Did Christ really pay the sin debt?

[Stryder06]

So according to most, the penalty for sin is not actually death, but is eternal torment in hell fire. If this then is the case, how is it that Christ paid our sin debt?

 

[boomlakelady]

As mere mortals, we don't understand everything about the atonement. That's where faith comes in. When Jesus said, It is finished, that was it. How, we don't/can't understand.

 

[Keachian]

Because, he was sinless, because he was the Paschal Lamb, the sacrificial Lamb, the scapegoat. He is the sinless high priest who through his self offering has performed the eternal atoning work in the holy of holies before the Father most high. No longer is it the repetitious offering of ineffective lambs Christ has done away with all that.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

So according to most, the penalty for sin is not actually death, but is eternal torment in hell fire. If this then is the case, how is it that Christ paid our sin debt?

No such thing exists. This is bad theology.

It turns hospitals into courthouses.

For further information please see St. Athanatius' "On the Incarnation"
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/athanasius/incarnation.txt

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Stryder06]

As mere mortals, we don't understand everything about the atonement. That's where faith comes in. When Jesus said, It is finished, that was it. How, we don't/can't understand.

That doesn't really answer the question. I don't see how faith plays into it either. If the punishment (debt) for sin is eternal suffering in hell, then the debt remains unpaid.

 

[Stryder06]

No such thing exists. This is bad theology.

It turns hospitals into courthouses.

For further information please see St. Athanatius' "On the Incarnation"
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/athanasius/incarnation.txt

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Are you saying that the idea of humans having a "sin debt" doesn't exist? Just want to make sure I don't misunderstand you.

 

[Stryder06]

Because, he was sinless, because he was the Paschal Lamb, the sacrificial Lamb, the scapegoat. He is the sinless high priest who through his self offering has performed the eternal atoning work in the holy of holies before the Father most high. No longer is it the repetitious offering of ineffective lambs Christ has done away with all that.

As I said to boomlakelady, I don't see how this answers the question. Christ being sinless isn't the question. It's the debt that had to be paid. Christ being sinless made it possible for Him to be the Perfect sacrifice to take away the sins of the world. However, if the debt that had to be paid was not death but eternal torment in hell, then how did Christ accomplish satisfying the payment?

 

[Habakk]

So according to most, the penalty for sin is not actually death, but is eternal torment in hell fire. If this then is the case, how is it that Christ paid our sin debt?

Sin brings both natural and spiritual death that results in separation from God. Abraham made a blood covenant with God and as a result we read “And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him” (Genesis 15:12). This is a prophetic foreshadow of the cross. The deep sleep scripturally represents death and horror and darkness represent separation. This all took place as the sun was going down again foreshadowing the cross.

Jesus Christ made a blood covenant with the father for us and under that blood covenant he paid the price of both death and separation on the cross. If you recall he cried out “"My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?" Thus quoting Psalm 22, also a prophetic Psalm of the cross.

 

[Stryder06]

Sin brings both natural and spiritual death that results in separation from God. Abraham made a blood covenant with God and as a result we read “And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him” (Genesis 15:12). This is a prophetic foreshadow of the cross. The deep sleep scripturally represents death and horror and darkness represent separation. This all took place as the sun was going down again foreshadowing the cross.

Jesus Christ made a blood covenant with the father for us and under that blood covenant he paid the price of both death and separation on the cross. If you recall he cried out “"My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?" Thus quoting Psalm 22, also a prophetic Psalm of the cross.

I most certainly agree that Christ paid the debt owed for our sins when He died. However the large majority believe that the penalty for sin is eternal burning in hell. If this is indeed the punishment, then how was that debt paid?

 

[Keachian]

As I said to boomlakelady, I don't see how this answers the question. Christ being sinless isn't the question. It's the debt that had to be paid. Christ being sinless made it possible for Him to be the Perfect sacrifice to take away the sins of the world. However, if the debt that had to be paid was not death but eternal torment in hell, then how did Christ accomplish satisfying the payment?

It's not just about penal substitution, in fact I do allude to this, but it's about the sacrificial nature of the death of Christ. If a lamb's death could atone for the sin of a nation how much more can the humiliation of God unto death?

 

[Habakk]

I most certainly agree that Christ paid the debt owed for our sins when He died. However the large majority believe that the penalty for sin is eternal burning in hell. If this is indeed the punishment, then how was that debt paid?

If you understand the nature of ancient blood covenants, and eternal separation was part of our debt then the price was paid in full at the cross. However as Christ was the sinless sun of God, death and hell could not hold him and thus the price was paid four our debt.

Also it is worthy to note that Christ came to save us from our sins. It is because of sin that we go to hell in eternal separation from God.

I also notice that you are SDA and that Adventists believe in a doctrine of annihilation, not eternal hell. That is not standard evangelical doctrine and deviates from other mainstream Christian doctrine.

 

[Hentenza]

As I said to boomlakelady, I don't see how this answers the question. Christ being sinless isn't the question. It's the debt that had to be paid. Christ being sinless made it possible for Him to be the Perfect sacrifice to take away the sins of the world. However, if the debt that had to be paid was not death but eternal torment in hell, then how did Christ accomplish satisfying the payment?

How would eternal torment for the wicked not accomplish payment?

 

[Stryder06]

If you understand the nature of ancient blood covenants, and eternal separation was part of our debt then the price was paid in full at the cross. However as Christ was the sinless sun of God, death and hell could not hold him and thus the price was paid four our debt.

Also it is worthy to note that Christ came to save us from our sins. It is because of sin that we go to hell in eternal separation from God.

I also notice that you are SDA and that Adventists believe in a doctrine of annihilation, not eternal hell. That is not standard evangelical doctrine and deviates from other mainstream Christian doctrine.

Eternal separation from God is subsequent to the punishment, which is death. Scripture does not say that separation is the punishment. It is noteworthy to know that Christ came to save us from our sins. This was accomplished by paying the debt that we owed. By becoming sin for us, He is now able to also be our Righteousness.

This however is all for nought, if the debt has not been satisfied. And logically, IF the penalty is eternal torment in hell, then that debt remains unpaid.

 

[Stryder06]

How would eternal torment for the wicked not accomplish payment?

The question is how did Christ make that payment, if eternal torment is what's owed?

 

[Hentenza]

The question is how did Christ make that payment, if eternal torment is what's owed?

Eternal punishment is the result of wickedness not the debt. Christ paid the debt for those that are saved.

 

[Stryder06]

It's not just about penal substitution, in fact I do allude to this, but it's about the sacrificial nature of the death of Christ. If a lamb's death could atone for the sin of a nation how much more can the humiliation of God unto death?

The death of a lamb never atoned for the sins of Israel in and of themsleves. It was always symbolic, pointing to the actual death of Christ, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the earth.

 

[Hentenza]

The death of a lamb never atoned for the sins of Israel in and of themsleves. It was always symbolic, pointing to the actual death of Christ, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the earth.

Lev. 4
35 Then he shall remove all its fat, just as the fat of the lamb is removed from the sacrifice of the peace offerings, and the priest shall offer them up in smoke on the altar, on the offerings by fire to the Lord. Thus the priest shall make atonement for him in regard to his sin which he has [ab]committed, and he will be forgiven.

 

[Habakk]

Eternal punishment is the result of wickedness not the debt. Christ paid the debt for those that are saved.

Agreed, as the scripture confirms this.

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins (Matthew 1:21).

"He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption" (Acts 2:31).

 

[Habakk]

The death of a lamb never atoned for the sins of Israel in and of themsleves. It was always symbolic, pointing to the actual death of Christ, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the earth.

Yes it did. Also on the day of attonement sin was covered for one year. Now we have a one time attonment in Christ.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Are you saying that the idea of humans having a "sin debt" doesn't exist? Just want to make sure I don't misunderstand you.

I think chapter two explains the viewpoint very well.

God be gracious to me a sinner.