Paul Ryan, Enemy of the Middle Class?

[GarfieldJL]

Paul Ryan’s cruelly radical vision


Paul Ryan’s budget could prove to be a perversely useful document.
Thanks to this plan, nobody can take the House Budget Committee chairman seriously anymore as a policy wonk or a true deficit hawk. His budget is the work of an ideologue. It’s a bargaining ploy that even Ryan concedes is merely “a vision.”
It is full of holes and magic asterisks, the biggest being his refusal to detail any of the middle-class tax deductions he would have to scrap to get to his 25 percent income tax rate. This would represent an astonishingly large cut from the current 39.6 percent rate for incomes of over $450,000 a year.
It’s a cruel budget. To finance his largess to the very well-off, Ryan would — through steep Medicaid cuts and the repeal of Obamacare — leave an additional 40 million to 50 million poor or moderate-income Americans without health insurance, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.
He’d impose big reductions for food stamps, college tuition aid, child nutrition programs and a slew of other programs that help the least among us. Even here, Ryan doesn’t come clean. He fuzzes up exactly how such cuts might be made by lumping them together in large categories.
Those who think of themselves as compassionate conservatives have a moral obligation to oppose Ryan’s design....

Thanks for demonstrating why there is no fiscal responsibility in Washington DC, whenever Republicans try to reign in spending they get demonized by the radical left which come out with smears such as: "Republicans are trying to kill grandma."

Nevermind the fact the Democrat Controlled senate has been in violation of the United States Constitution since 2009, for failing to work on a budget (let alone pass one).

It's easy to demonize Republicans when you're getting a pass by the dishonest media on having to show what you're planning to do.


Additionally, you've also proven how ill-informed you are, because the Ryan budget doesn't make any spending cuts, it merely slows the annual rate of growth...

 

[Assuredcw]

Thanks for demonstrating why there is no fiscal responsibility in Washington DC, whenever Republicans try to reign in spending they get demonized by the radical left which come out with smears such as: "Republicans are trying to kill grandma."

....Additionally, you've also proven how ill-informed you are, because the Ryan budget doesn't make any spending cuts, it merely slows the annual rate of growth...

1) It is NOT fiscally responsible to CUT ANYONE'S tax rates when we have a deficit, particularly when you are talking the TOP rates. That is the exact opposite of what we should be doing, if we are interested in controlling the deficit.

2) If as you say, the GOP isn't making SPENDING cuts, and all they are doing is cutting the top tax rates (see #1 above), then I fail to see what would be so "fiscally responsible" about Ryan's budget. It's (all the more transparently) a giveaway for wealthy campaign contributors, because it doesn't appear to be DOING anything else, other than to defund government itself, by lowering top rates (and revenues). That's not an "improvement" when you have an actual deficit to contend with.

 

[GarfieldJL]

1) It is NOT fiscally responsible to CUT ANYONE'S tax rates when we have a deficit, particularly when you are talking the TOP rates. That is the exact opposite of what we should be doing, if we are interested in controlling the deficit.

You're over-simplifying, cutting the tax-rate while eliminating a bunch of loopholes and simplifying the tax code, can in fact generate more revenue.

I'm going to be quite blunt, the wealthiest 5%, pay 70% of the taxes, I think they are paying more than their "fair share."

2) If as you say, the GOP isn't making SPENDING cuts, and all they are doing is cutting the top tax rates (see #1 above), then I fail to see what would be so "fiscally responsible" about Ryan's budget. It's (all the more transparently) a giveaway for wealthy campaign contributors, because it doesn't appear to be DOING anything else, other than to defund government itself, by lowering top rates (and revenues). That's not an "improvement" when you have an actual deficit to contend with.

I would explain it to you, but since you likely wouldn't believe me, I suggest you actually find the actual text of Ryan's budget proposal and find some interviews where Paul Ryan explains what all is in his budget, rather than believing the left-wing drive-bys that are more interested in mating with Obama than reporting the news...

 

[Assuredcw]

You're over-simplifying, cutting the tax-rate while eliminating a bunch of loopholes and simplifying the tax code, can in fact generate more revenue.

I'm going to be quite blunt, the wealthiest 5%, pay 70% of the taxes, I think they are paying more than their "fair share."



I would explain it to you, but since you likely wouldn't believe me, I suggest you actually find the actual text of Ryan's budget proposal and find some interviews where Paul Ryan explains what all is in his budget, rather than believing the left-wing drive-bys that are more interested in mating with Obama than reporting the news...

Oh, and taxes for middle class taxpayers will go up, because THEY will lose deductions. Paul Ryan won't tell us which ones, because apparently "the peasants" aren't supposed to know what is supposed to happen. But the Capital Gains people don't mind -- they aren't the ones who depend on, or qualify for, deductions, are they?

 

[Assuredcw]

Inside the heads of the 1% - latimes.com

In case anyone had any doubts about who stands to benefit from Paul Ryan's fiscal policies.


Over the last two years, President Obama and Congress have put the country on track to reduce projected federal budget deficits by nearly $4 trillion. Yet when that process began, in early 2011, only about 12% of Americans in Gallup polls cited federal debt as the nation's most important problem. Two to three times as many cited unemployment and jobs as the biggest challenge facing the country.
So why did policymakers focus so intently on the deficit issue? One reason may be that the small minority that saw the deficit as the nation's priority had more clout than the majority that didn't.
We recently conducted a survey of top wealth-holders (with an average net worth of $14 million) in the Chicago area, one of the first studies to systematically examine the political attitudes of wealthy Americans. Our research found that the biggest concern of this top 1% of wealth-holders was curbing budget deficits and government spending. When surveyed, they ranked those things as priorities three times as often as they did unemployment — and far more often than any other issue.

Not that Paul Ryan's policies actually WILL reduce the deficit, mind you, because they deduct tax revenue that would be needed to pay the deficit down. What Paul Ryan's policies WILL DO, however, is redistribute the burden of paying down the deficit, so that middle class taxpayers will have more of this burden than ever before, after 30 years of tax cut after tax cut for the upper brackets and for Capital Gains people. You think rich people have low enough tax rates yet? Uh uh. Paul Ryan is not done reducing their tax rates yet. That's bad news for the rest of us, because it crowds out any possibility of a reduction for middle class people. If anything, this scenario suggests that our effective rates will climb ever higher.

 

[Assuredcw]

Paul Ryan’s disappearing act - Jonathan Martin - POLITICO.com

....And, friends say, the House Budget Committee chairman has been quite taken with the amount of influence he enjoys in the GOP conference well beyond his committee purview. House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) has effectively made Ryan his tea party whisperer, and his votes are watched closely by establishment and conservative House Republicans alike.
“He’s really now wearing two hats,” said former GOP Rep. Vin Weber (R-Minn.). “He’s chairman of a committee, but he’s also an unelected member of the leadership.”



Interesting...

 

[Assuredcw]

Yet the House Budget Committee under Paul Ryan is doubling down on those upper bracket tax cuts...

Obama will propose cuts to entitlement programs in new budget - latimes.com

A senior administration official said that the president’s budget, which he will send to Congress next week, was not his “ideal deficit reduction plan,” but also said, “This is a compromise proposal built on common ground, and the president felt it was important to make it clear that the offer still stands.”

But the official, who was granted anonymity to discuss the budget before it is released, also stressed, “The president has made clear that he is willing to compromise and do tough things to reduce the deficit, but only in the context of a package like this one that has balance and includes revenues from the wealthiest Americans and that is designed to promote economic growth."

Republicans, however, have shown no inclination to consider new tax revenues. Boehner and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) have said tax hikes are off the table.

I do not agree that Social Security adds to the deficit. But the interest on the debt DOES add to the deficit, so if you can offer a symbolic carrot to the other side to get them to agree to more revenues, I see the strategy in it. I also see that these people are doing the Paul Ryan thing again. The election is over, but he is doubling down on the policies he lost on.

 

[GarfieldJL]

Oh, and taxes for middle class taxpayers will go up, because THEY will lose deductions. Paul Ryan won't tell us which ones, because apparently "the peasants" aren't supposed to know what is supposed to happen. But the Capital Gains people don't mind -- they aren't the ones who depend on, or qualify for, deductions, are they?

That's why the rates are being lowered...

It could also be argued that people would end up making more money because they aren't spending as much time nor do they need as many medications for anxiety, because they are no longer tearing their hair out trying to figure out the overly complex tax code...

There is a phrase that Engineers are supposed to take to heart: K.I.S.S.

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid

Making things overly complex particularly for the average person, is just asking for problems.

 

[Assuredcw]

That's why the rates are being lowered...

It could also be argued that people would end up making more money because they aren't spending as much time nor do they need as many medications for anxiety, because they are no longer tearing their hair out trying to figure out the overly complex tax code...

There is a phrase that Engineers are supposed to take to heart: K.I.S.S.

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid

Making things overly complex particularly for the average person, is just asking for problems.

If you are not even the SLiGHTEST bit curious which deductions are going bye bye in Ryan's new Plan, then I have absolutely nothing to say to you. Have a good day.

 

[[serious]]

That's why the rates are being lowered...

It could also be argued that people would end up making more money because they aren't spending as much time nor do they need as many medications for anxiety, because they are no longer tearing their hair out trying to figure out the overly complex tax code...

There is a phrase that Engineers are supposed to take to heart: K.I.S.S.

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid

Making things overly complex particularly for the average person, is just asking for problems.

I'd be more anxious about losing the mortgage interest deduction than I would be about filing the mortgage interest deduction.

 

[GarfieldJL]

If you are not even the SLiGHTEST bit curious which deductions are going bye bye in Ryan's new Plan, then I have absolutely nothing to say to you. Have a good day.

I want a lot of the loop holes eliminated, they are causing far too many problems and giving rise to too many special interest groups... As far as the mortgage deduction, I suspect at the end of the day, it would still be in existence...

 

[Assuredcw]

I want a lot of the loop holes eliminated, they are causing far too many problems and giving rise to too many special interest groups... As far as the mortgage deduction, I suspect at the end of the day, it would still be in existence...

Whatever. You obviously don't care, but you don't speak for the rest of us. It is one thing to participate in a dialogue, but deductions are important to a lot of us, and that concern isn't going to go away just because YOU won't recognize it.

 

[GarfieldJL]

Whatever. You obviously don't care, but you don't speak for the rest of us. It is one thing to participate in a dialogue, but deductions are important to a lot of us, and that concern isn't going to go away just becauce YOU won't recognize it.

Actually I do care, I just won't go into an emotional panic attack because MSDNC tells me to.

 

[Assuredcw]

Actually I do care, I just won't go into an emotional panic attack because MSDNC tells me to.

I have quoted any number of actual publications, and have not simply posted video from cable commentary shows. But you appear to have preconceived ideas about middle income people, that they WATCH TELEVISION and do not read. I am sorry to hear that.

 

[Assuredcw]

.

 

[GarfieldJL]

I have quoted any number of actual publications, and have not simply posted video from cable commentary shows. But you appear to have preconceived ideas about middle income people, that they WATCH TELEVISION and do not read. I am sorry to hear that.

The problem is that a lot of these so called sources have been coordinating what to say.

Most media outlets use the New York Times as the planned talking points for the day; that and AP.

Assuredcw, Paul Ryan's budget essentially revolved around cutting spending, not tax hikes... Simply trying to hose the rich is not going to solve anything, the problem is spending is completely out of control, tax hikes will just add to the problem.

 

[Assuredcw]

The problem is that a lot of these so called sources have been coordinating what to say.

Most media outlets use the New York Times as the planned talking points for the day; that and AP.

Assuredcw, Paul Ryan's budget essentially revolved around cutting spending, not tax hikes... Simply trying to hose the rich is not going to solve anything, the problem is spending is completely out of control, tax hikes will just add to the problem.

Yes, we know that this is is your opinion. But HOSING the middle class is going to LOSE the election, every time. Paul Ryan lost as soon as people realized that he had no intention of correcting the artificially low tax rates at the upper end, combined with multiple LOST DEDUCTIONS for middle income people. We used to be able to deduct LOAN interest and not just MORTGAGE loans, for example. He is doubling down on even lower rates and even fewer deductions, and we are not stupid. The idea is to get us lower income people to pay MORE (literally more, as in a beginning tax rate of 25% for middle class people as opposed to 15% for Capital Gains), and upper-income people to pay LESS. If you think for one minute that people would be stupid enough to vote for that, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Assuredcw]

I want a lot of the loop holes eliminated, they are causing far too many problems and giving rise to too many special interest groups... As far as the mortgage deduction, I suspect at the end of the day, it would still be in existence...

How about oil subsidies?

 

[GarfieldJL]

Yes, we know that this is is your opinion. But HOSING the middle class is going to LOSE the election, every time. Paul Ryan lost as soon as people realized that he had no intention of correcting the artificially low tax rates at the upper end, combined with multiple LOST DEDUCTIONS for middle income people. We used to be able to deduct LOAN interest and not just MORTGAGE loans, for example. He is doubling down on even lower rates and even fewer deductions, and we are not stupid. The idea is to get us lower income people to pay MORE, and upper-income people to pay LESS. If you think for one minute that people would be stupid enough to vote for that, then I don't know what to tell you.

You need to stop drinking the kool-aid, Paul Ryan has not been out to hose the middle class, he has not been out to toss grandma off a cliff, he never has...

From a 2012 article:
Let's start with where we are right now. The average American household has 2.6 people and lives on just under $50,000 per year. Under the current tax code, it pays 10% of its income up to $17,400 and 15% of everything above that. After the standard deduction of $11,900, this comes to $4,845 in base taxes, not including exemptions and tax credits.

Ryan's plan streamlines the tax code, condensing the current six tax brackets into just two: 10% and 25%. The plan doesn't specify where the cutoff line between the two brackets would lie, but it seems reasonable to expect that it would stay somewhere near where the 25% bracket currently hits in, at $70,700 for a married couple filing jointly.

If that was the case, and if the standard deduction stayed the same, the average household would see an immediate drop in its base tax rate. A couple filing jointly would pay $3,810 -- a savings of $1,035 when compared to their base tax rate under the current code. While not the stunning $265,000 that the average millionaire household would save under the Ryan plan, it is nonetheless a nice chunk of change.

What Paul Ryan's Budget Plan Would Mean for an Average Family - DailyFinance

So the media wasn't completely honest back in the 2012 elections and you're expecting them to be honest about it now?!?!


Seriously, Paul Ryan has been pushing to lower the base rate percentage that you have to pay while eliminating deductions...

You and others have made a rather basic mistake, you have falsely assumed that Paul Ryan intends to keep the tax rate % the same, when in fact he intends to lower it... That means you could end up paying the exact same amount as you are currently despite the fact the mortgage deduction is eliminated, all that's changed is you have less paperwork to fill out...

You have basically been in a panic for absolutely no reason...

 

[Assuredcw]

You need to stop drinking the kool-aid...

You need to stop being disrespectful. I'm not going to tell you again.