Seeking Messiah

[talitim]

Yeah that's what this Guy teaches too. He says because I Converted at 19 that I have to as well.

 

[yedida]

Yeah that's what this Guy teaches too. He says because I Converted at 19 that I have to as well.

Then all I'd have to say to him is "Hogwash!"
I'm in agreement that you should, not because of any prior conversion to Judaism, but because you are attached to Israel through your faith in Yeshua. I'd say the same thing had you not converted previously. God's standard of right-living for a redeemed people is as good today as it was that day in the Sinai.

 

[visionary]

I am going to weigh in on this and say that no man should tell you what you "have" to do. It is one thing to instruct in the Way to go, it is quite another telling you that you "have" to. Now on the other hand if God convicts you on this matter, then I would tell you "Obey Him" it has now entered into the very important upgrading stage of the relationship with Him. Whatever He requires of you is for your spiritual growth and positioning of His purpose.

 

[yedida]

I am going to weigh in on this and say that no man should tell you what you "have" to do. It is one thing to instruct in the Way to go, it is quite another telling you that you "have" to. Now on the other hand if God convicts you on this matter, then I would tell you "Obey Him" it has now entered into the very important upgrading stage of the relationship with Him. Whatever He requires of you is for your spiritual growth and positioning of His purpose.

I will strongly point out that God's Spirit will never ever go against what He has already said. So if some spirit inside you is telling you it's just fine to go crunch down on the local crab fest, best check out that spirit, cos it ain't gonna be God's, cos He said eating crab is a no-no.

 

[xDenax]

Yeah that's what this Guy teaches too. He says because I Converted at 19 that I have to as well.

I'm confused. You converted to what at 19 and now you have to do what?

 

[yedida]

I'm confused. You converted to what at 19 and now you have to do what?

Read his first post again. He was raised protestant, converted to Judaism, then converted to Catholicism.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

He instructs gentiles not to convert. He then in some sentances seems to esteem the jewiish people higher than the gentiles, but usually squirms to correct himself. I think it is just how people groups are sticking to their own culture. You see this in workplaces. You work happily alongside everyone but when the day ends one typically stays crowded with their own people group. .

It's never healthy for anyone to think one group of people is automatically lesser than another, as often happens in many fellowships saying Jews/living Jewish equates to being of better quality than Gentiles...and the same thing goes for Gentiles condeming other Gentiles for not living according to what they see in Messianic lifestyles (i.e. condeming a Gentile for eating ham when saying that they as Gentiles want to live as the Jews, claiming that one is condemned for not eating Kosher, condemning others for not being as concerned with the Festivals as they are, etc).

If love is not present and seeing others as the Lord sees, there'll always be a problem.

 

[talitim]

I would point out also..... if you are a guest in someones house, you kosher and they are not. We are not permitted to reject their food based on kosher or not. This being said, I suppose it goes back to:
"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling".
And also the permissible disertation. Be it permissable or edifying. So as you may have noticed I smoke a pipe. Some would say it is a sin based on the discovery that it can do harm to the body. I however would point out that suffering from ptsd addiction works worse on me than on others.

 

[xDenax]

Well, I would say if you had a proper conversion with witnesses, mikveh, brit milah and the whole deal then you are obligated to Jewish Law. Is that what the guy is saying you need to do?

 

[yedida]

I would point out also..... if you are a guest in someones house, you kosher and they are not. We are not permitted to reject their food based on kosher or not. This being said, I suppose it goes back to:
"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling".
And also the permissible disertation. Be it permissable or edifying. So as you may have noticed I smoke a pipe. Some would say it is a sin based on the discovery that it can do harm to the body. I however would point out that suffering from ptsd addiction works worse on me than on others.

Where is the passage (or passages) that say if someone serves you a ham and bacon biscuit you're obligated to eat it? I recall Paul stating that if someone places some meat before you from the market (which means it may have been blessed or been a part of idol worship) go ahead and treat it as good to be eaten. Being Torah Observant himself, he certainly was not including those meats that are biblically (per Torah) unclean! God doesn't change.

 

[talitim]

In acts concerning going to the home of Cornelius. Cepha wasn't going to go because he wasn't kosher. He had a dream and the rest is he we.t to his home And Ate With Him.
This doesn't Co.Vern weather or not to keep kosher. It concerns eating at a gentiles house. We are Not to snub their hospitality because they aren't like us.

 

[visionary]

In acts concerning going to the home of Cornelius. Cepha wasn't going to go because he wasn't kosher. He had a dream and the rest is he we.t to his home And Ate With Him.
This doesn't Co.Vern weather or not to keep kosher. It concerns eating at a gentiles house. We are Not to snub their hospitality because they aren't like us.

You are not familiar with the common attitude of exclusive that prevailed during this time. Gentiles were called dogs. Gentiles were unclean. In rabbinic laws that Peter lived by

Acts 10:28 He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. ..

Because of this attitude, Peter needed the vision to break through this extreme prejudiced and see people as God does. Obviously it worked because Peter understood what God was trying to tell him with the vision.

"But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean."

Chances were that Cornelious was already a very adherent believer in the one true God and His laws. Thus the food was most likely kosher and especially since Cornelious is having a Jew over for lunch.

 

[Qnts2]

In acts concerning going to the home of Cornelius. Cepha wasn't going to go because he wasn't kosher. He had a dream and the rest is he we.t to his home And Ate With Him.
This doesn't Co.Vern weather or not to keep kosher. It concerns eating at a gentiles house. We are Not to snub their hospitality because they aren't like us.

I agree with your assessment.

In Roman culture, food is highly important in social gatherings. To be a good host, food and drink must be provided in abundance. Since non-Jews did not keep Kosher, Jewish people did not visit a Romans home. (Roast mouse was a big delicacy in Rome, but hardly Kosher). The Roman lifestyle and food made them ritually unclean, even as a Gentile according to the subset of laws for Gentiles residing in the land. So, for a Jewish person to enter the home of a Roman/Gentile meant the Jewish person was entering an unclean home and would have to snub the person culturally, not participating in the most important social convention of the society.

Acts 11:11 Now the apostles and the brethren who were throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God. 2 And when Peter came up to Jerusalem, those who were circumcised took issue with him, 3 saying, “You went to uncircumcised men and ate with them.”

That Peter went to uncircumcised men and ate with them was the issue.

I agree, we are not to snub others hospitality, when we go to their homes. Eating unclean foods does not make a person unclean if they have been cleansed by Yeshua.

 

[visionary]

I agree with your assessment.

In Roman culture, food is highly important in social gatherings. To be a good host, food and drink must be provided in abundance. Since non-Jews did not keep Kosher, Jewish people did not visit a Romans home. (Roast mouse was a big delicacy in Rome, but hardly Kosher). The Roman lifestyle and food made them ritually unclean, even as a Gentile according to the subset of laws for Gentiles residing in the land. So, for a Jewish person to enter the home of a Roman/Gentile meant the Jewish person was entering an unclean home and would have to snub the person culturally, not participating in the most important social convention of the society.

Acts 11:11 Now the apostles and the brethren who were throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God. 2 And when Peter came up to Jerusalem, those who were circumcised took issue with him, 3 saying, “You went to uncircumcised men and ate with them.”

That Peter went to uncircumcised men and ate with them was the issue.

I agree, we are not to snub others hospitality, when we go to their homes. Eating unclean foods does not make a person unclean if they have been cleansed by Yeshua.

Yeshua has yet to cleanse unclean food.

 

[talitim]

Gevurot 11:8 OJB

"But I said, `By no means, Adoni, because nothing common or tameh (unclean) has ever entered into my stomach.'

Gevurot 11:9 OJB

"And the bat kol answered for a second time from Shomayim, 'What Hashem made tahor (clean) do not declare tameh (unclean).'
Taken from OJB

 

[ananda]

Gevurot 11:8 OJB

"But I said, `By no means, Adoni, because nothing common or tameh (unclean) has ever entered into my stomach.'

Gevurot 11:9 OJB

"And the bat kol answered for a second time from Shomayim, 'What Hashem made tahor (clean) do not declare tameh (unclean).'
Taken from OJB

11:9 does say that we should not call something unclean if Elohim has made it clean, but it does not say that Elohim made unclean meats clean.

10:28 shows us Peter's interpretation of this event: "Elohim showed that I should not call any man common or unclean"

 

[pat34lee]

Yeshua has yet to cleanse unclean food.

There is no such thing as unclean food. Food is something made to be eaten. Unclean meat is not food, and cannot be made clean.

 

[visionary]

There is no such thing as unclean food. Food is something made to be eaten. Unclean meat is not food, and cannot be made clean.

"Unclean" can be because it was not kosher butchered. It is kosher in its meat but "unclean" in the mind of a observant Jew.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I would point out also..... if you are a guest in someones house, you kosher and they are not. We are not permitted to reject their food based on kosher or not. This being said, I suppose it goes back to:
"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling".

And also the permissible disertation. Be it permissable or edifying. So as you may have noticed I smoke a pipe. Some would say it is a sin based on the discovery that it can do harm to the body. I however would point out that suffering from ptsd addiction works worse on me than on others.

The pipe dynamic you brought up is an interesting one, seeing how many believers are of the mindset that all forms of smoking are a sin....even though the scriptures do not forbid such and it comes squarely down on the issue of the freedom a believer has in the Lord/being wise in how to exercise that freedom (as Paul noted in I Corinthians 8 when sharing on the issue of not causing others to stumble if they were not good with it). The same principle would apply for a host of other issues, be it media choices or drinking and many other things. If another is harmed by it, it'd be wrong to exercise that in front of them and cause them harm---but for others to come into one's home/impose their views on you in saying you couldn't smoke a pipe would be wrong....

On what you noted on Kosher, there were some good discussions on the issue you brought up in some of the older threads, as it concerns the example of Christ/the apostles and what often happened within the OT when it came to God making provision (more here, here, here, here,here, , here and here, etc). The examples of Esther and Elijah the prophet come to mind in light of where they didn't always eat kosher in sticky situations (more here and here). There were already numerous examples in the scriptures where the Lord made clear that to love someone was more important than remaining kosher in all instances, paticularly as it pertains to the Gospel of Christ...and many things had a specific context that pertained to the Mosaic Code prior to when the Lord rearranged thingd ( Hebrews 9:9-11/Hebrews 9, Hebrews 13:8-10 /Hebrews 13 )---with Gentiles never even being required to eat Kosher to begin with

Ariel Ministries did a great review on the issue here alongside the Messianic brothers/sisters at the Rosh Pina Project as seen here. Dr.Michael Brown also had some good thoughts (as shared here ) as it concerns the ways the apostles practiced Kosher opposite of how many do so legalistically today and what that should teach us in our times when we condemn others in the name of Christ for going to the house of others during outreach/evangelism and proclaiming them inferior because their level of observance with Kosher wasn't the same as our own. For more one can go to Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus: New Testament Objections: Volume 4 - Page 279

Romans 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,
Romans 14:16-18 Romans 14

Romans 15:3
We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves. 2 Each of us should please our neighbors for their good, to build them up. 3 For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: “The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me.”[] 4 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope.
5 May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you the same attitude of mind toward each other that Christ Jesus had, 6 so that with one mind and one voice you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

7 Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God. 8 For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews[b on behalf of God’s truth, so that the promises made to the patriarchs might be confirmed 9 and, moreover, that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy
​

 

[talitim]

In chapter 11 he is chided for going into mens house that were uncircumsised.
Think back to the times the houses would be unkosher because of their normal practice of eating. Cooking anything would have made it unclean yet he ate with them. We as kint de adonoi may not snub the hospitality of the goyim who are saved.
If we do we declare the same things that have been in every (christian) denomination. They don't follow my way therefore they are either unsaved or not saved enough.