Commandments for Gentiles?

[mrs94]

I'm still here, lurking...enjoying checking in with you guys and reading posts. I am definitely growing and Adonai is showing me many things. It is absolutely stunning the depth of what He will show you when you are humble and seek His Face.

So, now, I'm curious. I've seen people in various places purpose that there are commandments specific for the Gentiles. Can any of you shed light on this for me? Thanks in advance.

 

[Mazock]

Some claim that the Noahide laws defined in Gen 9 are for everyone.

Here's my opinion on the subject.

As a Gentile Christian, I want to please God with all of my heart. God has told us what pleases Him in the Torah. All 613 commandments are what He's instructed His people is appropriate behaviour.

Although I'm not Jewish, I want to be in his will. Any attempt at finding some loophole is really the flesh trying to justify NOT following the Lord's commandments.

And although there ARE 613 commandments, only about 350 apply to you. A lot of the commandments are intended for the priesthood, the temple, or govenment and how to wage war. The sacrificial Laws must be performed by the priesthood, and Yeshua is our high priest.

Of those 350, several are agricultural, several are intended for women, and several are for dealing with lepers.

Do I fail to live up to those commandments? Yes. But my SALVATION is NOT works based. I try to live up to God's expectations, because I love God.

Yeshua is my SALVATION.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome - 1 John 5:3

 

[visionary]

Good question....

It is better to study that which is specific.. like the laws for women, men, levites, when temple is up and services are available, the judges ruling, etc. Once you have those set aside for those people, the rest are for the nation and the commonwealth of Israel, of which we all are.

Numbers 15:16
One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

Numbers 15:29 (NIV)
One and the same law applies to everyone who sins unintentionally, whether a native-born Israelite or a foreigner residing among you.

Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Leviticus 24:22
Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God.

 

[Avodat]

Some claim that the Noahide laws defined in Gen 9 are for everyone.

Here's my opinion on the subject.

As a Gentile Christian, I want to please God with all of my heart. God has told us what pleases Him in the Torah. All 613 commandments are what He's instructed His people is appropriate behaviour.

Although I'm not Jewish, I want to be in his will. Any attempt at finding some loophole is really the flesh trying to justify NOT following the Lord's commandments. The sacrificial Laws must be performed by the priesthood, and Yeshua is our high priest.

And although there ARE 613 commandments, only about 350 apply to you. A lot of the commandments are intended for the priesthood, the temple, or govenment and how to wage war.

Of those 350, several are agricultural, several are intended for women, and several are for dealing with lepers.

Do I fail to live up to those commandments? Yes. But my SALVATION is NOT works based. I try to live up to God's expectations, because I love God.

Yeshua is my SALVATION.

Are you a Christian or a Messianic? Your post seems very vague on this key issue. If you are a Christian you should have a Christian icon and not that of a Messianic. If you are a Messianic you shouldn't be ashamed to say so! Torah keeping is NOT salvation by works!

 

[mrs94]

Let me clarify: I wasn't trying to find a loophole and my mind was already made up that whatever commandments that could apply to me (whether they be considered "Hebrew" or "Gentile"), that I would follow, because it's like someone said, it's about what makes Him happy...not us.

I was just curious as to what you guys know about this separation and why certain commandments would NOT apply to Gentiles like Feasts and Dietary Law. It doesn't make sense to me that if eating a certain way is bad for Jews, it would not be bad for Gentiles...and, the same with celebrating the Feasts.

 

[Mazock]

But my SALVATION is NOT works based. I try to live up to God's expectations, because I love God.

Yeshua is my SALVATION.

Are you a Christian or a Messianic? Your post seems very vague on this key issue. If you are a Christian you should have a Christian icon and not that of a Messianic. If you are a Messianic you shouldn't be ashamed to say so! Torah keeping is NOT salvation by works!

To clarify, I am a Torah Observant Believer in Yeshua.

I thought I was pretty clear that Torah keeping is NOT salvation by works. I keep the Torah, because I love God.

The sentence regarding salvation by works was for the benefit of those Christians who are struggling with the concept of following the Law without it being an attempt to gain salvation.

I don't like to be classified as Christian or Messianic, and certainly not by some ICON on a computer screen.

REVISION:

OH, I thought you said "You SHOULD be ashamed of yourself". Sorry about the confusion.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Let me clarify: I wasn't trying to find a loophole and my mind was already made up that whatever commandments that could apply to me (whether they be considered "Hebrew" or "Gentile"), that I would follow, because it's like someone said, it's about what makes Him happy...not us.

I was just curious as to what you guys know about this separation and why certain commandments would NOT apply to Gentiles like Feasts and Dietary Law. It doesn't make sense to me that if eating a certain way is bad for Jews, it would not be bad for Gentiles...and, the same with celebrating the Feasts.

If you are looking for a place to start, I would go with the Noachide Laws and any supplementary commands from the Jerusalem Council of James and the elders.

If you want to take on more (a little at a time seems to work best) I see no prohibition against incorporating commandments given to Moses (using Jesus' priorities and possibly leaving commands given specifically to Israel alone).

If you haven't already, read Leviticus 19. There are a ton of really good commandments there that you may actually already be doing.

 

[Qnts2]

In the Mosaic law, different groups are specifically addressed when giving a command. The law includes specific commands for Gentiles who live among the Jewish people and/or Gentiles just travelling thru or in the land of Israel temporarily for business or pleasure. The standard terminology used is stranger (a Gentile who lives in the land of Israel) or an alien (one travelling thru).

The Mosaic law does not make mention of Gentiles outside of the land of Israel.

So, some laws are commands for the children of Israel, some for women of Israel, some for men of Israel, some for the Levites, and some laws apply to all children of Israel as well as strangers and aliens. When a specific command is for all people who are in the land, Jews and Gentiles, scripture often re-emphasizes that it is for everyone by saying the same law is for Jews and strangers (Gentiles).

The easiest law which can only be directed to the Jewish people is the law which forbids Jewish people to marry non-Jews. This is a law for the children of Israel only.

But another law which applies to all of the children of Israel, as well as the Gentiles who dwell in the land of Israel.

Lev 17:12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.

 

[Mazock]

Yeah, I would say most Christians observe 70-80% of the Torah without thinking about it.

For instance, I think there's about 10 laws to "love God with all your heart", and 40+ laws against Idol worship. (although, I think we all struggle with accidentally turning something into an idol)

Then again, there's 36 laws to observe the Sabbath and observe the Lord's Feasts...

 

[Avodat]

To clarify, I am a Torah Observant Believer in Yeshua.

I thought I was pretty clear that Torah keeping is NOT salvation by works. I keep the Torah, because I love God.

The sentence regarding salvation by works was for the benefit of those Christians who are struggling with the concept of following the Law without it being an attempt to gain salvation.

I don't like to be classified as Christian or Messianic, and certainly not by some ICON on a computer screen.

REVISION:

OH, I thought you said "You SHOULD be ashamed of yourself". Sorry about the confusion.

It is certainly disingenuous to claim both, to say the least. How does anyone know which you are at any given time? I'll treat you as a Christian since that is the title you have specifically claimed for yourself. It does make a difference - if you are a Christian you do not have teaching and debating rights on here because the rules say you must be a member of the group to hold the icon and use the privileges that gives. The scroll icon is reserved for Messianics and, as a self confessed non-Messianic, you may end up being reported. To say you will not be defined by an ICON (sic) on a screen is total nonsense - you do have such an icon, defining you as something you have claimed NOT to be!

 

[visionary]

If you are looking for a place to start, I would go with the Noachide Laws and any supplementary commands from the Jerusalem Council of James and the elders.

If you want to take on more (a little at a time seems to work best) I see no prohibition against incorporating commandments given to Moses (using Jesus' priorities and possibly leaving commands given specifically to Israel alone).

If you haven't already, read Leviticus 19. There are a ton of really good commandments there that you may actually already be doing.

I would take issue with referencing Noahide laws with the Jerusalem Council as Noahide did not exist as a separate organization with laws until the 1200's

 

[visionary]

It is certainly disingenuous to claim both, to say the least. How does anyone know which you are at any given time? I'll treat you as a Christian since that is the title you have specifically claimed for yourself. It does make a difference - if you are a Christian you do not have teaching and debating rights because they are reserved for Messianics and you may end up being reported. To say you will not be defined by an ICON (sic) on a screen is total nonsense - you have such an icon, defining you as something you have claimed NOT to be!

Really...?? I thought the whole point Trishi1 was trying to make was that we are not to talk like this

 

[Steve Petersen]

I would take issue with referencing Noahide laws with the Jerusalem Council as Noahide did not exist as a separate organization with laws until the 1200's

I do not equate them. I do not believe the Jerusalem council was referencing Noachide laws. That is why I used the words 'supplementary commands.'

 

[visionary]

I do not equate them. I do not believe the Jerusalem council was referencing Noachide laws. That is why I used the words 'supplementary commands.'

ohhh.. good... wheeeew!!!!

 

[ananda]

Good question....

It is better to study that which is specific.. like the laws for women, men, levites, when temple is up and services are available, the judges ruling, etc. Once you have those set aside for those people, the rest are for the nation and the commonwealth of Israel, of which we all are.

Agreed!

 

[Avodat]

Really...?? I thought the whole point Trishi1 was trying to make was that we are not to talk like this

Perhaps Tishri1 would be kind enough to define which this poster is: Christian or Messianic? He claims to be Christian but carries a Messinaic icon though he refuses to be defined by an icon on a computer screen (that is totally confusing - having an icon that defines him but not wanting to be defined by an icon)

Perhaps she would change the rules, too, to allow anyone with any ol' icon to teach and debate on here, as is happening if we follow what you claim she said, though I haven't seen a relaxation of rules, yet.

Utter confusion reigns now - we do not know who is genuine and who isn't.

 

[mishkan]

I'm still here, lurking...enjoying checking in with you guys and reading posts. I am definitely growing and Adonai is showing me many things. It is absolutely stunning the depth of what He will show you when you are humble and seek His Face.

I'm so glad to hear that! I've been wondering whether you were still around.

So, now, I'm curious. I've seen people in various places purpose that there are commandments specific for the Gentiles. Can any of you shed light on this for me? Thanks in advance.

I think I'd phrase this a bit differently. It isn't that there are commandments specific to Gentiles. Rather, it is a matter of which commandments are not designated for a specific non-appropriate sub-group within Israel (for instance, priests, male/female, specific professions, etc.). Commandments that only apply to the Levitical priesthood don't even apply to all Jews! Likewise those regulations that apply to how farmers gather their crops don't apply to someone who is not a farmer.

So, I'd say the better way to put this is, which laws are available to Gentiles that are not restricted to a specific subset of Israel? When asked that way, I think we get a better perspective on how to read and apply the Torah.

There are literally hundreds of laws that pertain solely to the Temple, the priesthood, and Israeli politics. Those are clearly excluded. On the other hand, there are hundreds of laws given in the Torah that are open and available to all who wish to serve Hashem faithfully. A good source to start learning these instructions can be found at Jew FAQ.

When we look objectively at the many Torah commandments relating to trust in Hashem, ethical treatment of others, diet, family, etc., we will find precious little to argue against.

 

[Mazock]

It is certainly disingenuous to claim both, to say the least. How does anyone know which you are at any given time? I'll treat you as a Christian since that is the title you have specifically claimed for yourself. It does make a difference - if you are a Christian you do not have teaching and debating rights on here because the rules say you must be a member of the group to hold the icon and use the privileges that gives. The scroll icon is reserved for Messianics and, as a self confessed non-Messianic, you may end up being reported. To say you will not be defined by an ICON (sic) on a screen is total nonsense - you do have such an icon, defining you as something you have claimed NOT to be!

HEY AVODAT!

Thanks for making me welcome on the forum. How about you go jump off a cliff.

1. Being new here, I have no idea what you're talking about.. Me being disingenuous. I'm not trying to deceive anyone.

2. I define "Christian" as someone who follows Christ aka Yeshua. I define Messianic as someone who follows Yeshua and is Torah Observant (with an interest in worshipping God from the Hebrew perspective). Why are these two viewpoints incongruous?

3. I don't understand what you mean by "claiming to be both Christian and Messianic". I only have one icon indicating that I believe I'm Messianic. Where do you see that I'm indicating both.

Thanks for the hateful post, feel free to report me at any time. Your "intolerance" is a great method of witnessing. I wonder just how many people you've lead to the Lord with that attitude?

Maz

 

[Mazock]

Avodat,

I understand that you MUST agree to the Nicene Creed to post on ANY of these forums. If you don't claim to be a Christian, you can't post on ANY of these forums.

Since you reject Christianity and only define yourself as Messianic, I'm under the understanding that you should be banned from this site entirely. Isn't that correct?

 

[Mazock]

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