Do Any Other Religions Boast Such A Claim?

[LoAmmi]

You didnt see the photos??

What photos? What good would a photo do us for an event that happened 2000 years ago?

 

[SanFrank]

No. As I pointed out, pretty much the opposite happened, and slavery only disappeared because serfdom turned out to be more economically sensible in a feudal context.

Christians like to retroactively attribute all kinds of social advances to their religion, but the heart of the matter is that more often than not, it served as a HUGE stumbling block to these developments, often actively opposing them.
There have always been liberal minorities that were in favour of these changes (as in the case of American slavery, for example), but these were always condemned as unbiblical and/or heretical. And to be fair, in a sense they were. The Bible definitely delivers more arguments for the pro-slavery crowd than for the abolitionists. And it's the same with monarchism/despotism vs. parliamentary democracy/republicanism, equal rights for men and women vs. women as second class citizens, etc.

Conservative Christianity had to be fought with tooth and claw every single step of the way, each and every time. But fifty years from now, conservative Christians will probably proclaim that LGBT-rights have only been achieved because of Christian love and tolerance, citing some contemporary liberal spokespeople as the torchbearers of "true" Christianity. Just wait and see.

I understand how you see history and your take on christianity but my question to you was the last one; how to effectively re-incorporate servitude on so-so christian masses in a peaceful manner in a socialist setting even as people can retain their freedom of movement and civil rights.

EDIT to clarify
How would you use christianity to advance such a thing. Im thinking in terms of the 9 million and growing receipients of Social Security disabiility; a clear form of fraud in our civilized day and age. These people do not meet the SSA requirements which are 1) severe disability, 2) blindness, 3) over 65. Rather todays recipients are young, healthy and able-bodied. Another 45 million are on food stamps. Somehow when the money runs dry, the govt has to have in place, some form of work-for-food program (modern-day serfdom). But an irresponsible govt will simply let the money run out and that will lead to looting, theft, mayhem. (This has nothing to do with the OP so you dont need to answer.)

 

[SanFrank]

What photos? What good would a photo do us for an event that happened 2000 years ago?

predictable

Ill let the other member respond further, im out.

 

[LoAmmi]

predictable

Ill let the other member respond further, im out.

I find it predictable that you aren't going to show me what you're talking about.

 

[awitch]

yeah, yeah - you offer no comment on the last sentence in that post. Im surprised.

The US government is not going to reintroduce slavery or serfdom.

 

[Mikeb85]

I don't think there is a comparison with other religious figures. You can visit the grave of Muhammed & Buddha & see the place where their bodies are resting. You can visit the Sepulchre site but Jesus' body isn't there. His body is gone.

This in itself isn't proof. Especially since Mohammed and Buddha never claimed to be anything more than men...

 

[Ishraqiyun]

So where exactly is Buddha's body located then? Do we know It's actually his body and not a fabrication on par with a lot of the other supposed Relics that belonged to the Buddha? Once someone becomes that popular and important everyone and their brother is going to claim to have a tooth, hair, walking stick, physical remains, etc..

It's true that he was said to have died but his Dhama body was supposed to be beyond the reach of death. Ressurecting the corpse of the specific nirmanakaya body of shakyamuni wasn't necessary. That manifestation body had already served its purpose. Look up the idea of the triple body of the Buddha. Nirmanakaya bodies aren't supposed to last forever or be ressurected. Lack of ressurection there is no argument against Buddhism. Buddha was already eternal, blissful, etc. and in no way depended on that body which was taken on for the sake of everyone else. You could view that body more as an avatar in a virtual reality game it wasn't supposed to be the totality of the Primal Buddha but merely a manifastaion.

 

[Mikeb85]

Would like to point out that most of these characters are not historical...

 

[RickardoHolmes]

Would like to point out that most of these characters are not historical...

So, myth is myth, and cultures share myths nonetheless

Anyway, the point of my message is that I would not waste time in front of people preaching how my way is right and everyone else's is wrong. One, I have too much self esteem and self respect to engagein such desperate measures, and two, if My example is not enough to show that by the example I live, then any followers I have would have to be pretty dense to think otherwise.

 

[SanFrank]

This in itself isn't proof. Especially since Mohammed and Buddha never claimed to be anything more than men...

duly noted

So where exactly is Buddha's body located then? Do we know It's actually his body and not a fabrication on par with a lot of the other supposed Relics that belonged to the Buddha? Once someone becomes that popular and important everyone and their brother is going to claim to have a tooth, hair, walking stick, physical remains, etc..

It's true that he was said to have died but his Dhama body was supposed to be beyond the reach of death. Ressurecting the corpse of the specific nirmanakaya body of shakyamuni wasn't necessary. That manifestation body had already served its purpose. Look up the idea of the triple body of the Buddha. Nirmanakaya bodies aren't supposed to last forever or be ressurected. Lack of ressurection there is no argument against Buddhism. Buddha was already eternal, blissful, etc. and in no way depended on that body which was taken on for the sake of everyone else. You could view that body more as an avatar in a virtual reality game it wasn't supposed to be the totality of the Primal Buddha but merely a manifastaion.

I assume the idea of reincarnation didnt come into play?

 

[Rationalt]

I assume the idea of reincarnation didnt come into play?

Not For Buddha.He crossed the cycle of rebirth and death.

The Point he was trying to make is resurrection is Pointless from Buddhist perspective .

Many have a hard time understanding the christian fixation with resurrection concept.What exactly is the Point ? and What purpose it served ?.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Would like to point out that most of these characters are not historical...

Neither is the version of Jesus we see in the New Testament, regardless of whether it was based on a historical person or not.

Jesus of the gospels is the equivalent of Alexander-the-Great-as the son of Zeus-Ammon, slayer of amazons.

 

[Mikeb85]

Neither is the version of Jesus we see in the New Testament, regardless of whether it was based on a historical person or not.

The main difference is that most of the characters in the post I referred to, aren't even considered to be based on a historical person, never mind the embellishments. Jesus, Buddha, Zoroaster, Mahavira, Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu, Pythagoras, Achilles, Mohammed, Baha'ullah, are at least considered to have been real people, whether or not you believe the miraculous aspects of their stories.

Jesus of the gospels is the equivalent of Alexander-the-Great-as the son of Zeus-Ammon, slayer of amazons.

Perhaps, but it's still based on a historic person. Thor, Krishna, Horus, Osiris, etc..., are not quite in the same category...

 

[SanFrank]

Like another poster mentioned a Buddhist might claim that Buddha was born of a virgin and started walking and talking as soon as he jumped out of the womb. Like certain Christians do they might claim that they have evidence for this in their scriptures and the stories passed down by people who actually knew the Buddha... etc...

A Taoist might say that Lao Tzu stayed in the womb so long he was 80 years old when he came out and he had a full head of gray hair too. He actually did the walking around and making lotus's appear thing too. We have books attributed to eye witnesses!

Although not a scholar on Tsaoism, i have to reiterate that in addition to Christ performing miracles, Paul's writings depict miracles well after Christs death (and resurrection) of which others witness and he gives the credit to Christ. There are many such accounts of miracles performed by followers of Christ since then and to this day, and none of them take personal credit. The same cannot be said of Lao Tzu.

 

[SanFrank]

No one has been able to bring forward a comparable to prevent me from shaming other religions in my next sermon. Although that sermon is ongoing, I did not bring up "miracles" because I did not need to. I find I shame other religions merely by pointing out christian examples in my own life while at the same time making mention of other religions. No one can find a role model in islam. Aside from boasting the most salat or (pbuh's), there is nothing morally outstanding that I can find.
Buddha is the only role model I can find for budhists.

Christianity is full of role models; from Stephen, Paul, the apostolic fathers to Martin Luther, MLK Jr, to CS Lewis, to Mother Theresa. I can point to any one of them and others to find valuable examples of character that motivates others. I myself am a role model of high moral standards found in examples I pass on to others.

"I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." - CS Lewis

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Apparently, nobody has ever told SanFrank that a man's praise in his own mouth stinks.

This is one of those awkward moments that you'd call "Fremdschämen" in German.
It's embarrassing to watch, on his account.

 

[elephunky]

Apparently, nobody has ever told SanFrank that a man's praise in his own mouth stinks.

This is one of those awkward moments that you'd call "Fremdschämen" in German.
It's embarrassing to watch, on his account.

Actually I have lol

 

[awitch]

No one has been able to bring forward a comparable to prevent me from shaming other religions in my next sermon.

I guess you'll have to keep shaming your own then.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

Although not a scholar on Tsaoism, i have to reiterate that in addition to Christ performing miracles, Paul's writings depict miracles well after Christs death (and resurrection) of which others witness and he gives the credit to Christ. There are many such accounts of miracles performed by followers of Christ since then and to this day, and none of them take personal credit. The same cannot be said of Lao Tzu.

Many people in the Taoist tradition post Lao Tzu have been credited with miracles. Heck, there are still reputed Taoist miracle workers, spiritual healers, and wizards in modern day Hong Kong. The miraculous is a main element in certain streams of Taoist practice and Chinese popular religion. I would say even more so then Christianity except maybe for a small segment of the Pentacostal community.

 

[essentialsaltes]

and none of them take personal credit.

Even if true, I just don't see that it is a fact of any particular significance. It's as though a Buddhist were to 'shame' other religions because their founders don't have stretched earlobes. No other religion has that!