was one of those who had to attend summer school every year of school even my senior year. I was a horrible student, there was just nothing I was interested in.

But when the Lord drew me to Himself that all changed. I now wanted to read the scriptures. My parents just couldnt believe there was actually a book opened before me for hours on end. I mean every chance I got to sit before them and read them was like my new partytime. I really felt like I was taken captive, I still do. I just wanted to know my Lord Jesus Christ, everything about Him, what He did for me, how He fulfilled things, and what I have in Him (just everything). You name it.

Now I had to sit with a dictionary to every word as I began to read. Back then I didnt know about versions, but my Aunt had given me a copy a long while back. And so I just started learning on the KJV. And man, getting past some of that wording was hard for me. I mean, because I know (in school) I got so fed up with this Dickens I threw it in the trash because of that speech. And ofcourse I failed that assignment because I couldnt read that stuff. So I was bad off that way from the start. I hadnt any idea what "thou" or "thee" was back then, thats how illiterate I was. Pretty embarrassing to say, but it was true.

So if someone you imagine, I began in while still trying to get a basic comprehension of words (teaching myself). It took me about two years before my first revelation (and I was in my glory) or rather His! Just Wow! Just what I needed (I was so excited) the book changed for me for ever. Not the book but the Spirit's quickening. This was just incredible!

Before that occurred I was moving along rather slowly for quite awhile. So what, right? Its all good.

Your not alone sis, and none of that matters, its where your going not how slow you took off

 

[ThunderTongue]

You know what that inner magnifying reminds me of simililarly? Looking at one of those 3D pictures (type pictures) which when you stand just staring at it at first. Just a bunch of random dots (so nothing much is seen) but give it some time and this whole other picture comes forth from behind it and grabs ya. Yet it felt much like this inward adjustment had to come. Like these invisible glasses took over. Much like how the Spirit and the scriptures seem to work. Or at least compareable. Give you are trying to see something outside of yourself (a picture) or the scriptures (just say) then the "wow" come, from both the picture and your eyes (in you) adjusting to it. It was always there you just werent seeing what hidden before your eyes.

I recall using that one when trying to explain to my sister what it was like, something she could relate to.

Awesome comparison. Jews see every word of God as a multifaceted diamond that, when turned against light, sheds something new with each new angle and turn. Now, take that point of view and apply it to a whole verse...now a whole paragraph or subject, now a whole chapter, etc...

I believe just the simple word of God is a fractal within a fractal within countless other fractals that contain all the information and "code" concerning life and existence


Sorry, just rambling here

 

[ThunderTongue]

Yes, that's a great way of explaining what its like! But its almost like God doesn't want to reveal anything straight away - its like He wants us to persist and struggle for a while (for me it was a long while) first to prove that we really really want the things of God. At the time it felt like I was going nowhere and just hitting a very silent, brick wall.

My glasses didn't arrive until I had the fire of God come upon me...then, the word, along with daily happenings and human encounters got decoded and explained by the spirit of God that, although was always there, didn't really feel so TANGIBLE until after that experience.

Different for different people I guess

 

[LottyH]

Your not alone. And I have told this before. I had learned to read higher then a 5th grade reading average by the scripture. My parents and teachers just couldnt get me to read. The hell I put my parents through, just so they could say I graduated (because it was their worst fear I would not). I did graduate scraping by with a D-. I was one of those who had to attend summer school every year of school even my senior year. I was a horrible student, there was just nothing I was interested in.

But when the Lord drew me to Himself that all changed. I now wanted to read the scriptures. My parents just couldnt believe there was actually a book opened before me for hours on end. I mean every chance I got to sit before them and read them was like my new partytime. I really felt like I was taken captive, I still do. I just wanted to know my Lord Jesus Christ, everything about Him, what He did for me, how He fulfilled things, and what I have in Him (just everything). You name it.

Now I had to sit with a dictionary to every word as I began to read. Back then I didnt know about versions, but my Aunt had given me a copy a long while back. And so I just started learning on the KJV. And man, getting past some of that wording was hard for me. I mean, because I know (in school) I got so fed up with this Dickens I threw it in the trash because of that speech. And ofcourse I failed that assignment because I couldnt read that stuff. So I was bad off that way from the start. I hadnt any idea what "thou" or "thee" was back then, thats how illiterate I was. Pretty embarrassing to say, but it was true.

So if someone you imagine, I began in while still trying to get a basic comprehension of words (teaching myself). It took me about two years before my first revelation (and I was in my glory) or rather His! Just Wow! Just what I needed (I was so excited) the book changed for me for ever. Not the book but the Spirit's quickening. This was just incredible!

Before that occurred I was moving along rather slowly for quite awhile. So what, right? Its all good.

Your not alone sis, and none of that matters, its where your going not how slow you took off

That is such a beautiful story and a wonderful testimony of God working in your life. I love to hear about people's experiences so thanks so much for sharing this with us

 

[LottyH]

Awesome comparison. Jews see every word of God as a multifaceted diamond that, when turned against light, sheds something new with each new angle and turn. Now, take that point of view and apply it to a whole verse...now a whole paragraph or subject, now a whole chapter, etc...

I believe just the simple word of God is a fractal within a fractal within countless other fractals that contain all the information and "code" concerning life and existence


Sorry, just rambling here

That's okay, I like listening to rambling Thanks, I love that picture of a diamond for God's word, I can definitely relate to that. God himself is like that too - we often try to put Him in a box but He is so complex, yet simple, so harsh in His judgement, yet so merciful, so difficult to understand - yet we know Him and trust Him, though we can never reach the end of understanding everything about Him or His word - a truly amazing journey.

 

[LottyH]

My glasses didn't arrive until I had the fire of God come upon me...then, the word, along with daily happenings and human encounters got decoded and explained by the spirit of God that, although was always there, didn't really feel so TANGIBLE until after that experience.

Different for different people I guess

By the fire of God do you mean being baptised by the holy spirit? I've been baptised by the holy spirit supposedly and for years I spoke in tongues. I'm not convinced that I really was baptised as I could always speak gobbledygook - don't believe I was really speaking in tongues. For a long time I prayed for the baptism to come, nothing like Acts description has ever happened but I figure that's God's domain, He can choose to do whatever He wishes with me - maybe it will take another 15 years

 

[contango]

Right now I feel like the rich man that went away sorrowful after hearing Jesus say that to him. (Matt 19:21,22)

Although I’m not rich by western standards I am so filthy rich compared with so many millions of people in the world that have nothing. I just feel so blessed to be born in a rich country but I feel that I have a greater responsibility before God in how I live my life and how I spend my money.

‘..For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required..’ Luke 12:48

The thought of continuing to live a ‘normal,’ happy, prosperous life, buying new things, going on holiday, etc etc makes me feel ill inside because I feel such a great burden and responsibility. I hate what I see in this world like materialism, corruption, greed, selfishness and people being exploited. The poor are getting poorer and the rich are getting richer – I just hate it. Yet if I lived like those in a developing country I would be miserable because I would miss all the comforts that I currently have.

Jesus said sell all you have, give to the poor and come follow me. If Jesus was here in person I would drop everything without hesitation and follow Him. However I think (ye of little faith) that if I walked out the door right now with just the shirt on my back that I would just fall flat on my face and be among the thousands of other homeless poor people out there.

Please note I’m not just talking about one scripture here, the same messages of self denial, for example, ‘pick up your cross’ and ‘whoever shall lose his life shall find it’, and the rebukes to the rich are throughout the whole of the new testament. Most of Jesus teachings are not taught in churches because He gives a lot of warnings which are not popular feel good messages. So I’m not expecting many people to understand where I am coming from.

But please respond if you can relate to this?

The theme of sharing and looking after those weaker than ourselves is consistent throughout the teachings of the NT. That said I don't believe it is necessary for every single one of us to sell everything we have and give all the money to "the poor" in a single hit any more than I believe it is necessary for every single one of us to bathe in the Jordan seven times to be cured of illness (as Elisha told Namaan in 2Kings 5).

Jesus' body was put in a tomb owned by Joseph of Arimathea. Presumably Joseph was a reasonably wealthy man to own such a tomb and he clearly hadn't sold it to give the money to the poor. When Peter had his issue with Ananias and Sapphira he made it clear the property in question was theirs and once sold the proceeds were theirs so there's clearly the freedom to choose to give all, some or none of what we have to support the church.

All that said I can understand where you're coming from, and it's highly commendable to seek to understand and implement what Jesus taught rather than filtering it through a "convenient in Western society" lens and figure that it would be great to do without our annual holiday to somewhere hot and expensive but we couldn't possibly face the Joneses next door unless our holiday was at least as good (read: expensive) as theirs.

If you're going to seek to help the poor it makes sense to do it in a way that actually helps them. In my opinion it's extremely poor stewardship to just hand over money to someone and walk away as if that fulfils the instruction to care for the poor.

Some people are poor because they just don't have enough to get by, and they may be helped by a little injection of cash once in a while. Some people are poor because they manage their finances badly, and giving them more money just means they'll squander it and end up no better off - these people are better helped by showing them how to budget. Some people are poor because they've got champagne tastes and a beer budget - giving them money just means they'll live beyond their means a little longer and they are better helped by showing them how to live within their means. Some people might be materially wealthy but socially poor - maybe someone who has all the money they need but has been widowed and is lonely - they don't need any more money but perhaps would appreciate some company once in a while.

For good measure sometimes people need help that could come in a variety of forms. A few weeks back one of the ladies at my church asked if I knew anything about central heating. I don't know a lot about it but can work heating timers and the like. It turned out one of the older ladies was having trouble with her heating and couldn't afford to call out a plumber. I took a look at it to see if it was something simple and it turned out she just needed to set up her timer, so I could do it for her within about 10 minutes. It made more sense for me to give her 10 minutes and show her how her timer worked, then hand over the cash to pay a plumber to visit. Handing over money would have made the problem go away for now but giving her some time made the problem go away and also made sure she knew how to do it herself if it ever happened again.

It's also worth keeping a sense of perspective about a lot of things. It's one thing to decide not to go on a lavish holiday somewhere knowing people around you are starving but it's another thing entirely to not buy any food for yourself because you know others are hungry. It's interesting to note Jesus didn't seem bothered at the woman who poured a pound of "very costly oil of spikenard" over hid head (Mark 14:3), so I think there's a strong case to be made that balances the "sell everything" with the "don't neglect yourself".

 

[LottyH]

The theme of sharing and looking after those weaker than ourselves is consistent throughout the teachings of the NT. That said I don't believe it is necessary for every single one of us to sell everything we have and give all the money to "the poor" in a single hit any more than I believe it is necessary for every single one of us to bathe in the Jordan seven times to be cured of illness (as Elisha told Namaan in 2Kings 5).

Jesus' body was put in a tomb owned by Joseph of Arimathea. Presumably Joseph was a reasonably wealthy man to own such a tomb and he clearly hadn't sold it to give the money to the poor. When Peter had his issue with Ananias and Sapphira he made it clear the property in question was theirs and once sold the proceeds were theirs so there's clearly the freedom to choose to give all, some or none of what we have to support the church.

All that said I can understand where you're coming from, and it's highly commendable to seek to understand and implement what Jesus taught rather than filtering it through a "convenient in Western society" lens and figure that it would be great to do without our annual holiday to somewhere hot and expensive but we couldn't possibly face the Joneses next door unless our holiday was at least as good (read: expensive) as theirs.

If you're going to seek to help the poor it makes sense to do it in a way that actually helps them. In my opinion it's extremely poor stewardship to just hand over money to someone and walk away as if that fulfils the instruction to care for the poor.

Some people are poor because they just don't have enough to get by, and they may be helped by a little injection of cash once in a while. Some people are poor because they manage their finances badly, and giving them more money just means they'll squander it and end up no better off - these people are better helped by showing them how to budget. Some people are poor because they've got champagne tastes and a beer budget - giving them money just means they'll live beyond their means a little longer and they are better helped by showing them how to live within their means. Some people might be materially wealthy but socially poor - maybe someone who has all the money they need but has been widowed and is lonely - they don't need any more money but perhaps would appreciate some company once in a while.

For good measure sometimes people need help that could come in a variety of forms. A few weeks back one of the ladies at my church asked if I knew anything about central heating. I don't know a lot about it but can work heating timers and the like. It turned out one of the older ladies was having trouble with her heating and couldn't afford to call out a plumber. I took a look at it to see if it was something simple and it turned out she just needed to set up her timer, so I could do it for her within about 10 minutes. It made more sense for me to give her 10 minutes and show her how her timer worked, then hand over the cash to pay a plumber to visit. Handing over money would have made the problem go away for now but giving her some time made the problem go away and also made sure she knew how to do it herself if it ever happened again.

It's also worth keeping a sense of perspective about a lot of things. It's one thing to decide not to go on a lavish holiday somewhere knowing people around you are starving but it's another thing entirely to not buy any food for yourself because you know others are hungry. It's interesting to note Jesus didn't seem bothered at the woman who poured a pound of "very costly oil of spikenard" over hid head (Mark 14:3), so I think there's a strong case to be made that balances the "sell everything" with the "don't neglect yourself".

Thanks so much, Contango - yours seems to be a very balanced perspective. I guess I feel that no matter what I do it is never enough and maybe that's the place Jesus wants me to be. I'm not talking about salvation here, but just helping and giving to others just never seems enough because of the tremendous need out there.

You mentioned about helping people who cant manage their finances or live within their means. How would you go about helping people in this situation when they don't want your advice about budgeting they just want your money?

 

[contango]

Thanks so much, Contango - yours seems to be a very balanced perspective. I guess I feel that no matter what I do it is never enough and maybe that's the place Jesus wants me to be. I'm not talking about salvation here, but just helping and giving to others just never seems enough because of the tremendous need out there.

The thing is we can't do everything. It reminds me of the story about a guy walking down a beach at low tide picking up stranded starfish and throwing them back into the sea. There were thousands of starfish up and down the beach as far as the eye could see. Someone challenged the man, saying he was wasting his time - he couldn't save them all and the few he was saving wasn't going to make a difference. So he just picked up another starfish, said "it makes a difference to this one" and threw it back into the sea.

Sometimes the need seems overwhelming. I personally switch off the endless adverts on TV showing children crying in Africa as they drink water straight from a murky stream. Partly because they are so obviously heavily processed (the "before" is always mostly desaturated while the "after" is always bursting with bright colour, which immediately makes me cynical about the campaign) and partly because when there's need locally it makes more sense to me to look to meet that need rather than sending some trivial amount of money every month to make myself feel better.

You mentioned about helping people who cant manage their finances or live within their means. How would you go about helping people in this situation when they don't want your advice about budgeting they just want your money?

This is the beauty of the more freedom based approach to giving - you get to decide what to give and when (and indeed whether). Someone who is receiving doesn't get to decide what they receive, you get to decide what you give. You can give them money anyway, or you can offer them advice, or you can turn and walk away. I have friends who are always short of cash and who look after what little they have very foolishly (I'm talking paying for holidays with their credit card while their utility bills are overdue, rather than just a minor disagreement over what is "wise"). Any time they want advice on budgeting I'm happy to talk to them but I'm not going to give them money because I know what will happen.

Sometimes God will lead you to someone who has a need that isn't immediately obvious. One thing I've found over the years is that the people with genuine needs tend to keep them quiet whereas those who don't really have a need, or who could get by with just a few lifestyle changes, are the loudest to complain about their lot. In discussions like this I often think of a lady I know who is severely disabled - she can walk short distances leaning heavily on two sticks, has had numerous operations to correct various things that made even that very painful for her, and yet she gets on with her life as best she can making whatever contributions she is physically capable of making. She is so totally different from another guy I knew who frequently complained he couldn't possibly be expected to work because of his bad back and yet somehow managed to do car mechanics for cash in hand. This lady in question once needed a large piece of furniture moved, so a bunch of us got together and shifted it for her (IIRC it took eight of us to move it). In return she gave us home made cookies. It worked for everyone - she got her furniture moved and we got some cookies after doing the work, and we all gained from the overall fellowship. It seemed like a much better approach than someone taking pity on her and giving her the money to pay a company to shift her furnitire.

Sometimes a very small gift makes a huge difference. A couple of years back my wife and I gave an Easter egg to a single mother in our church - we knew money was tight for her but didn't want her to know where they had come from. So we asked another member of the church to do the handover and not say anything more than that they had come from a church member. The cost was trivial to us but it meant her child had an Easter egg. They may have had one anyway but it meant we could be sure they wouldn't have gone without. Giving anonymously is good not only because of what Jesus said about the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing but also because it prevents any concerns about helping someone out once only to find them constantly at the door wanting more.

It can be surprisingly difficult to give to meet a specific need (as opposed to just handing over money to a charity, for example) in a way that meets a specific need, without creating a sense of ongoing obligation/dependence or of being somehow better than the recipient, and that meets the need in the most appropriate way.

Wherever possible help needs to be given in a way that ultimately encourages or assists the recipient to become less dependent on help. There's the well known saying about giving a man a fish or teaching a man to fish. If the man is practically dead due to hunger at the riverside there's not much point offering to sell him fishing gear - he needs a fish and he needs it now. But once he's strong enough to fish for himself it doesn't help him at all to just keep giving him fish - he needs to learn to support himself. In the process he becomes better placed to help someone else once he's back on his feet.

 

[LottyH]

The thing is we can't do everything. It reminds me of the story about a guy walking down a beach at low tide picking up stranded starfish and throwing them back into the sea. There were thousands of starfish up and down the beach as far as the eye could see. Someone challenged the man, saying he was wasting his time - he couldn't save them all and the few he was saving wasn't going to make a difference. So he just picked up another starfish, said "it makes a difference to this one" and threw it back into the sea.

Sometimes the need seems overwhelming. I personally switch off the endless adverts on TV showing children crying in Africa as they drink water straight from a murky stream. Partly because they are so obviously heavily processed (the "before" is always mostly desaturated while the "after" is always bursting with bright colour, which immediately makes me cynical about the campaign) and partly because when there's need locally it makes more sense to me to look to meet that need rather than sending some trivial amount of money every month to make myself feel better.



This is the beauty of the more freedom based approach to giving - you get to decide what to give and when (and indeed whether). Someone who is receiving doesn't get to decide what they receive, you get to decide what you give. You can give them money anyway, or you can offer them advice, or you can turn and walk away. I have friends who are always short of cash and who look after what little they have very foolishly (I'm talking paying for holidays with their credit card while their utility bills are overdue, rather than just a minor disagreement over what is "wise"). Any time they want advice on budgeting I'm happy to talk to them but I'm not going to give them money because I know what will happen.

Sometimes God will lead you to someone who has a need that isn't immediately obvious. One thing I've found over the years is that the people with genuine needs tend to keep them quiet whereas those who don't really have a need, or who could get by with just a few lifestyle changes, are the loudest to complain about their lot. In discussions like this I often think of a lady I know who is severely disabled - she can walk short distances leaning heavily on two sticks, has had numerous operations to correct various things that made even that very painful for her, and yet she gets on with her life as best she can making whatever contributions she is physically capable of making. She is so totally different from another guy I knew who frequently complained he couldn't possibly be expected to work because of his bad back and yet somehow managed to do car mechanics for cash in hand. This lady in question once needed a large piece of furniture moved, so a bunch of us got together and shifted it for her (IIRC it took eight of us to move it). In return she gave us home made cookies. It worked for everyone - she got her furniture moved and we got some cookies after doing the work, and we all gained from the overall fellowship. It seemed like a much better approach than someone taking pity on her and giving her the money to pay a company to shift her furnitire.

Sometimes a very small gift makes a huge difference. A couple of years back my wife and I gave an Easter egg to a single mother in our church - we knew money was tight for her but didn't want her to know where they had come from. So we asked another member of the church to do the handover and not say anything more than that they had come from a church member. The cost was trivial to us but it meant her child had an Easter egg. They may have had one anyway but it meant we could be sure they wouldn't have gone without. Giving anonymously is good not only because of what Jesus said about the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing but also because it prevents any concerns about helping someone out once only to find them constantly at the door wanting more.

It can be surprisingly difficult to give to meet a specific need (as opposed to just handing over money to a charity, for example) in a way that meets a specific need, without creating a sense of ongoing obligation/dependence or of being somehow better than the recipient, and that meets the need in the most appropriate way.

Wherever possible help needs to be given in a way that ultimately encourages or assists the recipient to become less dependent on help. There's the well known saying about giving a man a fish or teaching a man to fish. If the man is practically dead due to hunger at the riverside there's not much point offering to sell him fishing gear - he needs a fish and he needs it now. But once he's strong enough to fish for himself it doesn't help him at all to just keep giving him fish - he needs to learn to support himself. In the process he becomes better placed to help someone else once he's back on his feet.

Yes, I like that fish saying - sometimes its easier to throw money at a problem but there's so much more that can be done to help people.

 

[contango]

Yes, I like that fish saying - sometimes its easier to throw money at a problem but there's so much more that can be done to help people.

Not only that but sometimes throwing money at a problem only perpetuates the problem. Throwing fish at a man who could quite easily learn to fish for himself not only keeps him hungry for longer but makes it unlikely he'll ever learn to fish.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Awesome comparison. Jews see every word of God as a multifaceted diamond that, when turned against light, sheds something new with each new angle and turn. Now, take that point of view and apply it to a whole verse...now a whole paragraph or subject, now a whole chapter, etc...

I believe just the simple word of God is a fractal within a fractal within countless other fractals that contain all the information and "code" concerning life and existence


Sorry, just rambling here

Don't be sorry, I love it, so true! I live to turn them all the time, and by that I don't mean twist but how they interlock into this patern of like no matter which angel you take when you behold each facet of them.

Theres are some things much harder to catch then others, but wow! when you do you are often like, "how'd I miss that"? By what measure you mete in your hearing. Or even how you hear it very much seems. When at first I was like "what the heck"? I asked whys out of my head (trying to reason from it) rather then bring my own thoughts down and reason from His. As it shows they "reasoned from the scripture". It is like this process or something, I so wish I could word that inner process of pulling down what I did, even my approach, or how I reasoned (out of my own head) and how that even needs to come under Him also. I mean you don't read the scriptures in the same way you would typically read a letter from your mom (or whoever). You don't rightly divide your moms letters, you don't need to jump all over the place to find the sum of what she is saying much more plainly. You need a Helper (even the Holy Ghost) teaching you to compare spiritual things with spiritual for your mothers words. Its like the Holy Ghost helps you to see out of obscurity, when things are written in an obscure manner, or what appears to be.

Jesus Christ, is just "Wow" cant help but be in awe of God who enlarges us to catch just how awesome He is in ways I find so hard to describe sometimes.

What a great God we have!

 

[MagicSabbath]

I think we have to take into account the context of the time that scripture was written in comparison to today's world.

Making yourself penniless and homeless so as to give to others is not God's will. Give when you have bounty so that others may prosper when they have far less.

 

[ThunderTongue]

By the fire of God do you mean being baptised by the holy spirit? I've been baptised by the holy spirit supposedly and for years I spoke in tongues. I'm not convinced that I really was baptised as I could always speak gobbledygook - don't believe I was really speaking in tongues. For a long time I prayed for the baptism to come, nothing like Acts description has ever happened but I figure that's God's domain, He can choose to do whatever He wishes with me - maybe it will take another 15 years

Yes. But the fire here specifically was a one time thing that happened to me that opened my eyes forever. I had already had the baptism, and Gods word came more alive then, but this fire experience was so strong it changed me forever for the better. Some visions and things happened during it that I won't go into...but ask for this fire!

 

[Fireinfolding]

Whats interesting is that The "fire of God" falling from heaven is also spoken of the messengers of Job (And this ) as tribulation come upon Job. Even as gold is tried in the fire is also spoken of it speaks of the trying of our faith which is more precious then gold. Whereas even Job said, "when he has tried me I shall come forth "as gold".

Even there as this fire of God fell upon Job (in the form of tribulation) just as we know tribulation worketh patience and we are told Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job.

And again you see Satan speaking of Job to God and his desire to "have at him" (sifting him) in respects to remaining faithful to God. Then we also see Jesus express to Simon that Satan hath desired to have him to sift him as wheat. Followed by, but I have prayed for you that your faith fail not. So the trying of Simons faith is being shown to us beforehand. Even as Jesus is called the "tried stone". It was after Christ's baptism that the Spirit drove him into the wilderness to be tempted of Satan, and Jesus returns in the power of the Spirit. Lots of similarities in this. Because first we see the Spirit descend upon Jesus (at his baptism) and then the Spirit drove into a time of testing (Christ is called being a tried stone) even as our faith is tried. So the trying of our faith (Jesus prayed for) itself worketh the patience (we have need of) which we are told to behold in Job, and even where "the fire of God" in the form of tribulation did fall (so to speak). Not always but the trying of our faith which is more precious then gold is shown and Jesus asking certain of them to buy of me gold tried in the fire. Even as it speaks of fiery trials which come to you. Or a season of heaviness and a manifold of temptations (if need be). But these work for our benefit even as we see Jesus return from the same in power.

That kind of fire I don't always look forward to Its like a grin and bear it situation. Keep that mind, for the joy set before you also.

 

[LottyH]

Whats interesting is that The "fire of God" falling from heaven is also spoken of the messengers of Job (And this ) as tribulation come upon Job. Even as gold is tried in the fire is also spoken of it speaks of the trying of our faith which is more precious then gold. Whereas even Job said, "when he has tried me I shall come forth "as gold".

Even there as this fire of God fell upon Job (in the form of tribulation) just as we know tribulation worketh patience and we are told Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job.

And again you see Satan speaking of Job to God and his desire to "have at him" (sifting him) in respects to remaining faithful to God. Then we also see Jesus express to Simon that Satan hath desired to have him to sift him as wheat. Followed by, but I have prayed for you that your faith fail not. So the trying of Simons faith is being shown to us beforehand. Even as Jesus is called the "tried stone". It was after Christ's baptism that the Spirit drove him into the wilderness to be tempted of Satan, and Jesus returns in the power of the Spirit. Lots of similarities in this. Because first we see the Spirit descend upon Jesus (at his baptism) and then the Spirit drove into a time of testing (Christ is called being a tried stone) even as our faith is tried. So the trying of our faith (Jesus prayed for) itself worketh the patience (we have need of) which we are told to behold in Job, and even where "the fire of God" in the form of tribulation did fall (so to speak). Not always but the trying of our faith which is more precious then gold is shown and Jesus asking certain of them to buy of me gold tried in the fire. Even as it speaks of fiery trials which come to you. Or a season of heaviness and a manifold of temptations (if need be). But these work for our benefit even as we see Jesus return from the same in power.

That kind of fire I don't always look forward to Its like a grin and bear it situation. Keep that mind, for the joy set before you also.

That's interesting. I've been thinking a lot lately about gold being tried in the fire. We often see trials as very negative but it can often be God refining us and pruning off those dead branches. Agree it can be painful though and don't really welcome it either but it would be amazing if it makes us as pure as gold