God Question

[MystyRock]

I grew up in Baptist churches that were somewhat legalistic and controlling. Due to some "odd" circumstances, I started visiting a Methodist church for the past few months. Talking to the pastor of the church has been very interesting.

His description of God differs from what I knew. We were taught to fear God - if you had problems in your life, you must be sinning.

But Methodists believe in a more loving God? As a Methodist, how would you describe God?

 

[jacks]

Quite the question! The closest I can come is to say God is love. Though to be honest, I'm sure I don't fully understand what that means. The closest I come is that feeling one gets that is indescribable bliss. "Joy unspeakable and full of glory."

 

[BryanW92]

We believe in the three forms of Grace. God is a God who loves you enough to cover you with grace before you even know Him. Then, He calls you to Him and after you accept the call, He helps to perfect you. That's the simplified version. There's a lot more.

We definitely see God different than the Baptists. I wouldn't be anything but a Methodist (or at least Wesleyan).

 

[CallingInTheDesert]

God is pure goodness, which is pure agape love, which is Truth in action. All goodness is in God. All Truth is in God. All pure agape Love is only in God. All grace is from God. All justice is in God. God is everything Everlasting Life. God is the one and only High Priest. God is the Way to all these things.

People can come to God/Christ out of fear, but they cannot grow in God out of fear, but only can grow in God within His Love, Truth, and Grace. These three cannot be separated from God and cannot be separated from each other. Love, Truth, and Grace are One, just like the Trinity is One.

 

[JCFantasy23]

I grew up in Baptist churches that were somewhat legalistic and controlling. Due to some "odd" circumstances, I started visiting a Methodist church for the past few months. Talking to the pastor of the church has been very interesting.

His description of God differs from what I knew. We were taught to fear God - if you had problems in your life, you must be sinning.

But Methodists believe in a more loving God? As a Methodist, how would you describe God?

Well I have been struggling with sin a lot more lately (and failing), but my life is pretty blessed right now. I don't think he strikes down life with horrors because we are sinning, although there it is to be acknowledged. Personally, as with most here, I believe in life-long sanctification and growth. We are always changing, evolving, learning, and improving.

 

[americanvet]

I was a Southern Baptist before becoming a United Methodist. There are big differences and tons of similarities. I would describe God as: all knowing, all loving, completely just, and all forgiving. I like the way Wesley Quadrilateral (Scripture, tradition, reason, and experience) also the views of baptism and the Lord’s Supper in the Methodist tradition.

 

[Gods4Life4Ever]

I grew up in Baptist churches that were somewhat legalistic and controlling. Due to some "odd" circumstances, I started visiting a Methodist church for the past few months. Talking to the pastor of the church has been very interesting.

His description of God differs from what I knew. We were taught to fear God - if you had problems in your life, you must be sinning.

But Methodists believe in a more loving God? As a Methodist, how would you describe God?

MystyRock,

I have to go back to a man named Peter Abelard in the 11th century to answer your question. He had an interesting view of the Trinity and of Jesus' purpose for coming to earth.

Back then, the church had two views of why Jesus came to earth. Both involved paying for humanity's sin. The first view was that Christ had come to pay humanity's sin-debt to the devil, (Augustinian), the second view was that Christ came to pay humanity's sin-debt to God, (Anselm). Abelard rejected both views and said that Jesus did not come to pay a sin-debt to anyone. Christ Jesus came to earth to provide teaching and an example of God's love for His creation. Jesus' teaching moves us to love God, who rewards that reciprocal love with forgiveness out of His love for us and our choice to return that love to Him, and because of a risen Lord and Savior's intercessory prayers on our behalf to the Father.

It has been my experience that Augustinian theology is heavy into the sin-debt and light on the love of God. Augustine of Hippo is the author of predestined election onto salvation. He is also one of the first theologians that approved of using physical force onto death to bring compliance with church doctrines. i.e. "you either do what we tell you and live like we demand or we will kill you" Sounds a bit too Islamic barbarian to me. That is not the God that I have grown to know over the years of my Christian experience.

 

[GraceSeeker]

God IS -- the source of all being.

 

[CallingInTheDesert]

The main reason that Christ came was to allow for the sharing of His Holy Spirit, which is pure love, which was first fully shared at Pentacost. But first Christ had to share His love to pay for the penalty of all and everyone's sin, so that pure love could be available to all that seek it, so that their hearts could be fully transformed from a selfish love heart to a pure agape love heart - just like God's heart. Christ came to share Himself, which is pure love. Not just a pure love to pay for our sins, but to enable His pure love to conquer all sin in each true believer's heart.

 

[MystyRock]

Yes, Methodists do view God differently - more loving, forgiving. I'm learning to see God in a new light. Also still evaluating my beliefs - asking lots of questions. Sometimes it seems like I'm rewiring my brain to new ideas!

This question has been my focus: "Who do you say I am?"

 

[GraceSeeker]

"You are the object of my love," God. (see John 3:16, Romans 5:8)

Remember that God is love and we are created in God's image in order to live in fellowship with him. The problem with sin is that is separates us from God. It is sin, that comes under judgment, not people. The whole purpose of the cross is to destroy the power of sin so that it can no longer separate us from God and that we can be restored to the relationship God has always wanted to have with us from the beginning. Check out Revelation 21 to see just how significant this is. Notice that salvation is not about flying away from the earth to go spend time in heaven, but about belonging to the God who comes to make his home with us. We are so special that God comes to make his dwelling with men (and women). We don't go to heaven; heaven literally comes down to earth.

 

[CallingInTheDesert]

We are so special that God comes to make his dwelling with men (and women). We don't go to heaven; heaven literally comes down to earth.

"Thy kindom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven"

This is the reality now for every true Christian.

 

[Gods4Life4Ever]

"You are the object of my love," God. (see John 3:16, Romans 5:8)

Remember that God is love and we are created in God's image in order to live in fellowship with him. The problem with sin is that is separates us from God. It is sin, that comes under judgment, not people. The whole purpose of the cross is to destroy the power of sin so that it can no longer separate us from God and that we can be restored to the relationship God has always wanted to have with us from the beginning. Check out Revelation 21 to see just how significant this is. Notice that salvation is not about flying away from the earth to go spend time in heaven, but about belonging to the God who comes to make his home with us. We are so special that God comes to make his dwelling with men (and women). We don't go to heaven; heaven literally comes down to earth.

Amen, Brother!

 

[Gods4Life4Ever]

"Thy kindom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven"

This is the reality now for every true Christian.

I have some misgivings with your term "true Christian".

In my view, it is like pregnant. One is or is not.

Can I say that my wife is truly pregnant, or is she just pregnant?

Is there a difference?

 

[Lovely Lane]

...as a Methodist, the following says it all, I think.


The Confession of Faith of The Evangelical United Brethren Church I-V
Article 1 - GOD;

We believe in the one true, holy and living God, Eternal Spirit, who is Creator, Sovereign and Preserver of all things visible and invisible. He is infinite in power, wisdom, justice, goodness and love, and rules with gracious regard for the well-being and salvation of men, to the glory of his name. We believe the one God reveals himself as the Trinity: Father, Son and Holy Spirit, distinct but inseparable, eternally one in essence and power.


The Articles of Religion of the Methodist Church
Article I—Of Faith in the Holy Trinity
There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body or parts, of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness; the maker and preserver of all things, both visible and invisible. And in unity of this Godhead there are three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.


Just because I understand a loving God, it also means that I may be corrected and disciplined. And sometimes in learning to be pleasing and acceptable to God the lesson cuts deep. (my 2 cent)

 

[CallingInTheDesert]

I have some misgivings with your term "true Christian".

In my view, it is like pregnant. One is or is not.

Can I say that my wife is truly pregnant, or is she just pregnant?

Is there a difference?

I understand - either a person is walking in the footsteps of Christ or they are not. Either a person has the heart of God or they don't. Either a person loves God with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength or they don't. Either a person is a of the God or of the devil. Either a person is free from sin and not sinning anymore, or they are still in bondage to sin.

You are right - either they are a Christian or they are not. I use "true Christian", because many think they are Christians when they really aren't.

Hopefully that clears up what I think is a "true Christian" is.

 

[Gods4Life4Ever]

I understand - either a person is walking in the footsteps of Christ or they are not. Either a person has the heart of God or they don't. Either a person loves God with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength or they don't. Either a person is a of the God or of the devil. Either a person is free from sin and not sinning anymore, or they are still in bondage to sin.

You are right - either they are a Christian or they are not. I use "true Christian", because many think they are Christians when they really aren't.

Hopefully that clears up what I think is a "true Christian" is.

I can agree with you up to the point of your talking about sanctification and holiness. You continually want to lump sanctification and holiness into salvation by grace through faith: a completely done deal at acceptance of Christ Jesus as personal Lord and Savior of one's life.

Your message is if one is not fully sanctified and holy as the Lord is holy, one is not really born-again, therefore not really a Christian.

THAT is where your doctrinal theory breaks down and errors from Scripture.

 

[GraceSeeker]

Gentlemen, the lady asked a question about God, not about mankind nor about our walk with God.

I apologize, I see that I threw the thread off topic when I misread her second question above. In saying that she was focusing on the question "Who do you say that I am?" for some reason I thought that was a question she was asking of herself. A re-reading of the thread shows that she is quoting the question Jesus asked of his disciples. Our last several posts really have nothing to do with this thread, so let us amend our conversation to return to the topic at hand:
Who is God?
Who do we say Jesus is?

 

[GraceSeeker]

Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, the Anointed One of God.
Jesus is the holy one of God, the Son of God, God the Son, God incarnate dwelling among us.
Jesus is the Word. He is the Word that spoke in the midst of the darkness so that through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Jesus is the Life. He is the life that give light to all mankind.
Jesus is the Light. He is the light that shines in the darkness, which the darkness cannot overcome, and gives light to everyone.
Jesus is the image of the invisible God, the uniquely generated Son of the Father in that he (along with the Spirit who proceeds from both the Father and the Son) is co-eternal with the Father.
Jesus is present today through the life and ministry of his Church which he indwells through the person of the Spirit. In the context of the Church, Jesus is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead.
Jesus is so uniquely God that all the fullness of God dwells in him and through him to reconcile all things to himself. Regardless of whether one is speaking of things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood shed on the cross, God has reconciled all these things (including humanity) by means of Jesus through whom all gain access to the Father (whether they avail themselves of that access being a question of their level of trust and submission, not God's power or grace).

 

[CallingInTheDesert]

I can agree with you up to the point of your talking about sanctification and holiness. You continually want to lump sanctification and holiness into salvation by grace through faith: a completely done deal at acceptance of Christ Jesus as personal Lord and Savior of one's life.

Your message is if one is not fully sanctified and holy as the Lord is holy, one is not really born-again, therefore not really a Christian.

THAT is where your doctrinal theory breaks down and errors from Scripture.

I can say there are the "baby" Christians who are still not mature in God and not totally following Christ - and then I can say there are the "mature" or "true" Christians that have put all their faith in God and fully obeying God out of a full love for Him.

Where does the doctrinal theory break down in this and where is there errors in Scripture in this?

God is pure agape love, which is truth in action, because God is Truth, or to say it another way - Christ is the Word.

Let us all become part of this holy Love, Truth, Word, Holiness, Righteousness as God is all these things - as we become the sons of God.