Deconversion

[Mr Bungle]

Something else that occurred to me was the fact that I haven't yet shared any of my doubts or feelings with my Christian friends. My non-Christian friends are well aware of my current situation, as too is my wife (obviously) who is herself a committed Christian.

I am reluctant to tell my Christian friends because I know they will feel an overriding sense of dread and doom. They will genuinely be concerned about my eternal soul. Most of them subscribe to the belief in hell. I know they will vigorously pray for me, but I don't feel like explaining in great detail why I am where I am. I appreciate I will at some point have to, but I'm not quite there yet. So I am in all intents and purposes going through the motions. I'm still going to church, I'm still fellowshipping, I'm still trying to commune with God, but it feels unnatural. I guess to those uber-charismatics out there, I am possessed and in need of deliverance. I would laugh, but people will sincerely believe that.

Perhaps that just another reason why I am so inclined to leave the faith, there is just a lot of extraneous nonsense associated with much of today's Christianity.

Again, I completely understand where you are coming from.

Here's a bit about me:

I became a Christian in 2004. For the first 1-2 years I went to church as you'd expect but I didn't really have a relationship with God.

Then around 2006 I started to backslide, and eventually stopped going to church. I completely lost interest and basically went back to the same life I'd been leading before 2004. This put a lot of stress on my marriage and family life in general.

Just before Christmas 2010 things came to a head. I can't explain what happened, but I went to church that Christmas and felt completely empty and devoid of any Christian faith. I thought my faith and marriage were basically dead & buried.

But God had other ideas for me!
I went away for a few days between Christmas and New Year, and over the course of these days I began to dawn on me that I needed to do something drastic to save my marriage and faith.

At the start of 2011, we started going to church together again as a family. And i read my Bible every day, and threw myself in to really understanding the Christian faith. I also had a very influential friend who helped and inspire me throughout the course of 2011.

I've never looked back since then. My faith now is so solid it could survive a nuclear bomb! I've got absolutely no doubt that the Bible is 100% truth and is the inspired and inerrant word of God.
My personal life has also turned itself around completely, and I don't think this is a coincidence!

My bottom line for anyone who is or has backsliding, is firstly how much effort are putting in to your relationship with God? Is this a past or present relationship? A passive or active one?

And also, it is perfectly normal to have questions and difficulties with the Christian faith. But ask yourself whether these difficulties are sufficient to completely turn your back on it? Remember, Christ wants to have a relationship with you - he wants to know you!
But do the difficulties you have really result in Christianity changed from truth to a lie?

Yes, I to have difficulties with the Christian faith, but for me there is too much evidence that show Christianity to be truth and that for me is sufficient to give me the hope and patience that I may eventually have an understanding of these difficulties some time in the future...

 

[Alex Crewe]

A lot of people who read Richard Dawkin's 'The God Delusion' gave up on their faith after.

 

[Mr Bungle]

A lot of people who read Richard Dawkin's 'The God Delusion' gave up on their faith after.

Really?
That's quite interesting if that's the case.....

I better not read it then!

 

[Alex Crewe]

Really?
That's quite interesting if that's the case.....

I better not read it then!

They were probably not strong in their faith to begin with.

 

[Syrokal]

They were probably not strong in their faith to begin with.

It's quite a persuasive book and certainly puts up one of the most (if not the most concise) arguments for Atheism, logically and philosophically it's completely sound.

You kind of just have to have either A)A lot of Gnostical experience to over-ride your brain or B)Prefer the comfort of faith to keep on trecking afterwards.

 

[ebia]

A lot of people who read Richard Dawkin's 'The God Delusion' gave up on their faith after.

That's rather worrying.

 

[Mr Bungle]

The God Delusion online pdf is here:

http://uath.org/download/literature/RichardDawkinsGodDelusion.pdf

I will have a quick scan though this morning.....

 

[ebia]

It's quite a persuasive book and certainly puts up one of the most (if not the most concise) arguments for Atheism, logically and philosophically it's completely sound.

Mostly it's a lot of ad-hominim attacks, strawmen, addressing particularly weak versions of theology, and downright misinformation.

At least upto the bit I got through. After he tries to suggest that Jesus may never existed and cites G.A.Wells to back that up I couldn't even take it even that seriously anymore and stopped reading

 

[Mr Bungle]

I've heard several debates and lectures by William Lane Craig. I'm still curious as to why Dawkins won't debate Christian apologists like Craig who have sound academic backgrounds

William Lane Craig: Is God a Delusion? Sheldonian Theatre, Oxford October 2011 - YouTube

 

[savedbygrace05]

I've heard several debates and lectures by William Lane Craig. I'm still curious as to why Dawkins won't debate Christian apologists like Craig who have sound academic backgrounds

William Lane Craig: Is God a Delusion? Sheldonian Theatre, Oxford October 2011 - YouTube

Dawkins is essentially a showman, and like any showman he likes to show himself in the best possible light for the world looking on.

 

[Syrokal]

I've heard several debates and lectures by William Lane Craig. I'm still curious as to why Dawkins won't debate Christian apologists like Craig who have sound academic backgrounds

William Lane Craig: Is God a Delusion? Sheldonian Theatre, Oxford October 2011 - YouTube

Because he has debated countless Theologians with very sound back-grounds before over many years.

He just declined to debate Craig at a certain time because he was sick of the constant bickering and the constant challenging, he didn't see the need to once more clearly re-itterate his opinions in the public forum.

Christians saw this is as a sign of weakness and went absolutely crazy and declared victory for ever-after.

 

[Mr Bungle]

Dawkins is essentially a showman, and like any showman he likes to show himself in the best possible light for the world looking on.

A bit like Derrren Brown then...?

 

[Mr Bungle]

Christians saw this is as a sign of weakness and went absolutely crazy and declared victory for ever-after.

I think it was also because AC Grayling had declined also to debate him, and then Polly Toynbee accepted then declined....

The Dawkins thing then happened in quick succession, and it proved to be useful PR for both.

I think when Dawkins went and made it personal i.e. his reason for not debating Lane Craig did not do himself any favours, and remember Dawkins did himself get flak from other prominent atheists on this matter.

Lane Craig does have a reputation of performing very solidly in debates against atheists; notably Chris Hitchens and Sam Harris, and my personal fav versus Peter Atkins:

Dr William Lane Craig vs Dr Peter Atkins highlight - YouTube

 

[savedbygrace05]

A bit like Derrren Brown then...?

Who

 

[Mr Bungle]

Who

Derren Brown - Features - Derren Brown on Channel 4 - Channel 4

 

[Genersis]

I don't know; the handful of arguments I've heard from WLC which he uses often tend to be quite flawed. Like the Kalam cosmological argument. Though I've only seen him explaining these arguments to Christian audiences admitedly, and not in any actual debates.

He does tend to strawman though, which is pretty irritating.

 

[Nabobalis]

There is no point in "debating" WLC. It doesn't help anybody expect WLC and his ego. He doesn't listen to anything to anything the other guy makes and he makes some terrible arguments which are generally caled out but does he address them? No.

Plus, written debates are much better.

 

[dysert]

I think that belief is a choice. You can look at the wonders of the universe, the complexity of life, the millions of factors that have to be put together just right in order for us to even exist. You can try to figure out how anything came to exist in the first place, or how life somehow emerged from non-life. You can estimate the probability of the hundreds of biblical prophecies getting fulfilled.

All these things can provide at least some rationale that a Supreme Being exists, do I don't think it's irrational to believe in God.

But others could ponder these very issues and choose to believe something different. Some people put their own intellect in the place of God and figure they're smart enough that they've got things mostly figured out without needing for there to be a God.

I don't have much a point to make except that everyone is going to choose to believe something. There is rationale for a belief in God, and obviously others don't think there is. In either case we choose what we'll believe and move on from there.

 

[TemperateSeaIsland]

Just wondered how many people on this forum have deconverted/ recanted from the Christian faith?

How or why did this happen?

I started deconverting at around 14-15, going from Christian to a Deist looking at various religions and then finally Atheist at around 18-19. I just couldn't come up with any good reasons of why I should believe in a religion or existence of gods. While many religions have interesting truths and insights I think they come from human experience rather than divine revelation.

 

[Mr Bungle]

He doesn't listen to anything to anything the other guy makes and he makes some terrible arguments which are generally caled out but does he address them? No.

Terrible arguments such as? (this is a genuine request purely out of curiosity.... i'd be interested to look at whatever it is from both sides of the argument...)