Was This right?

[Tropical Wilds]

You should read your own link. The employer is required to pay the difference so they make at least fed min wage which is close to $8 an hour. I would be glad to hire people to work for $10 an hour. But you can not find very many people willing to work for that now a days.

If you read the link, you'd see that they're only required to do that if the pre-tax total they make, including tips, is under the minimum wage and that's before the tips are split with bussers/bar/hostess. If the total they make is minimum wage, then they split their tips, they'll still be making from their employer less then minimum wage.

Which means, very realistically speaking, they're making just over $2 an hour and the primary part of their income depends on tips. So when somebody stiffs them, if there aren't a lot of people walking in the door, or you have somebody who feels that they are exempt from the social ettiquite of a 15% tip, these people are working for peanuts and when you stiff them, you're hurting them

And if you think you can't find people who'd like to make $10 an hour, you're very detached from society, the job market, and people in general.

I remember once I ordered a truck of mulch for the lawn. As my wife and I were spreading it out I would ask the teenagers as they walked by if they wanted a job. None of them took me up on it. They all seemed to have plenty of money, even though they did not do anything for it. I use to have to work for my money. But I guess that is not the way it is now a days.

You could tell by just looking at a teenager who was walking down the road that they A. had money and B. didn't earn it? That's quite a gift, I must say.

And in this day and age, I wouldn't expect a teenager to just agree to work for some random guy at his home. Not only is it a personal safety issue, it's pretty arrogant on your part to assume that whatever they're doing couldn't possibly be as important as what you want them to do for you. Especially if these people wait your tables and know that you underpay them for their time anyway.

When I was 12 years old I use to have to cut the grass, clean the garage, clean the attic. I painted the fense one summer. I use to split the wood for the fireplace. I use to help my dad make repairs and improvements on the house. I wanted to do all of that.

Walk up hill, both ways, in the snow, 20 miles in bare feet to get to school...

But I see homeless people that do not do any of that. They want to do nothing and expect people to give them money to live in a house that they are not willing to take care of. IT just does not work that way.

And again, you know this... How?

I have offered to buy people a house and they turned me down because they did not want to have to make repairs and maintain the house. Then they will complain about how miserable they are.

So wait... People who can't afford a house and reject your baffling offer to buy one for them are lazy for being smart enough to say that they realize that they can't afford/don't want/can't maintain a house? I guess you missed the whole housing crash where people rushed to get houses that they could afford on paper, but couldn't afford practically after things like maintenance, taxes, and home repair?

That doesn't sound lazy to me... That sounds completely realistic and practical. Then again, I'm apparently lazy because we live in an apartment with a lot of problems that irritate me, but we wouldn't move into a house, even if it was given to us, because I know we couldn't afford to keep it up and maintain it both financially and because neither I or my husband would have the time.

Some of the most miserable people I know spend all their time thinking about themselves. The people I know that are the MOST happy are always doing something to help others and not expecting anything in return for what they are doing to make another persons life a little bit more easy and comfortable.

Unless that something is giving somebody the tip they deserve, of course. You'll gift somebody a house, you'll complain people are too entitled, you'll gripe about the teenagers in your neighborhood not dropping everything to spread dirt on your property, but you look at the person who's serving you food, holding down a job, and working their butt off, and stiff them.

So apparently if you don't work hard or do work hard, in your world, you still deserve nothing for it.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Well first of all like I stated we didn't have enough to tip the entire 15%

Devil's advocate says that maybe you probably shouldn't have gone out to eat if you couldn't afford a part of the meal...

on top of that the service wasn't all that great.
I asked twice to get more water from different waiters.. and eventually I asked the first one again. Eventually I got water, and it wasn't all that busy either.

But in the original post you expressed that the reason you didn't do 15% is that you couldn't afford it. And, honestly, having somebody forget water doesn't really seem like an infraction worth a sub-standard tip.

Here were I live, US, 15% is customary I understand that. But I have never seen a MANDATORY tip unless you have a large party. I know waiters get paid less and try to tip fairly. Heck I have friends around the early 30s that don't tip at all.

It's up to the establishment, so if that's what they want to do, that's their prerogative. Honestly, I've been to numerous places that require a 15% or even an 18% tip regardless of party size. I know at Disney, there are plenty of places that put right on the bill what your total is for 15%, 18%, and 20% and you check off which one you're paying.

And just because your friends are jerks doesn't make it OK for you to tip less, and I'm sure it'll be of little consolation to the server.

 

[Joshua0]

If you read the link,

You link says: "The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) requires payment of at least the federal minimum wage" That is why so many of our jobs are going to China. They have a minimum wage in some areas under $100 a month. Although they usually provide some food and a bed to sleep in. That is better then they get paid on the farm.

List of minimum wages in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Walk up hill, both ways, in the snow, 20 miles in bare feet to get to school...

I do not know about bare feet, but my winter jacket was not that warm. I did get a school jacket and that was a lot better. According to the Google map it was 2 miles to the High School each way and yes before I had a drivers license I had to walk both ways. I never got a ride to school. Even I had to walk when I was in the first grade. My sister took me the first day and after that I was on my own.

I know we couldn't afford to keep it up and maintain it both financially and because neither I or my husband would have the time.

Could be. IT does not cost much to buy a house. The one I was looking at sold at one time for around $60,000. There were some very nice improvements. The house was on the market for around $10,000. The people had moved out, the pipes froze and there was a lot of water damage that needed repaired. From what I saw I would have bid the job for maybe $1500 or $2,000. It was on a main street, so there would be some noise and traffic. Some people are like that though. It is to much trouble for them to find people to make repairs, so they would rather rent.

Unless that something is giving somebody the tip they deserve, of course.

You and me seem to have a different belief about what people deserve. You do not seem to mind the workers in China making substandard wages. Looks to me like you got a bit of a double standard.

 

[yasic]

You should read your own link. The employer is required to pay the difference so they make at least fed min wage which is close to $8 an hour. I would be glad to hire people to work for $10 an hour. But you can not find very many people willing to work for that now a days. I remember once I ordered a truck of mulch for the lawn. As my wife and I were spreading it out I would ask the teenagers as they walked by if they wanted a job. None of them took me up on it. They all seemed to have plenty of money, even though they did not do anything for it. I use to have to work for my money. But I guess that is not the way it is now a days. When I was 12 years old I use to have to cut the grass, clean the garage, clean the attic. I painted the fense one summer. I use to split the wood for the fireplace. I use to help my dad make repairs and improvements on the house. I wanted to do all of that. But I see homeless people that do not do any of that. They want to do nothing and expect people to give them money to live in a house that they are not willing to take care of. IT just does not work that way. I have offered to buy people a house and they turned me down because they did not want to have to make repairs and maintain the house. Then they will complain about how miserable they are. Some of the most miserable people I know spend all their time thinking about themselves. The people I know that are the MOST happy are always doing something to help others and not expecting anything in return for what they are doing to make another persons life a little bit more easy and comfortable.

Except it does not work this way in practice. If you make less than minimum wage in tips and you ask your employer for the difference, yes they will give you the difference but then promptly fire you. Thus most people if they do make less than minimum wage either suck it up and don't report it, or even take their own cash out of their pocket and 'tip themselves' to keep the books clean (even though this costs them money in the form of double taxation)


Oh, and as far as the job market goes, I regularly look for employees as part of my job, and when I put an add on craigslist for work paying 25 cents above the minimum wage I get some 30 applications a day, most of whom are happy to drop everything they are doing to come into the interview. So you are dead-wrong about the job market at least in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, and Ohio (I hire in many regions of all 4 states)

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Servers don't make minimum wage in most states. Tips are required to help make up the difference. In some states, such as mine, they're paid the Federal Minimum Wage for tipped employees, which is $2.13 an hour. And in most establishments, they have to split their tips with the bar, bussers, and/or hostess, though in those situations, their pay per hour is more like $5.

What is the minimum wage for workers who receive tips?

Exactly. That's just insane.

 

[yasic]

You link says: "The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) requires payment of at least the federal minimum wage" That is why so many of our jobs are going to China. They have a minimum wage in some areas under $100 a month. Although they usually provide food and a bed to sleep in.

List of minimum wages in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

According to the Google map it was 2 miles to the High School each way and yes before I had a drivers license I had to walk both ways. I never got a ride to school. Even I had to walk when I was in the first grace.

Could be. IT does not cost much to buy a house. The one I was looking at sold at one time for around $60,000. There were some very nice improvements. The house was on the market for around $10,000. The people had moved out, the pipes froze and there was a lot of water damage that needed repaired. From what I saw I would have bid the job for maybe $1500 or $2,000. It was on a main street, so there would be some noise and traffic. Some people are like that though. It is to much trouble for them to find people to make repairs, so they would rather rent.

You and me seem to have a different belief about what people deserve. You do not seem to mind the workers in China making substandard wages. Looks to me like you got a bit of a double standard.

So in other words, because people in China make a lot less than waiters in the US, you are perfectly justified in being greedy with wages so as to enjoy more money for yourself?

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

If we treated the working population as miserably as China does, there would be very few people left who could actually afford the products produced.

The market pretty much depends on decent wages - if all the working poor earned no more than 100$ per month, sales would drop, pretty much ruining the businesses that sought to grow rich by paying less to their employers.

What we are faced with right now, globally speaking, is basically just a few form of colonialism that does no longer depend on nation states, but on international mega-corporations.

 

[Joshua0]

Devil's advocate says that maybe you probably shouldn't have gone out to eat if you couldn't afford a part of the meal...

Reality says you got to take the good with the bad and average it out. Some people pay 10% some people pay 20% so the average works out to be 15%. According to your logic it is the waitress that should be look for another job if they can not accept that some people pay a little more then the standard and some people pay a little bit less.

 

[Joshua0]

If we treated the working population as miserably as China does, there would be very few people left who could actually afford the products produced.

Oh no, there are a lot of rich people in China. Just not the factory workers. For the most part the city people are rich and the village people are poor. I think that somewhere in their life is is all going to balance out for them. We need to get out and work and it does not matter if people pay us what we are worth or not. God will make it up for us.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Oh no, there are a lot of rich people in China. Just not the factory workers.

Exactly.
A small elite (akin to a new aristocracy) grows insanely rich by exploiting the masses (akin to a new form of serfdom).

 

[Paradoxum]

If you have to pay a tip then it isn't a tip is it. They might as well add it to the wage. I would rather just be charged more rather than be socially manipulated to have to pay a tip. Tell me what to pay and I'll pay it, I don't want to have to pretend to care about the service. Good service should be part of the job description.

Luckily in the UK employees are paid a proper wage.

 

[Joshua0]

Exactly.
A small elite (akin to a new aristocracy) grows insanely rich by exploiting the masses (akin to a new form of serfdom).

It is a lot of work to get the education in China. WE are going to be in serious trouble in America if we do not start to take this more serious. In Detroit they are only graduating 20% of the males.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Joshua0

You should read your own link. The employer is required to pay the difference so they make at least fed min wage which is close to $8 an hour.
​

Funny story.
If I don't claim enough in tips to average $5.12 an hour, I get fired. So no, I get paid $2.13.

Wow! And I thought I had it bad.........



.

 

[Jade Margery]

You and me seem to have a different belief about what people deserve. You do not seem to mind the workers in China making substandard wages. Looks to me like you got a bit of a double standard.

Hey, if that's what it takes for you to justify being stingy and judging people you don't know....

Wouldn't Jesus be proud?

 

[homeofmew]

Devil's advocate says that maybe you probably shouldn't have gone out to eat if you couldn't afford a part of the meal...



But in the original post you expressed that the reason you didn't do 15% is that you couldn't afford it. And, honestly, having somebody forget water doesn't really seem like an infraction worth a sub-standard tip.



It's up to the establishment, so if that's what they want to do, that's their prerogative. Honestly, I've been to numerous places that require a 15% or even an 18% tip regardless of party size. I know at Disney, there are plenty of places that put right on the bill what your total is for 15%, 18%, and 20% and you check off which one you're paying.

And just because your friends are jerks doesn't make it OK for you to tip less, and I'm sure it'll be of little consolation to the server.

I'm kinda sick of your attitude at me so lemme clear this up
"I didn't have enough cash" doesn't mean i couldn't pay for it
I could have Easily put it on the card and let it be.
The issue at hand was there was NO Notification ANYWHERE that there was a mandatory amount. EVEN on the Bill given the first time. Heck if it was MANDATORY it would have been there the first time

just fyi we weren't at Disney.