Why do some people think Hell isn't real?

[DrBubbaLove]

Someone once brought up an interesting point to me that I can definitely see... How could an all-loving father send people to hell? While I don't necessarily agree with this standpoint, I think it a valid point. Other than that I'm not really sure the reasons for why people don't believe in hell but I think it probably has something to do somewhat along those lines.

Even a human father can make a choice, no matter how terrible, and it be driven by love to act to save one child and it result in the demise of another.

 

[Timothew]

I think that you are brilliant, a fascinating and worthy opponent.

Thanks.

 

[someguy14]

Why do some people think Hell isn't real?

Hell is in fact actual. Regardless who is afraid(cowardly) of admitting it. In order for one to deny hell and the lake of fire, one has to reject Jesus teachings in the Gospel's, and in fact, reject God Himself. An anti-christ has no problem denying hell in order to win souls for hell itself.
All of those that reject Jesus teaching of hell can give "simple" explanations. God is greater.
Deceit is the devils tool and hooks many that trust in deceitful words and ways, straight to hell, regardless if they want to go or don't. "Father of lies..." John 8:44

 

[Timothew]

Before the perfect man Adam rebelled in the Garden of Eden by intentionally eating of the fruit from the "tree of knowledge of good and bad" (Gen 3:6), what did God prescribe as his punishment ? Genesis 2:17 says that "as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.”

Following Adam's intentional act of disobedience, what did Jehovah God now say ? That he would now burn forever in a "hellfire" ? At Genesis 3:19, God tells Adam (and Eve): "In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.” Adam did not exist before his creation from the "dust" or ground. Hence, upon his death, he would not be sent to a "hellfire", but return to the same state of non-existence.

At Ecclesiastes 9:5, king Solomon was inspired to write: "For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten." Furthermore, Psalms 115:17 says that "the dead themselves do not praise Jah, nor do any going down into silence." How can the dead be tormented since they are "conscious of nothing at all " and go "down into silence" ?

Because of Jesus association of fire with the Greek word Gehenna, which the King James Bible has rendered as both "hell" and "hellfire", this leaves the wrong impression that bad people go to "hell" to be tormented by fire. Jesus was not teaching this, but rather was telling his audience that anyone who receives the judgment of Gehenna from Jehovah God are dead forever, with no hope of a resurrection or a "standing up " to life again.("resurrection", Greek a·na´sta·sis, meaning "raising up; standing up")

The churches have promoted the belief in a "hellfire", creating a morbid fear of God rather than love. And interestingly, these also teach that Satan is the one "running" it. A careful examination notes a serious flaw in this belief, for Satan is God's archenemy. If God sends people to a fiery hell to be tormented by the Devil, would that not imply a level of cooperation between God and Satan ?

To illustrate, let's say a man has a son, but this son becomes rebellious, doing a lot of bad things. Though the father tried to provide loving correction, the son remains bad. The father now feels that he has to punish him. But what if the father found out that an evil man had been influencing his son to do evil things, would the father now turn to evil man to ask him to punish his son ?

Then, does it make sense that God would ask Satan the Devil - the very one who influences wicked people - to punish these same people ? For that matter, if God wanted the wicked to be punished, why would the Devil - God's archenemy - comply with God's wishes and torment them ?

Thus, the Bible says that wicked people are not tormented but are "cut off ", for Psalms 37:9 says: "For evildoers themselves will be cut off ("cut off ", Hebrew karath), but those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth."

I pretty agree with your post, except that I believe that everyone will be resurrected on the last day and stand before Jesus Christ for judgment, and be either given eternal life or sent to their second death.

And it is difficult to concisely say what "the churches promote", since each one has a slightly different take on this. Some say the soul is tormented forever, at least one person says it is the spirit that is tormented forever, one guy says the dead remain conscious forever but fervently denys that this is the same thing as "living forever", one denomination that says it isn't a denomination claims that it is the presence of God that torments the living dead sinner's soul or spirit.

Then each one of these splinters complains if the version of eternal conscious torment (ETC) that I am currently proving wrong doesn't match exactly with the version of ECT that they hold.

 

[someguy14]

Thanks.

Your only an opponant if your against God. If your against God, your already defeated.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Am not sure cowardess is driving the denial here. It is a strong belief that something would be wrong with a God that allows some to suffer eternally. It is an inability to comprehend how that is Love, Just and Merciful. It is an attempt to construct a view of the afterlife that removes the problem they see God having with the orthodox view of Hell and one that also appeals to their own feelings and sensibilities. It is an emotional response, but I do not think that makes them cowards.

 

[Timothew]

Hell is in fact actual. Regardless who is afraid(cowardly) of admitting it. In order for one to deny hell and the lake of fire, one has to reject Jesus teachings in the Gospel's, and in fact, reject God Himself. An anti-christ has no problem denying hell in order to win souls for hell itself.
All of those that reject Jesus teaching of hell can give "simple" explanations. God is greater.
Deceit is the devils tool and hooks many that trust in deceitful words and ways, straight to hell, regardless if they want to go or don't. "Father of lies..." John 8:44

I don't reject the lake of fire, I just agree with the bible that it is the second death. Deceit is the devil's tool and he wants people to believe that they will never die. But the bible says that the wages of sin is death and the only way to get eternal life is by going to Jesus Christ and receiving it as a gift from him. Death is real, despite those who are afraid to admit it. But we can have eternal life in Jesus Christ. An anti-christ has no problem telling people there is a hell of eternal torment in order to cause more people to reject Jesus Christ and make them lose out on eternal life. After all, the anti-christ was a murderer from the beginning.

It is not "cowardly" to deny the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment in hell. It takes real courage to stand up against those who teach the serpent's doctrine.

 

[someguy14]

Then each one of these splinters complains if the version of eternal conscious torment (ETC) that I am currently proving wrong doesn't match exactly with the version of ECT that they hold.

"proving wrong..." Flattering(lieing) of self is destruction. Delusional.

Gods word proves that eternal torment exists. To reject that is to reject God Himself.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[someguy14]

I don't reject the lake of fire, I just agree with the bible that it is the second death.

God is life. (key)

 

[Timothew]

Your only an opponant if your against God. If your against God, your already defeated.

LutheranMafia was saying that I was his opponent, not God's.

I agree that if someone tries to oppose God they will certainly be defeated. I think that God allows his opponents to stand for a little while before he defeats them. That's why there is evil in this present world. Jesus Christ hasn't returned yet and had all of his enemies put under his feet. When he returns, he will defeat evil forever. That will be a good day.

 

[someguy14]

It is not "cowardly" to deny the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment in hell. It takes real courage to stand up against those who teach the serpent's doctrine.

Delusion is knowing that hell is going to be thrown into the lake of fire along with death, and still trying to trip others up about eternal torment.

 

[Timothew]

God is life. (key)

I agree that God is life, which is more evidence that those who separate themselves from him do not have life, they perish and are gone forever.

Delusion is knowing that hell is going to be thrown into the lake of fire along with death, and still trying to trip others up about eternal torment.

Of course, you and I disagree about who is delusional. But I agree with what the bible says, "For the wages of sin is death". The bible does not say "the wages of sin is eternal torture in hell".

Flattering(lieing) of self is destruction. Delusional.

I wasn't flattering myself. You say the strangest things. You said that God was on your side, you said "Your only an opponant if your against God. If your against God, your already defeated." Don't you think that is flattering yourself?

 

[DrBubbaLove]

I don't reject the lake of fire, I just agree with the bible that it is the second death. Deceit is the devil's tool and he wants people to believe that they will never die. But the bible says that the wages of sin is death and the only way to get eternal life is by going to Jesus Christ and receiving it as a gift from him. Death is real, despite those who are afraid to admit it. But we can have eternal life in Jesus Christ. An anti-christ has no problem telling people there is a hell of eternal torment in order to cause more people to reject Jesus Christ and make them lose out on eternal life. After all, the anti-christ was a murderer from the beginning.

It is not "cowardly" to deny the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment in hell. It takes real courage to stand up against those who teach the serpent's doctrine.

Except in this view, everyone perishes at death. You said so yourself. So no one gets eternal life and no one does not persish, which goes against what Jesus said.

The only thing getting eternal life in this view is a duplicate of those whose lives God Judges and grants that fate. If we all perish at death, God can only remake us, recreating a new creature and giving this new creature our memories. It does not follow that new creature is the orginal. And in this view, only the new creature gets eternal life in Heaven or perishes depending on a Judgment of a life they can remember but did not live. This is why people keep telling you this view abolishes an afterlife for us, because we all perish.

 

[someguy14]

Eternal torment isn't a bad thing for those that believe in God and are Gods own. God is life eternal. And the wicked one touches them not.

I fight demons on a daily basis and I'm, by the grace of God, please God have mercy upon me, for Im afflicted on every side constantly, aware that demons have been bound unto wicked works constantly. Demons are aware of where they are going and attempt to delude themselves constantly in order to avoid thinking about where they are going. We have read the verse that says, "you believe in one God, you do well, the demons also believe, and tremble." They tremble because they know where they are going. All that follow the devil only have pain and torment to look forward to. Believe this, God is blameless. Those that serve wickedness have choosen eternal punishment for temporary riches in a perishing world. God is eternal. Choose God and reject the pleasures of sins for a season.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

I agree someguy, and a demon would not tremble over non-existence as it would the thought of Hell. In fact I would think non-existence would be desired if given only those two choices.

 

[Timothew]

I agree someguy, and a demon would not tremble over non-existence as it would the thought of Hell. In fact I would think non-existence would be desired if given only those two choices.

They do fear being destroyed:

In the synagogue there was a man possessed by a demon, an evil spirit. He cried out at the top of his voice, “Ha! What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us?
Luke 4:33-34
​

 

[DrBubbaLove]

I did not say they didn't. I said they would fear Hell more. In a way, the question could be seen in a positive hope of being "destroyed" to avoid the dread of the Hell they know they face.

 

[Timothew]

Except in this view, everyone perishes at death. You said so yourself. So no one gets eternal life and no one does not persish, which goes against what Jesus said.

The only thing getting eternal life in this view is a duplicate of those whose lives God Judges and grants that fate. If we all perish at death, God can only remake us, recreating a new creature and giving this new creature our memories. It does not follow that new creature is the orginal. And in this view, only the new creature gets eternal life in Heaven or perishes depending on a Judgment of a life they can remember but did not live. This is why people keep telling you this view abolishes an afterlife for us, because we all perish.

Why do you twist what I say? You know that I believe that there is a resurrection on the final day when we all stand before Jesus Christ to receive eternal life or go to the second death. God can raise us up from death. Was Lazarus a different person after Jesus resurrected him? He perished, but God has the ability to grant life to dead people. I'm not saying anything that is odd. I'm merely saying what the bible says. I don't know exactly how it works, but God raises us up from death. Read the gospels, Jesus raised dead people back to life. I don't know why you , as a Christian, would try to deny that God is able to raise the dead to life.

 

[someguy14]

But I agree with what the bible says, "For the wages of sin is death". The bible does not say "the wages of sin is eternal torture in hell".

So you agree when the Holy Bible actual means the wages of sin is death. None is worthy. All flesh must die and after that is the judgement. The truth is, God is not the author of confusion, so one should understand that all flesh is appointed to die once. Judgement determines all.

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

[Timothew]

So you agree when the Holy Bible actual means the wages of sin is death. None is worthy. All flesh must die and after that is the judgement. The truth is, God is not the author of confusion, so one should understand that all flesh is appointed to die once. Judgement determines all.

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Yes, I agree with that. Do you agree that the wages of sin is death, and therefore not eternal conscious torture?