If God asks....

[Davian]

Thank you for clarifying what you were asking. We are stepping away from my agnostic inclinations, because as I have already stated, they lead to an unlivable life.

Now, as for the transistor effect, I have no idea what it is, but if I can go with your explanation of "it is basically what makes your computer work," I can state that it is a fact that my computer works. Is that what you are asking? Likewise, it is a fact that planes fly.

No, not that your computer works; I am referring to *how* it works. How planes can fly. You didn't want to use the word 'notions', and I don't think many would like to fly in a plane that was designed around 'guesses'. What word do you use for that information that is falsifiable yet can can be used to make computers work, or jet airplanes fly?

 

[Tomk80]

To get into your question fully, I may have to ask you for your definition of gravity. If we are using gravity simply to mean that things fall to the floor when dropped inside my office, I can say that it is a fact...yes, I just tested it.

Yet it might potentially be falsified tomorrow. Ie, if you are dropping a thing in your office tomorrow, potentially it might not fall.

 

[Max S Cherry]

No, not that your computer works; I am referring to *how* it works. How planes can fly. You didn't want to use the word 'notions', and I don't think many would like to fly in a plane that was designed around 'guesses'. What word do you use for that information that is falsifiable yet can can be used to make computers work, or jet airplanes fly?

I see. We are discussing the hows and causes of things. That makes it a little different, and it also makes it a little more difficult to answer.

If you are suggesting that those things causing a computer to work and a plane to fly are facts while also suggesting that they are open to falsification, I think that puts them into the category of a guess, a belief, and/or opinion. Now, in normal conversation, people probably would not call them guesses, but I imagine they would lean more towards words such as theory, principle, or some such. I agree with that. I think it basically means guess, but it sounds more concrete.

It seems to be the same as the situation in which we discussed the scientist with his belief that a planet was orbiting a star.

So while the causes of the plane flying and the computer working are not facts, that the plane flies and that the computer works are a facts.

 

[Max S Cherry]

Yet it might potentially be falsified tomorrow. Ie, if you are dropping a thing in your office tomorrow, potentially it might not fall.

I agree with you. The possibility is there, and it is the reason that I stated that I was having to leave my hardcore agnosticism behind in the discussion.

 

[Davian]

I see. We are discussing the hows and causes of things. That makes it a little different, and it also makes it a little more difficult to answer.

If you are suggesting that those things causing a computer to work and a plane to fly are facts while also suggesting that they are open to falsification, I think that puts them into the category of a guess, a belief, and/or opinion. Now, in normal conversation, people probably would not call them guesses, but I imagine they would lean more towards words such as theory, principle, or some such. I agree with that. I think it basically means guess, but it sounds more concrete.

It seems to be the same as the situation in which we discussed the scientist with his belief that a planet was orbiting a star.

So while the causes of the plane flying and the computer working are not facts, that the plane flies and that the computer works are a facts.

So you think that the Airbus A380 was designed and engineered based on guesses?

 

[Max S Cherry]

So you think that the Airbus A380 was designed and engineered based on guesses?

Here we go again. Let us go back a couple of steps.

Do we agree that facts are indisputable and that you had to add your modifier of "to date" in order to make them suitable for your usage?

If a fact is, as I understand it, indisputable, planes are designed and engineered on guesses, beliefs, and/or opinions.

If a fact is, as you modify it, indisputable to date, planes are designed and engineered on facts.

What I have discovered in our discussions and in my discussions with others is that I put more value on the word "guess" than many others. It may seem as though the word "fact" is the primary issue, but I think "guess" is the word we have the most difficulty with. Sure a guess can be a simple thing such as when I flip a coin and call heads, but a guess can be more than just that. A great deal of thought can go into a guess, and I suspect such is the case with flight and computing.