How do we know you are saved?

[FrederickO]

I have accepted Christ in my life but I know that I still sin. So the question I have is still the same - are we assured of salvation?

Since raising this topic here I have been doing a bit of reading and realise that the assurance of salvation I thought was guaranteed is not a universally accepted fact.

This should be a simple as 1 + 1 = 2 I.e. accept Jesus as personal Lord and saviour and you will be saved. But all i seem to see now are people not making it clear and instead of coming straight out with answers, throwing in questions.

 

[Water Walker]

Look at these scriptures and tell me you don't sin every day:

James 4:17

So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin

You miss under stand who he is talking to hear not believers but those who are still loving the world. Read in context.

James 4:1-17
Proud or Humble

4 What is the source of wars and fights among you? Don’t they come from the cravings that are at war within you? 2 You desire and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. You do not have because you do not ask. 3 You ask and don’t receive because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your evil desires.

4 Adulteresses! Don’t you know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? So whoever wants to be the world’s friend becomes God’s enemy. 5 Or do you think it’s without reason the Scripture says that the Spirit who lives in us yearns jealously?

6 But He gives greater grace. Therefore He says:God resists the proud,
but gives grace to the humble.
7 Therefore, submit to God. But resist the Devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, sinners, and purify your hearts, double-minded people! 9 Be miserable and mourn and weep. Your laughter must change to mourning and your joy to sorrow. 10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and He will exalt you.

11 Don’t criticize one another, brothers. He who criticizes a brother or judges his brother criticizes the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. 12 There is one lawgiver and judge who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?


Our Will and His Will

13 Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will travel to such and such a city and spend a year there and do business and make a profit.” 14 You don’t even know what tomorrow will bring—what your life will be! For you are like smoke that appears for a little while, then vanishes.

15 Instead, you should say, “If the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that.” 16 But as it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil. 17 So it is a sin for the person who knows to do what is good and doesn't do it.

Romans 14:23

And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin

Again read in context Paul is talking again to people not walking in the Spirit(conviction) Doing things because they want to or not.

1 John 5:17

All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death

This is talking about types of sin, and we are to help those that do sin.
So is John a little double minded? Read this.
1 John 2:1-5

2 My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ the Righteous One. 2 He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not only for ours, but also for those of the whole world.

God’s Commands

3 This is how we are sure that we have come to know Him: by keeping His commands. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” yet doesn't keep His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly in him the love of God is perfected. This is how we know we are in Him:

What is one of Christ commands that he gave many " go and sin no more' was that just words and impossibility?

I'm pretty sure I do at least one unrighteous thing every day. Yes, you're absolutely right, God called us to be holy as He is holy. However, do you think he expects us to live in a state of complete sinlessness? That is absolutely impossible for us to do.

Yes it is possible if we truly walk in the Spirit, doing as He directs and in pray and thankfulness always.

1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

I believe we are called to live as if we could become perfect in this life, always repenting and always seeking Gods face to change our hearts, but until we are in our glorified bodies, the facts are that sin is unfortunately a daily reality for a Christian. I am not talking about deliberate, willful sin by the way.

One thing that seems very clear to me is that the closer I get to the Lord, the more I realize how far I am from living up to His standards.

That quote in 1 John again I believe is pointing out to the believer what the state they are walking in. I heard it once said that we repent once, but confess always.
The Spirit will always provide us a way to stand up under any temptation if we seek that way. If your sinning every day you need to get your act together.

1 John 1:5-10
5 Now this is the message we have heard from Him and declare to you: God is light, and there is absolutely no darkness in Him. 6 If we say, “We have fellowship with Him,” yet we walk in darkness, we are lying and are not practicing the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say, “We have no sin,” we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say, “We don’t have any sin,” we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

If your walking in darkness then you not in the light. The sin in this verse "we have no sin" is talking of our state the nature of being in these bodies, not giving us the OK to sin. Our position is in 1 John 3:4-6 Everyone who commits sin also breaks the law; sin is the breaking of law. 5 You know that He was revealed so that He might take away sins, and there is no sin in Him. 6 Everyone who remains in Him does not sin; everyone who sins has not seen Him or known Him.

Note there is no sin in HIM...no nature or state. If we remain in Him we do not sin. Question do you sin when your thinking about Him? I don't sin but I get tempted and I over come temptation through Him, he provides a way. If I give in to temptation then there is sin. One can not sin if we live in the fruit of the Spirit but if we fight the sins of the world we will lose and sin.Rest in Him and sin no more stop trying and abide in Him.

 

[thesunisout]

I have accepted Christ in my life but I know that I still sin. So the question I have is still the same - are we assured of salvation?

Since raising this topic here I have been doing a bit of reading and realise that the assurance of salvation I thought was guaranteed is not a universally accepted fact.

This should be a simple as 1 + 1 = 2 I.e. accept Jesus as personal Lord and saviour and you will be saved. But all i seem to see now are people not making it clear and instead of coming straight out with answers, throwing in questions.

It is clear; when you accept Jesus into your life, you will be saved. However, anyone can say a prayer; the evidence will be in your changed life. You can't just say a prayer and walk back into the world and expect to go to Heaven. If you've been born again and had an encounter with the living God, you will be a changed man. Have you been changed?

 

[thesunisout]

You miss under stand who he is talking to hear not believers but those who are still loving the world

Sinless perfectionism is a false doctrine, and I'm not going to argue against it here in this thread.

 

[FrederickO]

And it is important for us to know if another person is saved..... why?

It's not whether that particular individual is saved - its the principle. How can I tell my family to accept Christ, become born again and assure them that by asking Christ to come into their life they will be saved if it's not true?

 

[Water Walker]

Sinless perfectionism is a false doctrine, and I'm not going to argue against it here in this thread.

I don't believe in sinless perfectionism, I am talking about walking in the Spirit not in the flesh. If one is born again does that person only have to look forward to sinning over and over again. What soil are the seeds falling in? If one does not abide in the vine what fruit will it bare?

 

[Water Walker]

It's not whether that particular individual is saved - its the principle. How can I tell my family to accept Christ, become born again and assure them that by asking Christ to come into their life they will be saved if it's not true?

Of coarse a person is saved if they ask Christ into their live and repent of their sin.
No one said it was not true, we are also discussing our responsibilities after we are saved.
God saves people all the time but He does not want people to sit on their hands, He wants them to grow in faith and love and joy etc. We will want to do things because we are grateful and humble allowing His Holy Spirit to work in and through us.

 

[Water Walker]

Watch this and listen.

How do I repent? - Tim Conway - YouTube

 

[HalupkiMonster]

This is all very confusing. I would have thought that knowing whether or not we were saved was an "essential" you know how we all agree on the essentials.

But now it seems that what I was taught in an evangelical church is wrong. I was told that you only had to say the sinners prayer and I would be saved.

But this idea denies the possibility of grace. Does God not love all, even those who believe in other faiths? Jesus saved the whole world, not just his followers, when he died on the cross. And besides, God made promises to non-Christians, the ancestors of the Jews and Muslims. They have equal access to God and His Grace as we Christians do.

I think that the man in your scenario has some issues. I would leave deciding who is "saved" and who is not to God, not to man.

 

[FrederickO]

Of coarse a person is saved if they ask Christ into their live and repent of their sin.
No one said it was not true, we are also discussing our responsibilities after we are saved.
God saves people all the time but He does not want people to sit on their hands, He wants them to grow in faith and love and joy etc. We will want to do things because we are grateful and humble allowing His Holy Spirit to work in and through us.

My advice is not to worry about another's salvation. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Work on your own spiritual maturity. It isn't our job to judge another's salvation. That is between them and Yeshua.

You don't know the situation of the man's home life. Was his wife a major Jezebel that was trying to run his life? Did she drive him away by her actions?

Not all marriages are worth saving IMO. In my case I found out my wife had been involved in witchcraft. When she turned up pregnant for the second time by another man, I put her out of my life. She refused to follow the biblical requirements for a wife.

Does that mean I lost my salvation for putting my wife aside? Of course NOT.

No you may be fine, but what about your wife if she (after having committed herself to Jesus) then decides she wants to be a witch? Is she still saved?

 

[FrederickO]

But this idea denies the possibility of grace. Does God not love all, even those who believe in other faiths? Jesus saved the whole world, not just his followers, when he died on the cross. And besides, God made promises to non-Christians, the ancestors of the Jews and Muslims. They have equal access to God and His Grace as we Christians do.

I think that the man in your scenario has some issues. I would leave deciding who is "saved" and who is not to God, not to man.

Now I am totally confused. You are suggesting that we don't need Jesus to be saved?

 

[Water Walker]

No you may be fine, but what about your wife if she (after having committed herself to Jesus) then decides she wants to be a witch? Is she still saved?

Well I do not believe that possible but should that happen then this comes into play below.


Hebrews 10:20-31

Warning against Deliberate Sin

26 For if we deliberately sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire about to consume the adversaries. 28 If anyone disregards Moses’ law, he dies without mercy, based on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment do you think one will deserve who has trampled on the Son of God, regarded as profane the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know the One who has said, Vengeance belongs to Me, I will repay,and again, The Lord will judge His people. 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God!

 

[HalupkiMonster]

Now I am totally confused. You are suggesting that we don't need Jesus to be saved?

No, not at all. What I mean to say is that being "saved" is not something that is simply gained and lost throughout one's life. Jesus already saved us, our debt is payed for with His blood.

I suppose that this has to do with denominational differences more than anything else, but I've never taken to the idea that someone makes a conscious choice to be "saved". Making a choice to follow Christ is a different matter.

Salvation can't be something that is lost by sin, such as the adulterous man in the earlier scenario. Christ saved us, we're saved. We're also all sinners, who Christ came to save from the bondage of sin and death.

I just don't see salvation like points in a video game: +1 for praying and -1 for bad actions.

This is just my humble opinion, of course.

 

[FrederickO]

Well I do not believe that possible but should that happen then this comes into play below.


Hebrews 10:20-31

Warning against Deliberate Sin

26 For if we deliberately sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire about to consume the adversaries. 28 If anyone disregards Moses’ law, he dies without mercy, based on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment do you think one will deserve who has trampled on the Son of God, regarded as profane the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know the One who has said, Vengeance belongs to Me, I will repay,and again, The Lord will judge His people. 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God!

So you are effectively saying that there is no such thing as eternal salvation. We have to continually walk with the lord and repent our sins. This is not how I originally understood things I learned.

 

[Water Walker]

So you are effectively saying that there is no such thing as eternal salvation. We have to continually walk with the lord and repent our sins. This is not how I originally understood things I learned.

Not at all just read the following and see we have to endure!

Revelations
3 “Write to the angel of the church in Sardis:

“The One who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars says: I know your works; you have a reputation for being alive, but you are dead. 2 Be alert and strengthen what remains, which is about to die, for I have not found your works complete before My God. 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; keep it, and repent. But if you are not alert, I will come like a thief, and you have no idea at what hour I will come against you. 4 But you have a few people in Sardis who have not defiled their clothes, and they will walk with Me in white, because they are worthy. 5 In the same way, the victor will be dressed in white clothes, and I will never erase his name from the book of life but will acknowledge his name before My Father and before His angels.

6 “Anyone who has an ear should listen to what the Spirit says to the churches.

It like the parable of the seeds...some falls on good ground and some on the rocks etc. Only that which grows in the good ground will make it. Endure!
Note that it could be possible to erase a name from the book if they do not endure.

 

[FrederickO]

You have stated two opposite positions. On one hand you are saying that we cannot lose our salvation

then you are saying that we have to endure see below for two quotes from you:

Not at all just read the following and see we have to endure!



It like the parable of the seeds...some falls on good ground and some on the rocks etc. Only that which grows in the good ground will make it. Endure!
Note that it could be possible to erase a name from the book if they do not endure.

 

[FrederickO]

Still saved? You don't loose salvation due to sin in your life. You lose eternal rewards. It hinders your sanctification process but we still have to deal with our flesh. If we lost salvation because of sin after salvation, we would all be doomed.

quote]

I agree completely.

What is the difference between salvation and eternal rewards and what bible passage can show me this distinction?

 

[revrobor]

But that doesn't make sense. I thought it was once saved always saved. So how can there be doubt?

There is no such thing as "once saved always saved". That idea came from the verse where Jesus says "...no one can pluck from my hand." But one can turn his back on salvation and walk away. The only unforgivable sin is rejecting God's plan of salvation ("Blaspheming the Holy Spirit" by saying that plan is a lie). I the man in your question is a Believer and asks for forgiveness he is forgiven. But only God knows his heart.

 

[Water Walker]

You have stated two opposite positions. On one hand you are saying that we cannot lose our salvation

then you are saying that we have to endure see below for two quotes from you:

Well my friend after rereading your posts and responses it seems that you are just trying to promote Calvinism indirectly.

I am done with this discussion, no more games.

 

[FrederickO]

I am asking for a straight answer to a major issue that I have just thought about. It should be a straight answer. I am sorry that you cannot help.