My question is simple but serious. How did God come into existence? This is one of the biggest flaws, if not the biggest flaw in the Christian religion, at least for me.
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How Did God Come Into existence?
- Thread starter Shane Plew
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Girder of Loins
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If God were within the physical universe, this would be. But He is not.
Now we can get real technical here. There are two ways to look at this. One keeping with science, so lets do that first. Basically, God exists in something of a "metaphysical" universe, and His universe is unlike our own. Time, and therefore causality, are nonexistent. This then allows Him to be omniscient and uncreated.
The less scientific answer would be to say that God exists outside of our universe, and does not belong in a universe. He just always "was". Since He has no tangible(relative to Him) laws governing Him, He can be uncreated.
So the "flaw" is actually only a flaw if you're looking at it from our universe's laws. But since God is not of this universe, He is not bound by such laws(and in fact created said laws).
Now we can get real technical here. There are two ways to look at this. One keeping with science, so lets do that first. Basically, God exists in something of a "metaphysical" universe, and His universe is unlike our own. Time, and therefore causality, are nonexistent. This then allows Him to be omniscient and uncreated.
The less scientific answer would be to say that God exists outside of our universe, and does not belong in a universe. He just always "was". Since He has no tangible(relative to Him) laws governing Him, He can be uncreated.
So the "flaw" is actually only a flaw if you're looking at it from our universe's laws. But since God is not of this universe, He is not bound by such laws(and in fact created said laws).
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And your proof? Can this "metaphysical universe" be demonstrated? I am not asking a question based on laws of our universe, I am asking for proof. If it exists there will be proof for it in some way or another. Why would anyone buy into something with no proof? To do such a thing is not reasonable.
Beyond all that, where is the biblical "evidence" of your claim? The Bible is after all is the only "evidence" of God.
Beyond all that, where is the biblical "evidence" of your claim? The Bible is after all is the only "evidence" of God.
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Girder of Loins
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From my knowledge that I have now, I use Einstein's Theory of Relativity to back my faith up scientifically. If you don't know what it is, it says that our universe is made up of space and time in a special bond called space-time. But I will focus on the time. Time is linear, we know that. We can only move forward in time, never backward(establishing the law of causality). If time is linear, and B cannot cause A, then we know that the universe at some point had a beginning. Now you may say the Big Bang theory. Wrong. The Big Bang theory cannot explain how the universe began, only how matter entered our universe from nothing. There is no current model to show how the universe itself began. While I am completely open to a model showing me, as of right now, I am holding on to the belief that there is a metaphysical universe with some uncreated being that created us all.
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Are you really so uncomfortable with saying you don't know something that you have to create something that is completely unsupported to explain it? You still didn't answer my question about where your biblical "evidence" was. I never asked for scientific evidence because as of right now there is none. I was previously aware of everything you stated about relativity and that does not point to a god, God, or a metaphysical universe. All I want is your biblical "evidence" and the answer to why you would believe something with absolutely no proof.
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No it shouldn't be. To believe a claim as extraordinary as a god or God on faith is not only unreasonable and absurd, but insane.
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Do you have a better explanation for why we're all here? I'm interested in hearing it
No I don't, but I will happily wait for one. I don't even care if I ever know because the point is quite irrelevant to my existence. Unlike you I'm okay with saying I don't know how something works and neither does anyone else.
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And there is your problem, you are assuming it was created. That is why I asked my question the way I did. It doesn't ask why, who, or what. It doesn't even ask when or where. It only asks how which is the first question you have to ask in order to get to the other five or at least the first three.
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Agreed except that there could have been nothing instead of something. Also there doesn't necessarily have to be a beginning either.
All I want is for someone to tell me why they would believe something on faith. Nobody seems to be able to provide me with an answer.
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Chany
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Shane Plew said:
Out of nothing nothing comes. If nothing exists, the only thing that will exist is nothing.
And yes, there must be a beginning because an infinite chain of beings is impossible.
There are only three apparent options: something must always just had to exist, there was nothing before this universe, or there is an infinite regress of finite causes causing the one after it.
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Neither you or me has any idea as to how everything in the known universe got to be the way it is. So back to the point. How did God come into existence and why would you believe something on faith alone?
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I Eat Pie
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Well I guess you'de have to read the Bible for that or ask someone who knows a lot about Christianity. In my few years of following the faith, I don't know much either. That's kinda the reason I was looking for websites like this. So i can learn and understand more. Sorry that I couldn't do much in helping you with your questions :3
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