Mat 28:1 teaches Shabbat Resurrection

[WOFFED]

Under my timeline, I suggest a revised interpretation of the significance of First Fruits in relation to Messiah's fulfillment:

First Fruits (16 Aviv): Messiah presented Himself in the heavenly Temple as the wave and burnt offering to YHWH, on behalf of and to accept those who are faithful in Him.

Seems like you are loosing some credibility here when there is no scripture to support your "theory." What do you do with the scripture verse that says Yeshua was in the heart of the earth for three days and nights.

Matthew 12:40 (HCSB)
For as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

Matthew 12:40 (CJB)
For just as Yonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea-monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the depths of the earth.

 

[ananda]

Seems like you are loosing some credibility here when there is no scripture to support your "theory." What do you do with the scripture verse that says Yeshua was in the heart of the earth for three days and nights.

Messiah's body was indeed in the earth for three full days and three full nights, according to my timeline. Where His spirit was is another story altogether:

And Yehoshua, crying with a loud voice, said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said this, he gave up the ghost. - Lk 23:46

 

[WOFFED]

I believe that Messiah resurrected on *Friday evening - not Saturday evening. I believe that the women went to the tomb early on Saturday morning before sunrise. I believe that Messiah met with Peter & Cleopas on the road to Emmaus on Saturday afternoon. I believe that Messiah met with the other disciples on Saturday evening (before sunset, so still on Shabbat).

Again, for reference:

Tuesday, 14 Aviv: Last Supper RIGHT/WRONG: Last Supper began on Tuesday, 13th of Aviv (Third Day) only if they were all gathered and seated before sunset.
Tuesday afternoon, 14 Aviv: Crucifixion WRONG: Crucifixion on Wednesday afternoon, 14 Aviv
Tuesday late afternoon before sunset, 14 Aviv: Death & burial WRONG: death & burial on Wednesday late afternoon before sunset, 14 Aviv
Tuesday sunset, 15 Aviv (High Sabbath starts): The women goes to rest WRONG: now Wednesday sunset, 15 Aviv
Wednesday sunset, 16 Aviv (end of High Sabbath): The women goes to purchase spices WRONG: now Thursday sunset, 16 Aviv
Wednesday sunset through Friday sunset (beginning of weekly sabbath): Women working to turn spices into perfume
Friday late afternoon before sunset, 17 Aviv: Resurrection of Messiah & then of other saints. WRONG: Friday late afternoon before sunset still 16 Aviv
Friday sunset, 18 Aviv: Women & other disciples resting WRONG: Friday sunset is 17 Aviv, beginning of Seventh Day
Saturday early morning before sunrise, 18 Aviv: Women brought perfume to tomb & witnessed empty tomb WRONG: before sunrise, still 17 Aviv
Saturday afternoon, 18 Aviv: Messiah met with Peter & Cleopas on road to Emmaus WRONG: Saturday afternoon, still 17 Aviv
Saturday late afternoon before sunset, 18 Aviv: Messiah met with disciples. WRONG: late afternoon before sunset is still 17 Aviv

*Most think of evening hours as more like - 6pm to 10pm. Didn't you instead mean to say afternoon? Aviv 14 (Nisan 14) begins at sunset sometimes referred to as twilight. What primary source material or reliable secondary source material are you using that claims the day/hour of Yeshua's death occurred on Tuesday afternoon instead of Wednesday afternoon which is the Fourth Day of the week?

Yes, we've been through all this before of how there is an overlap of Tue/Wed on the Fourth Day which is 14 Aviv (Nisan 14). Tue afternoon before sunset is still the Third Day, 13 Aviv.However, Friday afternoon before sunset is still the Sixth Day, 16 Aviv with 17 Aviv being the Seventh Day.

Don't know about the others, but as for me I think your "theory" is tettering on apostasy.
IMO Tishri1 should temporarily close this thread for review. Especially, after your previous comment about **First Fruits (Aviv 16)" when John 20:17 and Matthew 12:40 imply otherwise. You don't present scripture to support your "theory" (Messiah's First Fruits, 16 Aviv) . Messiah told Mary Magdalene not to embrace him because He hadn't yet ascended to Heaven.

John 20:17 (CJB)
“Stop holding onto me,” Yeshua said to her, “because I haven’t yet gone back to the Father. But go to my brothers, and tell them that I am going back to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”

Matthew 12:40 (CJB)
For just as Yonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea-monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the depths of the earth.

Originally Posted by netzarim

Under my timeline, I suggest a revised interpretation of the significance of First Fruits in relation to Messiah's fulfillment:

**First Fruits (16 Aviv): Messiah presented Himself in the heavenly Temple as the wave and burnt offering to YHWH, on behalf of and to accept those who are faithful in Him.










​

 

[Avodat]

Yeah, I noticed the same thing. they are dispensational and pure churchy. I didn't see anything pertaining to Messianic Judaism at all on the site. In the SoF only two or three passages from the Tanakh cited at best. In the pages concerning the gospel nothing from the Tanakh quoted. Pure mainstream, dispensational sunday church theology as far as I could see.

Even for Church there are glaring problems. It is, largely, cultish in it's administration. But I will do as Woffed says and come back later today with specific areas that are troublesome.

Not sure why this guy was picked to pronounce on anything - does anybody know him well, that gives him a special place in advising us?

 

[SayaOtonashi]

Question what about this?

"One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God

would this show Christians have a right to worship on Sunday?

Also why would Jesus fulfilled the Law only to have a part of the old laws in the new testament. A new convent was made. God never said keep the sabbath for Christan. Also first day of the week is used in Mat 28:1. Since sabbath is 7th then Sunday is first Then again I have still much research.

 

[yedida]

Even for Church there are glaring problems. It is, largely, cultish in it's administration. But I will do as Woffed says and come back later today with specific areas that are troublesome.

Not sure why this guy was picked to pronounce on anything - does anybody know him well, that gives him a special place in advising us?

Never heard of the guy. He was probably found by someone googling to find a match to something they believe and the website happened to agree with his position. I wouldn't be surprised to find that there's nothing more to this website than that - the one article agreed with his "belief" in a particular matter.

 

[yedida]

Question what about this?

"One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God

would this show Christians have a right to worship on Sunday?

Also why would Jesus fulfilled the Law only to have a part of the old laws in the new testament. A new convent was made. God never said keep the sabbath for Christan. Also first day of the week is used in Mat 28:1. Since sabbath is 7th then Sunday is first Then again I have still much research.

Please avail yourself of our SoP before you post anything further. You are not allowed (per CF rules) to teach or debate in this forum.
To answer your question, there is absolutely nothing wrong with worshipping on Sunday or Monday or Thursday or anyday - what's wrong is not honoring God in what He commanded, Remember the Sabbath!
And the feasts that He ordained to be observed are His. If you are His then you should be obeying His commands. His commands are not found just in the New Testament and Yeshua did not teach anything new, He taught Torah, He lived Torah. Shouldn't we, as His disciples?

 

[Avodat]

*Most think of evening hours as more like - 6pm to 10pm. Didn't you instead mean to say afternoon? Aviv 14 (Nisan 14) begins at sunset sometimes referred to as twilight. What primary source material or reliable secondary source material are you using that claims the day/hour of Yeshua's death occurred on Tuesday afternoon instead of Wednesday afternoon which is the Fourth Day of the week?

Yes, we've been through all this before of how there is an overlap of Tue/Wed on the Fourth Day which is 14 Aviv (Nisan 14). Tue afternoon before sunset is still the Third Day, 13 Aviv.However, Friday afternoon before sunset is still the Sixth Day, 16 Aviv with 17 Aviv being the Seventh Day.

Don't know about the others, but as for me I think your "theory" is tettering on apostasy.
IMO Tishri1 should temporarily close this thread for review. Especially, after your previous comment about **First Fruits (Aviv 16)" when John 20:17 and Matthew 12:40 imply otherwise. You don't present scripture to support your "theory" (Messiah's First Fruits, 16 Aviv) . Messiah told Mary Magdalene not to embrace him because He hadn't yet ascended to Heaven.

John 20:17 (CJB)
“Stop holding onto me,” Yeshua said to her, “because I haven’t yet gone back to the Father. But go to my brothers, and tell them that I am going back to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”

Matthew 12:40 (CJB)
For just as Yonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea-monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the depths of the earth.

Originally Posted by netzarim

Under my timeline, I suggest a revised interpretation of the significance of First Fruits in relation to Messiah's fulfillment:

**First Fruits (16 Aviv): Messiah presented Himself in the heavenly Temple as the wave and burnt offering to YHWH, on behalf of and to accept those who are faithful in Him.










​

Read your Reps list - I have sent you message via some Reps.

 

[WOFFED]

Read you Reps list - I have sent you message via some Reps.

Do any of you agree with netzarim's figuring? Since when do the majority of Messianics believe that Yeshua's crucifixion took place on ?Tuesday, 14 Aviv?. According to netzarim's "theory" Messiah's resurrection took place late Friday afternoon (?17 Aviv?) He believes Yeshua's death occurred on Tuesday afternoon; which he believes is 14 Aviv. Yet, he doesn't seem to have any scripture or other reliable source material to support what he refers to as his "theory."


Tuesday, 14 Aviv: Last Supper RIGHT/WRONG: Last Supper began on Tuesday, 13th of Aviv (Third Day) only if they were all gathered and seated before sunset.
Tuesday afternoon, 14 Aviv: Crucifixion WRONG: Crucifixion on Wednesday afternoon, 14 Aviv
Tuesday late afternoon before sunset, 14 Aviv: Death & burial WRONG: death & burial on Wednesday late afternoon before sunset, 14 Aviv
Tuesday sunset, 15 Aviv (High Sabbath starts): The women goes to rest WRONG: now Wednesday sunset, 15 Aviv
Wednesday sunset, 16 Aviv (end of High Sabbath): The women goes to purchase spices WRONG: now Thursday sunset, 16 Aviv
Wednesday sunset through Friday sunset (beginning of weekly sabbath): Women working to turn spices into perfume
Friday late afternoon before sunset, 17 Aviv: Resurrection of Messiah & then of other saints. WRONG: Friday late afternoon before sunset still 16 Aviv
Friday sunset, 18 Aviv: Women & other disciples resting WRONG: Friday sunset is 17 Aviv, beginning of Seventh Day
Saturday early morning before sunrise, 18 Aviv: Women brought perfume to tomb & witnessed empty tomb WRONG: before sunrise, still 17 Aviv
Saturday afternoon, 18 Aviv: Messiah met with Peter & Cleopas on road to Emmaus WRONG: Saturday afternoon, still 17 Aviv
Saturday late afternoon before sunset, 18 Aviv: Messiah met with disciples. WRONG: late afternoon before sunset is still 17 Aviv

 

[Avodat]

If you read my Rep message you will understand why it is best not to post further on here.

 

[WOFFED]

Even for Church there are glaring problems. It is, largely, cultish in it's administration. But I will do as Woffed says and come back later today with specific areas that are troublesome.

Agree after reviewing their SoF. Will be surprised if he even returns my call. The only reason I called was I ran across a 72 hour article by this pastor who refers to himself as a "Messianic Christian." Wanted to give netzarim's "theory" the benefit of possibility having some merit among other Messianics. However, I'm more convinced then ever that netzarim's "theory" isn't credible regarding his "Tuesday crucifixion" and "Friday resurrection."

Not sure why this guy was picked to pronounce on anything - does anybody know him well, that gives him a special place in advising us?

Are you referring to this Messianic Christian pastor or netzarim or Daniel or me? Maybe, best to close the thread.

 

[Avodat]

Agree after reviewing their SoF. Will be surprised if he even returns my call. The only reason I called was I ran across a 72 hour article by this pastor who refers to himself as a "Messianic Christian." Wanted to give netzarim's "theory" the benefit of possibility having some merit among other Messianics. However, I'm more convinced then ever that netzarim's "theory" isn't credible regarding his "Tuesday crucifixion" and "Friday resurrection."


Are you referring to this Messianic Christian pastor or netzarim or Daniel or me? Maybe, best to close the thread.

I was referring to the Pastor. Yes the thread should close, I agree.

 

[WOFFED]

If you read my Rep message you will understand why it is best not to post further on here.

There is no indication that I have received any private message(s). Where am I suppose to locate/find your "Rep message?"

 

[WOFFED]

I was referring to the Pastor. Yes the thread should close, I agree.

I doubt he will even return my call. I should have checked out their SoF sooner, but thought he being a "Messianic Christian" ... well, guess one can't be too trusting.

What I'm wondering is why Daniel is allowed to start so many threads and basically talk down to everyone.

Anyway, this is my last post on this thread




​

 

[pat34lee]

There is no indication that I have received any private message(s). Where am I suppose to locate/find your "Rep message?"

Look under your name on the top right of the page and go down to Blessings and hit 'Check'. Then go to the very bottom of the page on the left side and look for 'Your Reputation' and click on it.

 

[Avodat]

It wasn't a PM. Do as P34L says or, a quicker way, is to look on the long blue line under your name at the head of the page, on the left of it you will see the words USER CP click on that and your reps will be shown along with who has given them, and any comments they have made.

Enjoy reading what people have said to you. If you want to give someone Reps you can use the light bulb at top right of their post and write any message in the popup box, and then click ok. If you watch your rep number, and see it grow, that means someone has given you some reps - repeat the above process to see what they said.

 

[visionary]

There is no indication that I have received any private message(s). Where am I suppose to locate/find your "Rep message?"

I click on "User CP" which you will see at the top of the page j[on the blue strip on the far left]... IT will open up to all the ongoing threads where you have posted on... scroll down and you will see the "Rep" and any messages given with it.

 

[Avodat]

I doubt he will even return my call. I should have checked out their SoF sooner, but thought he being a "Messianic Christian" ... well, guess one can't be too trusting.

What I'm wondering is why Daniel is allowed to start so many threads and basically talk down to everyone.

Anyway, this is my last post on this thread





​

First thing I do is to look and see what they believe - it is good to know what you are being fed.

Regarding other things - it is in hand is all I can say

 

[ContraMundum]

Exactly - that is why I haven't bothered to comment on some doubtful theology consequential to his proposed changes to The Book. He seems to be imposing on us, via his threads, material used for books he claims to have written. It is a subtle form of advertising.

If I wanted to know what he thinks, I'd buy his books. However, material written by a non-academic that has not been submitted to peer review is not what I would choose to spend my book grant on when there is so much other material that disagrees with him on my bookshelf.

Right. In our occupation one always has bigger fish to fry, stuff that actually makes a difference to people.

Yonah is a tzaddik. He's completely owned on this thread, showing the patience of Job and I commend him for the stamina to do what I really have no time for.

 

[Avodat]

Right. In our occupation one always has bigger fish to fry, stuff that actually makes a difference to people.

Yonah is a tzaddik. He's completely owned on this thread, showing the patience of Job and I commend him for the stamina to do what I really have no time for.

Yonah certainly knows his stuff but, for any of us, when you are up against the unteachable you have to decide how much time to give to them - or to move on to those who are eager to hold sensible debates and to learn from others who have spent years, themselves, mastering these various things.

I have enough to be getting on with, like you, than to spend as many hours as Daniel et al will take from us in futile debate. Someone who is so bound up in their own limited knowledge will never see how foolish they look to people in the world. A good maxim I hold to is 'never argue with a fool - those looking on may not be able to tell the difference'. The logic being that you'll never win against a fool...and you'll look a fool for trying.