Deconversion

[Mr Bungle]

Just wondered how many people on this forum have deconverted/ recanted from the Christian faith?

How or why did this happen?

 

[MorkandMindy]

I badly wanted to believe. And it happened two people from Campus Crusade for Christ came by and explained things as well as they reasonably could be explained and 'presto' I had a new life.



What attracted me to Christianity was the first spiritual law:

'God has a wonderful plan for your life'

I was told to read the Bible daily and follow it and pray and meet with other Christians and I would discover what the plan was.



Ten years later I was still doing all those things and helping our church and teaching a Bible Study and started learning Hebrew in the hope of getting a bit more meaning out the Bible and finally I realised that I never would.

Two thousand years on nobody has managed to work out a clear message from scripture that was consistent with all of scripture. There is Covenant Theology, Dispensationalism, and so on, hundreds of different attempts to work out what Christianity is but not one actually works.



So maybe man will never understand the ways of God. But equally I was never going to be able to find the wonderful plan for my life either.

 

[lismore]

'God has a wonderful plan for your life'

Hello

The bible says; Love God and love your neighbour as yourself.

Your version of Christianity seemed to be very self centred, all about finding something for you. But what about other people and their needs?

Maybe turning the focus away from yourself into helping the desperately needy would have led you closer to God.

Jesus said whatever you did to help even the lowliest human being you did for him.

You can find the face of God in the face of the poor and needy.

 

[non-religious]

I'm definitely in a place whereby my issues with certain aspects of my faith have got me seriously reconsidering my whole belief system. I want to believe, I want to be able to have a deep, sincere and loving relationship with Jesus, but I can't seem to get past certain unanswered questions. I turn forty in January, and I feel as though the past 15 yrs of my Christian walk have led me to a place of doubt, scepticism and a profound sense of disillusionment.

I can't get past the issue of why God allows such suffering? I have real problems with the stance, and I appreciate this isn't indicative of all Christians, of the Church against homosexuality; not to mention that fact that there are countless issues relating to the historical facts re Christianity, Jesus and the existence of God. It is an odd thing to say, but I love people outside of a Biblical mandate. I have compassion for my fellow human being not because I feel a sense of Christian obligation, but because I feel it is the human thing to do.

I am listening to a lot more speakers who have adopted an atheistic world view. Ayaan Hirsi, Sam Harris, the late Christopher Hitchins and others. I find that opening my mind to such ideas has enabled me to take a step back from my faith and re-evaluate my long held beliefs. I admire those who hold to a belief, but I am increasingly seeing their zealousness as almost an obstacle to progressive thinking. It is apparent that if you confine yourself to a core set of beliefs, you can no longer allow for independent reasoning and movement (I'm sure there are many who would rightfully disagree)

I believe I am who I am despite my belief in a higher power. It is not easy to just stop believing, but I do sense that it is merely a matter of time before I can openly say that I no longer believe. It is not a day I necessarily look forward to, but I am not anxious about it.

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

I'm definitely in a place whereby my issues with certain aspects of my faith have got me seriously reconsidering my whole belief system. I want to believe, I want to be able to have a deep, sincere and loving relationship with Jesus, but I can't seem to get past certain unanswered questions. I turn forty in January, and I feel as though the past 15 yrs of my Christian walk have led me to a place of doubt, scepticism and a profound sense of disillusionment.

I can't get past the issue of why God allows such suffering? I have real problems with the stance, and I appreciate this isn't indicative of all Christians, of the Church against homosexuality; not to mention that fact that there are countless issues relating to the historical facts re Christianity, Jesus and the existence of God. It is an odd thing to say, but I love people outside of a Biblical mandate. I have compassion for my fellow human being not because I feel a sense of Christian obligation, but because I feel it is the human thing to do.

I am listening to a lot more speakers who have adopted an atheistic world view. Ayaan Hirsi, Sam Harris, the late Christopher Hitchins and others. I find that opening my mind to such ideas has enabled me to take a step back from my faith and re-evaluate my long held beliefs. I admire those who hold to a belief, but I am increasingly seeing their zealousness as almost an obstacle to progressive thinking. It is apparent that if you confine yourself to a core set of beliefs, you can no longer allow for independent reasoning and movement (I'm sure there are many who would rightfully disagree)

I believe I am who I am despite my belief in a higher power. It is not easy to just stop believing, but I do sense that it is merely a matter of time before I can openly say that I no longer believe. It is not a day I necessarily look forward to, but I am not anxious about it.

With the utmost respect, why not change your faith icon on here to "searching" until you are more sure of your stance?

I'm just asking and mean no disrespect by that...

 

[savedbygrace05]

If someone is a true 'born again' Christian, then deconversion is not the issue, but rather 'falling away', which is warned about in several places in the NT. If someone was never truly converted in the first place, then they cannot be deconverted having never actually being converted to begin with!

Heb 10: 29 "How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?"

 

[Mr Bungle]

Hi non-religious - thanks for your post; a very interesting assessment of your faith.
I must admit what you've written has really got me thinking!

Firstly, regarding homosexuality - I am completely on board with what you say. There is a section of Christianity in this country who in my opinion have a very un-Christian attitude towards the gay community.

Regarding, God allowing suffering - clearly this is probably the single most problematic area for Christians to tackle/ explain. I can think immediately of half-a-dozen people that I know who to this day struggle with this issue (and some of these people are mature Christians like yourself).

My own view? Firstly, I can explain any suffering independently of God. Secondly, some suffering is clearly subjective, so I don't think we're talking about ALL suffering..maybe just the extent of suffering? Thirdly, I believe that suffering either points you towards God or away from God - and I don't this is a coincidence either.

I've got a close friend who is currently going though a divorce (after being married less than 2 years).

I've spent more time this year with him than I had the entire 15 years before that I'd know him. He's also recently lost his Dad, and has had other personal issues to contend with.

The subject of suffering & God has arisen in our conversations more than one
once (I would describe my friend as an agnostic; a highly cynical one but certainly not an outright atheist).

Regarding the suffering caused from his divorce, this is my explanation to him:

If his marriage had NOT ended, and they'd continued on happily with no problems and started a family etc etc would we be sitting here talking about suffering. And God? No.
The only reason we're talking about suffering NOW is because he is suffering NOW. Therefore, the only reason why he is questioning God, whether he exists and if he does, why he allows suffering is because my friend is unhappy and suffering.

Would he ever question why God allows happiness? No, of course not. My friend freely admits that if none of this suffering had ever happened, he wouldn't of given God a moments thought.

I personally believe that God uses some suffering to point people towards him. My friend has now considered and talked to me about God in a way that wouldn't have happened without suffering in his life..

 

[savedbygrace05]

Firstly, I can explain any suffering independently of God.

The topic of suffering, probably deserving of its own thread IMO cannot be explained independently of God or His Word. Allow me to explain.

We can trace all human suffering to what happened in the Garden of Eden (cf. Gen 3), which caused a fracture between man and God which is only repairable thru Lord Jesus Christ.

We all suffer to some degree, the difference for the true Christian is that we have God with us and in us throughout. Our suffering as Christians can only truly be understood thru the Cross. What we fail to grasp is how much the Trinitarian God suffers because of our sin and rebellion, although we get some insight again thru the Cross.

 

[Mr Bungle]

The topic of suffering, probably deserving of its own thread IMO cannot be explained independently of God or His Word. Allow me to explain.

You are of course absolutely right, and I think in hindsight I should have qualified what I meant by my comment.

What I was trying to explain is that almost also suffering can be understood without bringing God in to the equation. Of course, as a Christian I believe suffering can only be understood through a belief in God (and yes, I agree this should have a separate thread).

God is normally brought in to the equation as someone to blame, rather than someone to answer to, or to understand suffering.

I'm oversimplifying here, but there is actually very little suffering that cannot be explained/ understood at face value. God is brought in to the equation as an afterthought (normally by people who don't believe in a god) to vindicate their own disbelief in the first place.

The suffering in question can actually be understood for what it is without having to blame or question God.

Take 9/11 for example - 3000+ people died because of this act of terrorism. Many thousands more have suffered through missing loved ones of the 3000 that perished. Should God be blamed for allowing suffering here? Or is it the case that a number of militant Islamic extremists simply chose to do what they did? Does the explanation end with the 8 terrorists who flew the plane, or with God who allowed them to do it in the first place?

 

[MorkandMindy]

Hello

The bible says; Love God and love your neighbour as yourself.

Your version of Christianity seemed to be very self centred, all about finding something for you. But what about other people and their needs?

Maybe turning the focus away from yourself into helping the desperately needy would have led you closer to God.

Jesus said whatever you did to help even the lowliest human being you did for him.

You can find the face of God in the face of the poor and needy.

No problem, we were given a pretty heavy duty warning about the 'social gospel'

 

[Willie T]

Just wondered how many people on this forum have deconverted/ recanted from the Christian faith?

How or why did this happen?

I do have to say that this forum certainly does not lack for humor.

 

[Mr Bungle]

I do have to say that this forum certainly does not lack for humor.

Thanks - not sure that was entirely the intention of this particular thread....

 

[Paradoxum]

Just wondered how many people on this forum have deconverted/ recanted from the Christian faith?

How or why did this happen?

I did. I was brought up in a Christian house and prayed the prayer when I was a child. Was 'baptised in the Holy Spirit' at the start of my teens. Baptised in my mid teens and strongly defended Christianity till I was 18.

I think there were a number of reasons, but the intellectual reason is just that I doubted God was there. I had always felt Him and loved Him, believed in the charismatic gifts of the Spirit, but there were small things that made me wonder. A few years after baptism I was deceived into believing evolution was a lie. After not too long I realised my mistake, but after that I realised how easily I could be fooled. Then it could be possible that any of the things Christians told me could be wrong. I has always liked science, so I tried to make my understanding of Christianity as reasonable as I could, according to what made sense to me, not what people told me was true. Slowly I doubted more and more even though I was trying to hold on to faith. In the end God seemed more like the ideal that my mind made up, and I could no long pray or worship and feel anything. I was just talking to myself.

I asked God to save me from my doubts, and cried many times as I realised I might lose my loving heavenly Father. Nothing changed. I wanted to live my life for God, I was a good Christian, I was so much more committed to my faith than others my age, but it happened anyway.

I'm thankful for the Christian community I grew up in, and the values of love, forgiveness, compassion, and equality I learnt. I'm also thankful they had strong faith but didn't indoctrinate children against evidence and reason.

 

[Joy]

If someone is a true 'born again' Christian, then deconversion is not the issue, but rather 'falling away', which is warned about in several places in the NT. If someone was never truly converted in the first place, then they cannot be deconverted having never actually being converted to begin with!

Heb 10: 29 "How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?"

I totally agree with this

 

[non-religious]

[Paradoxum;]I did. I was brought up in a Christian house and prayed the prayer when I was a child. Was 'baptised in the Holy Spirit' at the start of my teens. Baptised in my mid teens and strongly defended Christianity till I was 18.

I think there were a number of reasons, but the intellectual reason is just that I doubted God was there. I had always felt Him and loved Him, believed in the charismatic gifts of the Spirit, but there were small things that made me wonder. A few years after baptism I was deceived into believing evolution was a lie. After not too long I realised my mistake, but after that I realised how easily I could be fooled. Then it could be possible that any of the things Christians told me could be wrong. I has always liked science, so I tried to make my understanding of Christianity as reasonable as I could, according to what made sense to me, not what people told me was true. Slowly I doubted more and more even though I was trying to hold on to faith. In the end God seemed more like the ideal that my mind made up, and I could no long pray or worship and feel anything. I was just talking to myself.

I asked God to save me from my doubts, and cried many times as I realised I might lose my loving heavenly Father. Nothing changed. I wanted to live my life for God, I was a good Christian, I was so much more committed to my faith than others my age, but it happened anyway.

I'm thankful for the Christian community I grew up in, and the values of love, forgiveness, compassion, and equality I learnt. I'm also thankful they had strong faith but didn't indoctrinate children against evidence and reason.

I hear you Nice post, very honest.

 

[non-religious]

Mr Bungle - I appreciate the non-judgemental response to my post, much appreciated

Of course my story is far too complicated and detailed to fit into a reply box. I would just like to say that the pertinent issue of suffering was not a major contributing factor towards my almost inevitable deconversion, but does have a part to play.

 

[non-religious]

[Lotuspetal_uk]With the utmost respect, why not change your faith icon on here to "searching" until you are more sure of your stance?

I'm just asking and mean no disrespect by that...

Searching implies a desire to find something that you have not experienced. That definition is not applicable to me. The cross will remain until I feel it necessary to change. I'm not here enough to care frankly, but I hear what you're saying.

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

Searching implies a desire to find something that you have not experienced. That definition is not applicable to me. The cross will remain until I feel it necessary to change. I'm not here enough to care frankly, but I hear what you're saying.

No probs.

I can't remember exactly where but there was an icon for people who were in the situation you're in now. Perhaps it's not the "searching" one but at the end of the day I see your point.

Thanks for clarifying though.

 

[non-religious]

Something else that occurred to me was the fact that I haven't yet shared any of my doubts or feelings with my Christian friends. My non-Christian friends are well aware of my current situation, as too is my wife (obviously) who is herself a committed Christian.

I am reluctant to tell my Christian friends because I know they will feel an overriding sense of dread and doom. They will genuinely be concerned about my eternal soul. Most of them subscribe to the belief in hell. I know they will vigorously pray for me, but I don't feel like explaining in great detail why I am where I am. I appreciate I will at some point have to, but I'm not quite there yet. So I am in all intents and purposes going through the motions. I'm still going to church, I'm still fellowshipping, I'm still trying to commune with God, but it feels unnatural. I guess to those uber-charismatics out there, I am possessed and in need of deliverance. I would laugh, but people will sincerely believe that.

Perhaps that just another reason why I am so inclined to leave the faith, there is just a lot of extraneous nonsense associated with much of today's Christianity.

 

[Syrokal]

I have

There was no groundbreaking traumatic experience, as I matured , gained a deeper academic understanding of my faith and evolved in my relationship with God I began to move away from Christianity as a faith.

After much thought and importantly prayer and a little journey in the middle I found myself where I am today.