did Judas actually cast out demons

[Lion King]

Addressed above.

Only those who are born again can truly love and obey Jesus, because the unregenerate sinful mind is hostile to God and does not love nor obey him because it cannot. The unregenerate cannot please God by loving and obeying Jesus. (Ro 8:7-8).

In the faith,
Clare

By the way, i noticed that you said that only a person that has been born God can truly love God and obey Christ. What do you make of this passage below:

“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved." Matthew 24:9-13


Do you believe that the love of those who have been born again can grow cold?

 

[true2theword]

By the way, i noticed that you said that only a person that has been born God can truly love God and obey Christ. What do you make of this passage below:

“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved." Matthew 24:9-13


Do you believe that the love of those who have been born again can grow cold?

you would imagine Jesus was speaking to His sheep, as He addressed them as his own disciples, even showing those who would stand firm will be saved, but obviously that has a big problem for people who want to conclude they can't turn away from sound doctrine and be led away down a path of eternal error by their own choice

 

[true2theword]

I think people can be saved, get filled with the Holy Spirit and then either their lack of dedication, or the sin in this world leads them away or the like the seed it withers and dies because it wasn't planted in good soil, people get led away by false teachings

(one of which is they can't be led away by false teaching) which should make any Christian wonder why Jesus and some of the apostles warned us of false teachers and prophets who could lead the sheep astray, why warn them if it was impossible for them to be led astray........makes no sense

 

[Lion King]

you would imagine Jesus was speaking to His sheep, as He addressed them as his own disciples, even showing those who would stand firm will be saved, but obviously that has a big problem for people who want to conclude they can't turn away from sound doctrine and be led away down a path of eternal error by their own choice

I also wonder how the OSAS advocates interpret the parable of the ten virgins (Matthew 25:1-13)? Do they claim the five foolish virgins whose oil ran out before the coming of the bridegroom were not really saved to begin with?

 

[KimberlyAA]

He may have or may not have. Not all of them may have cast out demons. The Bible talks about diff. spiritual gifts like prophecy, healing, deliverance ... he may have done some & not others who knows.

 

[Lion King]

I think people can be saved, get filled with the Holy Spirit and then either their lack of dedication, or the sin in this world leads them away or the like the seed it withers and dies because it wasn't planted in good soil, people get led away by false teachings

(one of which is they can't be led away by false teaching) which should make any Christian wonder why Jesus and some of the apostles warned us of false teachers and prophets who could lead the sheep astray, why warn them if it was impossible for them to be led astray........makes no sense

That's why I said I will never understand the OSAS doctrine. Why would God warn us about falling away if it were impossible?

 

[Lion King]

He may have or may not have. Not all of them may have cast out demons. The Bible talks about diff. spiritual gifts like prophecy, healing, deliverance ... he may have done some & not others who knows.

All 12 disciples were given power over demons, power to heal the sick and all kinds of diseases by Jesus Christ.

And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him. Matthew 10:1-4

 

[Giver]

Why sure there are many people who have and do walk in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and yet will never enter the kingdom of God.

(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

 

[Clare73]

Didn't the LORD harden Pharoah's heart only after he repeatedly refused to let the children of Israel go?

No, he told Moses before he ever sent him to Pharaoh for the first time that he would harden Pharoah's heart so that
he would not listen (Ex 4:21).

IMO, Pharoah hardened his own heart (Exodus 7:13, 22; Exodus 8:15). The LORD gave Pharoah many opportunities to set Israel free, but Pharoah remained adamant. In the end, the LORD left Pharoah to his own devices:

Why then do you harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had worked wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed? 1 Samuel 6:6

Yes, we are born with hardened hearts. Only God's grace softens them.

All God does in "hardening" hearts is simply not give them his softening grace, which he does not owe them.

In the faith,
Clare

 

[Clare73]

I'm not sure I understand?

The Holy Spirit enabled Saul to perform and act, but he did not transform Saul's heart through indwelling.

And the Spirit of the LORD came mightily on him, and he rent him as he would have rent a kid, and he had nothing in his hand: but he told not his father or his mother what he had done. Judges 14:6

Does this mean Samson had no Holy-Spirit dwelling within his heart?

Does Samson give evidence of repentance and obedience?

In the faith,
Clare

 

[Lion King]

No, he told Moses before he ever sent him to Pharaoh for the first time that he would harden Pharoah's heart so that
he would not listen (Ex 4:21).

Yes, He did. But at what point did the LORD harden Pharoah's heart?

Yes, we are born with hardened hearts. Only God's grace softens them.

All God does in "hardening" hearts is simply not give them his softening grace, which he does not owe them.

In the faith,
Clare

True.

 

[true2theword]

He may have or may not have. Not all of them may have cast out demons. The Bible talks about diff. spiritual gifts like prophecy, healing, deliverance ... he may have done some & not others who knows.

thats true! but honestly if you have been in the same room with a demon possessed person who is in full manifestation, and your an unbeliever you are by far the bravest person alive, because you would be like the only diver without a shark cage for protection


the bible is crystal clear about the danger involved in casting out demons without the covenant, trust me demons know who are covered and who are not......thats in the bible too!

 

[Clare73]

I'm still failing to see how John 3:3 and Romans 8:7-8 say that one is born of the holy-Spirit before coming to Christ?

Would you mind expanding on the above verses, or better yet, provide other clear Scriptural passages that say so?

We are born spiritually dead in Adam's sin (Ro 5:18-19), and by nature objects of God's wrath (Eph 2:3), which is removed only by faith in Jesus Christ (Jn 3:36).
We are by our fallen nature hostile and insubordinate to God, as well as spiritually powerless (Ro 8:7).

Being spiritually powerless, we not only cannot, but do not desire to, come to Christ (Ro 8:7).
Being spiritually powerless, we can't even see the kingdom of God (Jn 3:3), much less seek it.
We must be raised from spiritual death and reborn into eternal life by the Holy Spirit before we can do anything
spiritually pleasing to God.

Does that answer your question?

In the faith,
Clare

 

[Lion King]

The Holy Spirit enabled Saul to perform and act, but he did not transform Saul's heart through indwelling.

Are you saying Saul was never a child of God?

Does Samson give evidence of repentance and obedience?

In the faith,
Clare

I'm not too sure why you think a person with the Holy-Spirit in their hearts is always obedient. For instance, David had the Holy-Spirit dwelling in him, but still went and committed adultery and murder.

Cast me not away from your presence; and take not your holy spirit from me. Psalm 51:11




Both Samson and David had the Holy-Spirit in their hearts.

 

[Clare73]

By the way, i noticed that you said that only a person that has been born God can truly love God and obey Christ. What do you make of this passage below:

“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved." Matthew 24:9-13

Do you believe that the love of those who have been born again can grow cold?

No, they are the few whose love will not grow cold.

The "most" would be like those in Mt 7:21-23. Do you think they believed that they loved Jesus?
Yet he said to them, "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"

In the faith,
Clare

 

[Clare73]

I think people can be saved, get filled with the Holy Spirit and then either their lack of dedication, or the sin in this world leads them away or the like the seed it withers and dies because it wasn't planted in good soil, people get led away by false teachings

(one of which is they can't be led away by false teaching) which should make any Christian wonder why Jesus and some of the apostles warned us of false teachers and prophets who could lead the sheep astray, why warn them if it was impossible for them to be led astray........makes no sense

Warnings, admonitions, commands are how God and Jesus keep/preserve the sheep from going astray.

Those who are not the sheep do not heed the warnings, admonitions and commands, and therefore go astray.

In the faith,
Clare

 

[Lion King]

We are born spiritually dead in Adam's sin (Ro 5:18-19), and by nature objects of God's wrath (Eph 2:3).
We are by our fallen nature hostile and insubordinate to God, as well as spiritually powerless (Ro 8:7).

Being spiritually powerless, we not only cannot, but do not desire to, come to Christ (Ro 8:7).
Being spiritually powerless, we can't even see the kingdom of God (Jn 3:3), much less seek it.
We must be raised from spiritual death and reborn into eternal life by the Holy Spirit before we can do anything
spiritually pleasing to God.

Does that answer your question?

In the faith,
Clare

This still doesn't answer my question.

The Scriptures say that the LORD gifts a person the Holy-Spirit, ONCE they believe in Jesus Christ, and NOT before as you are claiming.

When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” Acts 2:37-39



The Scriptures say one has to REPENT before they can receive the Spirit of God. You, on the other hand, are saying one has to receive the Holy-Spirit before they can repent. Where you are getting that doctrine, I dunno, because the biblical passages you have quoted in your last post do not say anything of that nature.

 

[Clare73]

I also wonder how the OSAS advocates interpret the parable of the ten virgins (Matthew 25:1-13)? Do they claim
the five foolish virgins whose oil ran out before the coming of the bridegroom were not really saved to begin with?

Yes, I think we see that from symbolism in several Scriptures.

In Rev 1:13-20, the churches, people of God, are lamps.

And the born again are the light of the world whose lamps are fueled by the oil of the Holy Spirit.

The foolish virgins are lamps without oil of the Holy Spirit (see Zec 4).

In the faith,
Clare

 

[Lion King]

Warnings, admonitions, commands are how God and Jesus keep/preserve the sheep from going astray.

Those who are not the sheep do not heed the warnings, admonitions and commands, and therefore go astray.

In the faith,
Clare

So, you do admit that the sheep can go astray?

 

[Clare73]

That's why I said I will never understand the OSAS doctrine. Why would God warn us about falling away if it were impossible?

Warnings, admonitions and commands are how he keeps the sheep from falling away.

Those who are not the sheep do not heed the warnings, and therefore fall away in ignorance.

In the faith,
Clare