Did Christ really pay the sin debt?

[OrthodoxyUSA]

The wages of sin is death. This means the sinner has to make payment (thus a debt is owed). The explanation provided by you doesn't seem to say much of anything in that agrees with what the bible says.

IOW ~ What you get when you sin is death.

If I get drunk and fall down and scrape my knees, do I owe a debt?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Hentenza]

There is no such thing as a sin debt.





God be gracious to me a sinner.

So why was there a need for a ransom?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by OrthodoxyUSA Have you ever read: Sinners in the hands of an angry God?

Can't say that I have. I'm not big on reading sermons

I am not much of an avid book reader myself.

I generally just wait for movies to come out on them

Kindgdom Bible Studies Lambs Book of Life Part 1

According to the Emphatic Diaglott the correct rendering of the latter part of this passage is: "The Book of the Life of the Lamb." Now, what is meant by this term – THE BOOK OF THE LIFE OF THE LAMB? The wise man said, "...of the making of many books there is no end..." (Eccl. 12:12).

The book stores are filled to overflowing today with all types of books dealing with every aspect of earthly life. Even in the church world there are books setting forth every kind of viewpoint relating to God, the Bible, doctrine, Christian experience, and church order.

However the subject material of most of these books largely contains a message of religious tradition and spiritual death. But God is also producing a book – a book containing a message of life. For the past two millenniums God, by His Holy Spirit, has been writing portions of this Book in the minds and hearts of His people.

 

[bugkiller]

So according to most, the penalty for sin is not actually death, but is eternal torment in hell fire. If this then is the case, how is it that Christ paid our sin debt?

Welp it shows that the NC is refused. So very unfortunate.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

No such thing exists. This is bad theology.

It turns hospitals into courthouses.

For further information please see St. Athanatius' "On the Incarnation"
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/athanasius/incarnation.txt

God be gracious to me a sinner.

From personal experience I thought that is what church is.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

As I said to boomlakelady, I don't see how this answers the question. Christ being sinless isn't the question. It's the debt that had to be paid. Christ being sinless made it possible for Him to be the Perfect sacrifice to take away the sins of the world. However, if the debt that had to be paid was not death but eternal torment in hell, then how did Christ accomplish satisfying the payment?

Read Rom 6 for the physical manifestation of what happens spiritually when one is born again.

bugkiller

 

[Stryder06]

When God kicked Adam and Eve out of the garden... did he infer in any way that they owed God a debt.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Well I could answer that in detail but then it would likely take this thread way off track. Suffice it to say that I believe He did.

Blood was shed that day as Adam and Eve were covered in animal skins.

 

[bugkiller]

I most certainly agree that Christ paid the debt owed for our sins when He died. However the large majority believe that the penalty for sin is eternal burning in hell. If this is indeed the punishment, then how was that debt paid?

The OP does not suggest this. I think you are changing the topic (discussion) by changing positions.

bugkiller

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Stryder06 I most certainly agree that Christ paid the debt owed for our sins when He died. However the large majority believe that the penalty for sin is eternal burning in hell. If this is indeed the punishment, then how was that debt paid?

The OP does not suggest this. I think you are changing the topic (discussion) by changing positions.

bugkiller

Perhaps he needs to just to keep this thread going and confusing.
I would think the OP's question has been answered sufficiently...

So according to most, the penalty for sin is not actually death, but is eternal torment in hell fire. If this then is the case, how is it that Christ paid our sin debt?

.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

So why was there a need for a ransom?

Hello Henry.

You mean like this?

Mat 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Try it like this.

Mat 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a 'price of release' for many.

It doesn't infer that payment was made 'to' anyone. Just that his death is the 'price of release' from out suffering.

This wasn't 'someone' holding us captive, but rather 'something' (death) holding us captive.

You've read On the Incarnation of the Word by St. Athanasius, Archbishop of Alexandria (c.296-c.373) havn't you?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Stryder06]

IOW ~ What you get when you sin is death.

If I get drunk and fall down and scrape my knees, do I owe a debt?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Falling down when you get drunk is not what you pay. The death of your brain cells on the other hand

And with God there are only two options, life or death. Our destiny is either life eternally or death eternally, which is why Christ spoke of some living men as "dead" and as some of those who were dead as "asleep".

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Well I could answer that in detail but then it would likely take this thread way off track. Suffice it to say that I believe He did.

Blood was shed that day as Adam and Eve were covered in animal skins.

So then... a debt was owed to who? God the Father? It was Christ that created them. It was Christ that made them leave.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Falling down when you get drunk is not what you pay. The death of your brain cells on the other hand

And with God there are only two options, life or death. Our destiny is either life eternally or death eternally, which is why Christ spoke of some living men as "dead" and as some of those who were dead as "asleep".

You ever get the feeling you are preaching to the choir here?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7714267-3/#post62138755
debt...sin




.

 

[Optimax]

Falling down when you get drunk is not what you pay. The death of your brain cells on the other hand

And with God there are only two options, life or death. Our destiny is either life eternally or death eternally, which is why Christ spoke of some living men as "dead" and as some of those who were dead as "asleep".

That sin nature if not removed by being born again or from above is a "debt" we cannot pay.

A person that suffers physical death without being born again, condemns themselves to hell which is a spiritual prison for eternity.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Falling down when you get drunk is not what you pay. The death of your brain cells on the other hand

And with God there are only two options, life or death. Our destiny is either life eternally or death eternally, which is why Christ spoke of some living men as "dead" and as some of those who were dead as "asleep".

No disagreements here.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

No disagreements here.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

One good thing I like about this thread is, the Sabbath hasn't been brought up yet


.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

One good thing I like about this thread is, the Sabbath hasn't been brought up yet


.

DONT!

Uggg....

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Optimax]

Hello Henry.

You mean like this?



Try it like this.



It doesn't infer that payment was made 'to' anyone. Just that his death is the 'price of release' from out suffering.

This wasn't 'someone' holding us captive, but rather 'something' (death) holding us captive.

You've read On the Incarnation of the Word by St. Athanasius, Archbishop of Alexandria (c.296-c.373) havn't you?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Col 2:14
he canceled the unfavorable record of our debts with its binding rules and did away with it completely by nailing it to the cross.
TEV

Col 2:14
having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
NASU

 

[bugkiller]

Eternal separation from God is subsequent to the punishment, which is death. Scripture does not say that separation is the punishment. It is noteworthy to know that Christ came to save us from our sins. This was accomplished by paying the debt that we owed. By becoming sin for us, He is now able to also be our Righteousness.

This however is all for nought, if the debt has not been satisfied. And logically, IF the penalty is eternal torment in hell, then that debt remains unpaid.

I do not think you understand death.

bugkiller

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

One good thing I like about this thread is, the Sabbath hasn't been brought up yet

​

DONT!

Uggg....

.

Sorry bro...mea culpa
The SDAs are obsessed with that....

http://www.christianforums.com/t7680094/
Sabbath for Christians; Obligation or Not?



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