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The Religious Liberty to Support Same Sex Marriage...

WarriorAngel

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and the tearing of the veil was specifically to announce this new covenant of faith, where no longer would man need a priest to represent him to god,
That wasn't the point - of the veil.
It meant mankind could be forgiven - whereas once a year a priest would go behind the veil offer up incense and prayers for the ppl. And anyone else would die if they entered.
Christ didnt demolish the priesthood - because all thru the NT - is the establishment of Christ's priesthood.


Nietzscheiswrong

If S&G is folklore - then every single prophet who used their death and lifestyle were then false prophets?...which would truly remove much of the Bible? Including the words of Christ and His Apostles? Yes.
The Bible isnt folklore... and thats where many err in these modern atrocities ppl are putting out there. Be prudent and avoid anything that suggests Genesis was folklore.

~~~~~~
Genesis 13:13
And the men of Sodom were very wicked, and sinners before the face of the Lord, beyond measure.



Deuteronomy 29:23
Burning it with brimstone, and the heat of salt, so that it cannot be sown any more, nor any green thing grow therein, after the example of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha, Adama and Seboim, which the Lord destroyed in his wrath and indignation:


Deuteronomy 32:32
Their vines are of the vineyard of Sodom, and of the suburbs of Gomorrha: their grapes are grapes of gall, and their clusters most bitter.





Isaias (Isaiah) 13:19
And that Babylon, glorious among kingdoms, the famous pride of the Chaldeans, shall be even as the Lord destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha.


Isaias (Isaiah) 3:9
The shew of their countenance hath answered them: and they have proclaimed abroad their sin as Sodom, and they have not hid it: woe to their souls, for evils are rendered to them.




Jeremias (Jeremiah) 50:40
As the Lord overthrew Sodom and Gomorrha, and their neighbour cities, saith the Lord: no man shall dwell there, neither shall the son of man inhabit it.




Jeremias (Jeremiah) 23:14
And I have seen the likeness of adulterers, and the way of lying in the prophets of Jerusalem: and they strengthened the hands of the wicked, that no man should return from his evil doings: they are all become unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrha.


Jeremias (Jeremiah) 49:18
As Sodom was overthrown and Gomorrha, and the neighbours thereof, saith the Lord: there shall not a man dwell there, and there shall no son of man inhabit it.




Amos 4:11
I destroyed some of you, as God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha, and you were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet you returned not to me, saith the Lord.


Sophonias (Zephaniah) 2:9
Therefore as I live, saith the Lord of hosts the God of Israel, Moab shall be as Sodom, and the children of Ammon as Gomorrha, the dryness of thorns, and heaps of salt, and a desert even for ever: the remnant of my people shall make a spoil of them, and the residue of my nation shall possess them.


Lamentations 4:6
Vau. And the iniquity of the daughter of my people is made greater than the sin of Sodom, which was overthrown in a moment, and hands took nothing in her.




Matthew 10:15
Amen I say to you, it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.



[Christ is speaking above of the FUTURE iniquities...which will be greater than S&G] - we are the future from that time.



Jude 1:7
As Sodom and Gomorrha, and the neighbouring cities, in like manner, having given themselves to fornication, and going after other flesh, were made an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.....
[8] In like manner these men also defile the flesh, and despise dominion, and blaspheme majesty. [9] When Michael the archangel, disputing with the devil, contended about the body of Moses, he durst not bring against him the judgment of railing speech, but said: The Lord command thee. [10] But these men blaspheme whatever things they know not: and what things soever they naturally know, like dumb beasts, in these they are corrupted.

'Other' flesh is other than nature intended...aka SSA acts they wanted with the angels.



Luke 17:29
And in the day that Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

Matthew 11:23
And thou Capharnaum, shalt thou be exalted up to heaven? thou shalt go down even unto hell. For if in Sodom had been wrought the miracles that have been wrought in thee, perhaps it had remained unto this day.




Romans 1

[21] Because that, when they knew God, they have not glorified him as God, or given thanks; but became vain in their thoughts, and their foolish heart was darkened. [22] For professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. [23] And they changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of the image of a corruptible man, and of birds, and of fourfooted beasts, and of creeping things. [24] Wherefore God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness, to dishonour their own bodies among themselves. [25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie; and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
[26] For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. [27] And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error. [28] And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient; [29] Being filled with all iniquity, malice, fornication, avarice, wickedness, full of envy, murder, contention, deceit, malignity, whisperers, [30] Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [31] Foolish, dissolute, without affection, without fidelity, without mercy. [32] Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them.



The reference to death is the soul's death - the second death - hell.


To even suggest S&G is folklore shows precisely the lack of Biblical knowledge.

S&G were examples - throughout history of Judaism. Not because it wasnt real - one cannot hope to accomplish an example from something made up - for even Christ spoke of them as being real.

Be careful how you presume the scriptures to be false.
 
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WarriorAngel

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The first was the successful ascent of Mt. Everest, the highest mountain in the world. Sir Edmund Hillary and his guide, Tenzing Norgay, reached the summit that year, an accomplishment that's still considered the ultimate feat for mountain climbers. Since then, more than a thousand mountaineers have made it to the top, and each year hundreds more attempt it.

You should google dead bodies Mt Everest. :o I still wonder how it was ppl left others behind - one man died while others were going up... leaving him there where they found him. [in some cave like area]



Back to 'being born gay' - ask them at what age they 'knew' - most i know can go back to age 5. The same age psychology states is the last of the formative years.
One can say they were gay as long as 'they can remember' but most ppl at that age do not think sexually. Nor are they aware of sexuality. At age 5 if they felt an attraction - it was as research studies showed - usually from some type of trauma with the same sex parent. [Neglect, abuse...etc]
 
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WarriorAngel

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...and neither is it literal.
It is literal - or Christ lied...as well as the Apostles. Then Muhammad is correct? Or John Smith? Or Ellen White?

It is literal. And quoted by Christ as literal - including the quotes of the flood by the Apostles.

The Bible is:
1-Historical
2-Allegorical
3-Literal

This is what we are taught in class. If you think you know better - take it up with the Church.
 
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sean michael

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I would submit, and easily win the debate, that science has effectively proved Darwin wrong, based on present cell research. It was a good idea when science was a philosophy, but now we have science in our science, and we know the complexity of the cell is so far beyond what Darwin could have even tried to fathom. He would today admit that evolution was a neat idea, as every truenscientist does today. Science has never proven evolution, and still considers it a theory. It is those looking on to discredit got who claim evolution has been proven, not scientists. The best answers for how salt water became a cell, from the 2 leading most renouned evolutinists, are 1) it rode on the backs of crystals, and 2) aliens planted the cell on earth. If poor Darwin were alive today, he would defend his good name by distancing himself and his works from the idiocy of these so called experts who have absolutely no worldly clue as to how the cell came to be
 
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MikeK

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It is literal - or Christ lied...as well as the Apostles. Then Muhammad is correct? Or John Smith? Or Ellen White?

It is literal. And quoted by Christ as literal - including the quotes of the flood by the Apostles.

The Bible is:
1-Historical
2-Allegorical
3-Literal

This is what we are taught in class. If you think you know better - take it up with the Church.

"The Church" doesn't state that the Bible is to be taken literally in whole, and that's what I was getting at. What is allegorical is not literal.
 
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JBMM

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I would submit, and easily win the debate, that science has effectively proved Darwin wrong, based on present cell research. It was a good idea when science was a philosophy, but now we have science in our science, and we know the complexity of the cell is so far beyond what Darwin could have even tried to fathom. He would today admit that evolution was a neat idea, as every truenscientist does today. Science has never proven evolution, and still considers it a theory. It is those looking on to discredit got who claim evolution has been proven, not scientists. The best answers for how salt water became a cell, from the 2 leading most renouned evolutinists, are 1) it rode on the backs of crystals, and 2) aliens planted the cell on earth. If poor Darwin were alive today, he would defend his good name by distancing himself and his works from the idiocy of these so called experts who have absolutely no worldly clue as to how the cell came to be
Look up what a scientific theory actually entails.

Hint: empircal evidence is required - it's not just another baseless, evidence-derived thing.

Evolution is a lot more fathomable than creationism. Do research! :)

EDIT - And, scientists don't believe aliens have anything to do with creation / evolution.

Anyway - about the OP's topic - I don't see the need for gay marriage, since marriage is traditionally for a man and a woman. *shrug*
 
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sean michael

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That wasn't the point - of the veil.
It meant mankind could be forgiven - whereas once a year a priest would go behind the veil offer up incense and prayers for the ppl. And anyone else would die if they entered.
Christ didnt demolish the priesthood - because all thru the NT - is the establishment of Christ's priesthood
~~~~~~

I'm having a hard time seeing where we disagree here. The veil separated man from god where he abode in the holy of holies, where only the high priest can enter. Now, christ is the high priest, entered into the true realm of the holy of holies forever going before God interceding on our behalf. The veil being torn from top to bottom upon the new covenant being sealed with the blood of the testator would represent the undoing of the purpose of the veil, to keep man from standing directly before god, in need of a worldly priest to do this for him. There is no mention of a new priesthood in the new testament aside from christ being the high priest. The only time paul mentions the word priest outside of referencing the levitical priesthood, is when he says he is like a priest to the people in the way that he teaches them the ways of god. That's it. I'm lacking the marriage between the new covenant which had no need for the priesthood (as the levitical priesthood was charged primarily with administering the law, which was the covenant until christ died) and the vast empire of priests who I am now told I need for salvation. I can't find it in the scriptures, and salvation, to me, seems important enough that I wouldn't take it out of gods hands and put it in the hands of men, without a really compelling reason, either from the bible, or a real good explanation, or something. Being condescended by a priest when I can't find the validity of a priest isn't helpful. The church can not be simply disregarded. I need answers. God doesn't want me to be a fake anything, if I'm going to believe something,ntherenhas to be a basis for my beleife.
 
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sean michael

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Look up what a scientific theory actually entails.
A theory is an idea that can reproduce the same results time after time, which is impossible with regards to evolution, so it fails even the most elementary scientific requirements to be considerednantheory. The only reason I gave it theory status is because that is as far as science has acknowledged it.

Hint: empircal evidence is required - it's not just another baseless, evidence-derived thing.

Evolution is a lot more fathomable than creationism. Do research! :)

Since evolution can't even be explained, it is not even in the same ballpark with intelligent design.

Watch expelled, and you will see videotaped interviews with the two most respected names in evolution admitting they have no clue, except perhaps it was aliens, or perhaps it all happened while all these protiens were "riding on the backs of crystals".

/QUOTE]

And this is why science with a prerequisite agenda of the dismissal of god will always fail. You can not put a shovel in the ground and dig up dirt and say look! The ground doesn't exist! Aliens prove it! That's why!
 
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sean michael

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Warrior, leaving a dead man on the mountain seems a bit morbid, until you ask yourself, what can I really do about it? It is crazy though. They must have been thinking that too. Wow, were like, totally leaving this dead dude here, later dead dude.
 
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But the problem is, the vast majority of the public believes in human evolution and they'll say "the evidence is overwhelming!" mocking creationists and shamanistic lunatics with no sense of proportion!

We rarely hear about the actual methods for these folks that are "aging/dating" the universe, and the Big Bang is now spoken of as if we actually caught it on film...it's just a given now, and nobody questions it in the least.

With evolution, most people with "Darwin" and "Reason" on their bumper stickers have never even read the Origin of Species. And likewise, most people who embrace radiocarbon dating or other such methods rarely take the time to read the dubious method's reliability given the fact that environmental factors can easily screw-up the degradation rates of carbon, etc.

The public puts so much trust in theories that, in the end, it's FAITH! But they mock the faith of the Christian as paranoia and comfort-driven delusion. Sad.

I would submit, and easily win the debate, that science has effectively proved Darwin wrong, based on present cell research. It was a good idea when science was a philosophy, but now we have science in our science, and we know the complexity of the cell is so far beyond what Darwin could have even tried to fathom. He would today admit that evolution was a neat idea, as every truenscientist does today. Science has never proven evolution, and still considers it a theory. It is those looking on to discredit got who claim evolution has been proven, not scientists. The best answers for how salt water became a cell, from the 2 leading most renouned evolutinists, are 1) it rode on the backs of crystals, and 2) aliens planted the cell on earth. If poor Darwin were alive today, he would defend his good name by distancing himself and his works from the idiocy of these so called experts who have absolutely no worldly clue as to how the cell came to be
 
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sean michael

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But the problem is, the vast majority of the public believes in human evolution and they'll say "the evidence is overwhelming!" mocking creationists and shamanistic lunatics with no sense of proportion!

We rarely hear about the actual methods for these folks that are "aging/dating" the universe, and the Big Bang is now spoken of as if we actually caught it on film...it's just a given now, and nobody questions it in the least.

With evolution, most people with "Darwin" and "Reason" on their bumper stickers have never even read the Origin of Species. And likewise, most people who embrace radiocarbon dating or other such methods rarely take the time to read the dubious method's reliability given the fact that environmental factors can easily screw-up the degradation rates of carbon, etc.

The public puts so much trust in theories that, in the end, it's FAITH! But they mock the faith of the Christian as paranoia and comfort-driven delusion. Sad.

Couldn't have said it better. When Ben stien questioned one of the gods of Darwinism as to why "The Origin of Species" begins after the origin, and what the theory of the beginning of life really is, this is what he said, this is what evolution is banking on, don't laugh, he really means it.... "On The Backs of Crystals" - Michael Ruse, Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - YouTube
 
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sean michael

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And, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if i witheld this from the world. Here is THE DE FACTO GOD of Darwinism, admitting absolute cluelessness, reaching at straws, proposing aliens may have planted life on earth, and finally admitting intelligent design as a viable option!!!!!! And.... wait for it...... as long as it isn't the judeo Christian god! You evolutionists are so smart!!! :) :) :) Ben Stein vs. Richard Dawkins Interview - YouTube
 
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plmarquette

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ok... would it be ok to use a foot ball to play basket ball? or a basket ball to play baseball? ... (not how the game played, contrary to the rules ?)

oxymoron... gay and church .... Marriage is a covenant before God within a church ... a civil union is 2 people making a committment one to another before a magistrate ... (not the same thing, one invokes the blessing of God , other says separte and equal)

would you sit on the cubs side of the stadium and root for the cardinals....? would you be made welcome and congratulated for your excitement... (wrong time and place)... go to a church, submit to pastor's spin on God and bible, don't go and tell him and flock what you believe and expect them all to "snap to"

man cannot "validate" what God forbids.... preachers cannot permit, what faith teaches is contrary to the rules....Romans 1.26-7; 1 Corinthians 6.9
Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."1
Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"
1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

the spin is breaking the 1st commandment.... putting person, place, or thing as equal or in place of God... I do not care if it is or is not, it feels good, makes me happy, enjoy it.... (so too with alcoholic, drug addict, compuslive gambler, wife beater, child molestor, etc...."compulsive behavior or one possessed by evil "

biological stand point
vagina can be stretched to 5-9 inches for kids head to come out and returns to origianal size, shape, -- designed purpose and elasticiity... anus, once stretched, stays stretched, does not return to original shape, shinchter ruined, purpose violated...

genesis made male and female... go and populate the earth... cannot produce children from union man-man; female-female; trangendered - male / female; what ever you do to the body ... the genetic code XY OR XX still says male or female... regardless of what eyes see ...

arguement is not about the union, but the validation and acceptance of that union as equal to or better than , the one for male and female....
 
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BlackSepulcher

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Homosexuality is one of many things the Church simply is never going to bargain with. It is a lifestyle of idolatry, end of story.

The Church has demonstrated many times over that it doesn't matter what shape or size rock society throws at it, it's going to maintain orthodoxy. That's one of the beautiful things about the Church- it is consistent, and has to be because it's entire foundation is a pillar of dogma that cannot be contradicted.

A lot of other churches could learn from that, actually. *cough* Church of England
 
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MikeK

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Well peeps, I'm off to meet a customer then watch the redwings serve up fresh bloody shark meat in San Jose. See u Monday if they haven't banned me from the universe. Don't get too worked up. Nobody gets out of this world alive

Boo Justin Abdelkader for me!
 
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Genersis

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Homosexuality is one of many things the Church simply is never going to bargain with. It is a lifestyle of idolatry, end of story.
...

It's not a lifestyle at all.
 
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