Did Christ really pay the sin debt?

[Stryder06]

So then... a debt was owed to who? God the Father? It was Christ that created them. It was Christ that made them leave.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

The Father Created all things through Christ (John 1:3, Col 1:16). And I do believe their exile was a joint agreement?

22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Col 2:14
he canceled the unfavorable record of our debts with its binding rules and did away with it completely by nailing it to the cross.
TEV

Col 2:14
having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
NASU

Coloss 2 is deep

http://www.christianforums.com/t7444955-17/#post54224148
Col.2{16} uhhh...cording to scripture

Originally Posted by RibI Col. 2:14 is one verse people love to use to try to say that Paul did away with God’s Law. We need to understand what this verse is really talking about.,,,,,,,,,

Canceled, blotted-out, rubbed-out

#1813 used 5 times in 5 verses according to ISA.

1 time each in Acts and Coloss 2, 3 times in Revelation.

Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

Colo 2:14 Out-rubbing/blotting-out/exaleiyaV <1813> (5660) the against us hand-writing to the decrees/dogmasin <1378> which was hostile/opposed/upenantion <5227> to us,
and has taken away out of the midst, nailing it to the stauros.

Reve 21:4 And He shall be out-rubbing/exaleiyei <1813> every tear out of the eyes of them, and the death not shall be still, neither mourning neither clamor neither misery, not it shall be still.
That the former things pass away/aphlqon <565> (5627).

Strong's Number G1813 matches the Greek &#7952;&#958;&#945;&#955;&#949;&#8055;&#966;&#969; (exaleiph&#333, which occurs 6 times in 5 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

1813. exaleipho ex-al-i'-fo from 1537 and 218; to smear out, i.e. obliterate (erase tears, figuratively, pardon sin):--blot out, wipe away.
1537. ek ek or ex ex a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative; direct or remote):--
218. aleipho al-i'-fo from 1 (as particle of union) and the base of 3045; to oil (with perfume):--anoint.

 

[bugkiller]

Yes, and how is that debt paid?

The wicked are lost because they remain wicked. That's all that separates a saint from a sinner. One truns fromt their wickedness and leans of Christ. The other embraces their wickedness and spurns the sacrifice made on their behalf. For the second of the two, a debt remains. What is that debt?

No, no, works are not what seperates the wickked form the righteous.

bugkiller

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

The Father Created all things through Christ (John 1:3, Col 1:16). And I do believe their exile was a joint agreement?

22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Christ created all things. You're using the Jewish interpretation.

Jhn 1:1-3 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Col 2:14
he canceled the unfavorable record of our debts with its binding rules and did away with it completely by nailing it to the cross.
TEV

Col 2:14
having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
NASU

This just goes to show that some translations of scripture are better than others.

The Orthodox Churches translated that as 'blotting out the handwriting of our sins' from the TR.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Hentenza]

Hello Henry.

You mean like this?



Try it like this.



It doesn't infer that payment was made 'to' anyone. Just that his death is the 'price of release' from out suffering.

This wasn't 'someone' holding us captive, but rather 'something' (death) holding us captive.

You've read On the Incarnation of the Word by St. Athanasius, Archbishop of Alexandria (c.296-c.373) havn't you?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

The word Hilasmos (propitiation) means "to satisfy God on behalf of the sinner" and is found in both 1 John 2:2 and 1 John 4:10. Hilasterion (another Greek term for propitiation) is also used in two texts, Heb. 9:5 and Romans 3:25. A third word, Hilaskomai, meaning "to propitiate", "to satisfy", or "to expiate" is also used twice with one meaning to "be merciful (Luke 18:13) and the other pointing to Christ (Heb. 2:17).

What was required to satisfy God on behave of the sinner? Why a need for propitiation if no debt was owed?

 

[Optimax]

This just goes to show that some translations of scripture are better than others.

The Orthodox Churches translated that as 'blotting out the handwriting of our sins' from the TR.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

All translations show that something was against us that we could not remove which Jesus took, cleared, removed.

That is the paying of a debt.

Col 2:14

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
KJV

Col 2:14

14 Having cancelled and blotted out and wiped away the handwriting of the note (bond) with its legal decrees and demands which was in force and stood against us (hostile to us). This [note with its regulations, decrees, and demands] He set aside and cleared completely out of our way by nailing it to [His] cross.
AMP

 

[Tiredknight]

Christ created all things. You're using the Jewish interpretation.



God be gracious to me a sinner.

Quick note... God did not create everything...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

All translations show that something was against us that we could not remove which Jesus took, cleared, removed.

That is the paying of a debt.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
KJV

Col 2:14 Having cancelled and blotted out and wiped away the handwriting of the note (bond) with its legal decrees and demands which was in force and stood against us (hostile to us). This [note with its regulations, decrees, and demands] He set aside and cleared completely out of our way by nailing it to [His] cross.
AMP

I put that verse up earlier, along with the greek text

http://www.christianforums.com/t7714267/#post62139145




.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Quick note... God did not create everything...

Ok.. how do you get around the opening of John chapter 1?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Tiredknight]

Ok.. how do you get around the opening of John chapter 1?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

So you are telling me God created sin?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This just goes to show that some translations of scripture are better than others.

The Orthodox Churches translated that as 'blotting out the handwriting of our sins' from the TR.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

The word "SINS" does not appear in the greek text bro


.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

All translations show that something was against us that we could not remove which Jesus took, cleared, removed.

That is the paying of a debt.

Col 2:14

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
KJV

Col 2:14

14 Having cancelled and blotted out and wiped away the handwriting of the note (bond) with its legal decrees and demands which was in force and stood against us (hostile to us). This [note with its regulations, decrees, and demands] He set aside and cleared completely out of our way by nailing it to [His] cross.
AMP

That link that I gave... have you ever read it? Even just chapter 2?

This is really all symantecs, and I think, at some level we're all on the same page.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

The word "SINS" does not appear in the greek text bro


.

True enough... it is implied in the one word given for that whole phrase.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

So you are telling me God created sin?

Ah... sin is not a creation. It is the negation of creation. The reversal of creation.

All things that were created, were created by God.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus The word "SINS" does not appear in the greek text bro

True enough... it is implied in the one word given for that whole phrase.

.

I can "hang" with that


..

 

[Tiredknight]

Ah... sin is not a creation. It is the negation of creation. The reversal of creation.

All things that were created, were created by God.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Where does that come from? that is not a biblical doctrine at all...

 

[Tiredknight]

Ah... sin is not a creation. It is the negation of creation. The reversal of creation.

All things that were created, were created by God.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

grape fruits weren't created by God...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by OrthodoxyUSA Ah... sin is not a creation. It is the negation of creation. The reversal of creation.

Where does that come from? that is not a biblical doctrine at all...

grape fruits weren't created by God...

Why do you use 2 seperate posts to respond to the same post?
Just curious...



.

 

[Tiredknight]

Why do you use 2 seperate posts to respond to the same post?
Just curious...



.

Initial reaction... after thought and forgot about the edit button. it is early in the morning and I am just now getting coffee.