Romney just cost himself the election

[MachZer0]

Or his "typical white woman" mother.

I believe that was his grandmother. Since his actual mother abandoned him he wouldn't have known much about her

 

[Thekla]

WHAT ROMNEY SAID WAS 47% OF THE VOTES, NOT AMERICA. 47% OF THE VOTES IN 2008 EQUALS 61 MILLION PEOPLE. THAT'S LESS THAN 1 IN 5 AMERICANS. GIVEN 50 MILLION PEOPLE RECEIVE FOOD STAMPS AND 27 MILLION FAMILIES ARE DEPENDANT ON GOVERNMENT HANDOUTS, THEN HIS NUMBERS ARE ACCURATE. THOSE PEOPLE WILL VOTE FOR OBAMA. IT'S NOT THAT ROMNEY WILL STOP WELFARE PROGRAMS BUT HOPEFULLY HE'LL HELP REFORM THEM AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT UNION PENSIONS AND ENTITLEMENTS.
MAYBE IF WE GOT BACK TO THE BASICS OF WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS: For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either. 2 Thes. 3:10
Families need to care for their own and the churches help as well. A life dependant welfare with no work ethic removes dignity from a person and turns him into a complacent unproductive person. This is the worst thing you can perpetrate on society. Serious reform is needed in that area. Serious reform is needed with government unions (that should have never existed).
----------------------------------------
"I went past the field of a sluggard,
past the vineyard of someone who has no sense;
thorns had come up everywhere,
the ground was covered with weeds,
and the stone wall was in ruins.
I applied my heart to what I observed
and learned a lesson from what I saw:
A little sleep, a little slumber,
a little folding of the hands to rest—
and poverty will come on you like a thief
and scarcity like an armed man. PROVERBS 24:30-34

Reform is needed - but I think it's likely untrue that all of those who receive benefits are unwilling to work.

I also repeat - Romney needs to stick to his standard and speak just as forcefully on welfare for corporation. And apply his pay tax ethos to all - millionaires and corporations included.

 

[conamer]

I believe that was his grandmother. Since his actual mother abandoned him he wouldn't have known much about her

Ah, yes.

 

[freezerman2000]

What he said appears not to have hurt him to badly..
Daily Presidential Tracking Poll - Rasmussen Reports™

 

[MachZer0]

Ah, yes.

It's odd how our liberal friends will twist what Romney says about the poo into a pretzel and ignore the fact that Obama has blood relatives living in abject poverty for whom he has not lifted a pinky finger to help, and he had a mother dying of cancer whom he never bothered to visit in the hospital.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Interesting result from the poll tracking Sticky thread:

Electoral results in:

Obama down 2 in Michigan, 4 in MA after gaining previously, both still likely to stay in Obama's court.

Romney gains a point in PA, still solid Obama though.

Va stays same, 4 pints in favor of Obama.

Only significant change is Obama slips a point in Colorado making it a toss up state.

 

[Vylo]

What he said appears not to have hurt him to badly..
Daily Presidential Tracking Poll - Rasmussen Reports™

Polling on the question generally suggested that only half of people cared at all, but that almost a 2 to 1 ratio said it made them less like to vote for Romney.

How much that will actually add up to and last is anyone's guess though. Had it been 2 or 3 weeks later, it would have been much worse for him.

 

[conamer]

It's odd how our liberal friends will twist what Romney says about the poo into a pretzel and ignore the fact that Obama has blood relatives living in abject poverty for whom he has not lifted a pinky finger to help, and he had a mother dying of cancer whom he never bothered to visit in the hospital.

Mach, he sez all the right words their itching ears want to hear though. He can't help it him bro lives in a hut. His government won't help him, Obama's hands are tied.

 

[TeddyReceptus]

It worked for Obama.

Or did you think the folks who clung to their guns and their religion voted for him?

Oh no doubt he lost some votes there. But as I pointed out in my earlier post where the fullness of that quote was repeated, it is nothing like Romney's discard of 47% of Americans.

Not even close.

But yes, no doubt, Obama lost some cred there among many. And rightfully so. As a politician he can't speak like that. It wasn't right for him and it isn't right for Romney.

 

[Ronald]

Reform is needed - but I think it's likely untrue that all of those who receive benefits are unwilling to work.

Not all of them don't work either, Romney didn't say that nor did I. Dependent on hand-outs also translates as millions of government union pension collectors getting over the top and then some for long periods of time. So 6 % of workers out there are government union workers = 9 million workers. We can't afford it, it's bankrupting cities across the nation. They'll vote Democrat because their dues go to support Democrats so they can in turn scratch their backs and so it goes.

I also repeat - Romney needs to stick to his standard and speak just as forcefully on welfare for corporation. And apply his pay tax ethos to all - millionaires and corporations included.

Everyone needs to pay their fair share. It's interesting that the top 2% (rich) pays over 70% of the taxes in this country.

 

[mathetes123]

Everyone needs to pay their fair share. It's interesting that the top 2% (rich) pays over 70% of the taxes in this country.

Seems like we should be giving the rich a tax cut just to even things out. Better yet, why not just cut the spending? What a novel idea!

 

[Vylo]

Everyone needs to pay their fair share. It's interesting that the top 2% (rich) pays over 70% of the taxes in this country.

I can remember off the top of my head those numbers are way off.

In fact the top 5% don't even pay 60% of total federal income tax:

Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data | Tax Foundation

In order to reach that 70% you have to go top the top 10%, and that is only income tax, where the rich pay less then others in taxes like payroll.

 

[TeddyReceptus]

Seems like we should be giving the rich a tax cut just to even things out.

What a great idea! Let's do some math!

Richie Rich makes $2.1 million and due to proper accounting and the fact that much of his money comes form capital gains pays about 13% tax rate. Let's assume Richie has no deductions (unlikely) he will pay $273,000 leaving him with a paltry $1.8 million.

Lazy Larry works at "Slug-Mart" and pulls down a respectable $40,000 and due to having to go to Tax-Pros Tax Preparation service pays 25% tax rate (again, no deducations for arguments sake). He pays $10,000 leaving him with $30,000. He's livin' high on the hog. Unless he made the bad decision to live in a city of any size at which point he's barely able to make ends meet.

I hope Richie Rich is happy. I mean asking him to pay even the same rate as Lazy Larry is insulting. Let alone more than Lazy Larry. It takes a lot of money to live as Richie does, unlike Lazy Larry who seems to revel in living in squalor. Otherwise he'd do better and be like Richie Rich.

Better yet, why not just cut the spending? What a novel idea!

Yay! Let's start with corporate subsidies for Richie Rich's ventures!

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

In fact the top 5% don't even pay 60% of total federal income tax:

Oh yeah, what a terrible situation. The top 5% "don't even pay 60%". Should the top 5% pay 100% in your opinion?

 

[TeddyReceptus]

Oh yeah, what a terrible situation. The top 5% "don't even pay 60%". Should the top 5% pay 100% in your opinion?

I am fascinated that this bothers some people.

May I challenge you: if you are offended by this and you think you might be paying too much in taxes to live as the people in the bottom percentiles live.

If it is so good (basically just free time and free money), why don't you live like they do?

It's the same question I pose to people who complain about how much teachers get paid. If it is SOOOOO GOOOOOD, why don't you give it a shot? It's pretty easy to wind up down there. Just quit your job (well actually quitting won't get you any unemployment, so you have to wait to be laid off, but that'll happen to most of us sooner or later at some point), and then move into section 8 housing (these places are usually just so glamorous! If you can see the floor through the cockroaches). If you can get foodstamps (not guaranteed, it's not like they just give 'em out to just anyone (here's the eligibility requirements here, if you want a fast start --expedited benefits--looks like you have to make less than $150/month and have less than $100 in the bank, ouch!)

Then start enjoyin' the HIGH LIFE! But it isn't all freebies all the time. You will still have to pay some taxes. In fact buying gas and goods will consume a huge percentage of your income now, but hey, it's all good! You're poor!

WOW! This guy looks like he's got it "made in the shade"!!!

For comparison this is a car elevator:

Looks like someone needs to get the hedges trimmed. Probably not this month...gotta cut back and save some money!

 

[Thekla]

More on taxes and the "47%"


A separate TPC analysis categorized people who do not owe federal income tax in 2011 in a different way.* It found that of the filers who don’t owe federal income tax for 2011:

50 percent are in this category because their incomes are so low that they are less than the sum of the standard deduction and personal and dependent exemptions for which the household qualifies. As TPC Senior Fellow Roberton Williams has noted, “the basic structure of the income tax simply exempts subsistence levels of income from tax.”** Some 62 percent of the households who will owe no federal income tax in 2011 have incomes under $20,000.

Another 22 percent do not owe federal income tax because they are elderly people who benefit from tax provisions to aid senior citizens, such as the exemption of Social Security benefits from income tax for beneficiaries who have incomes below $25,000 for single filers and $32,000 for joint filers and the higher standard deduction for the elderly.

Another 15 percent (of the households who don’t owe federal income tax) don’t owe the tax because they are low-income working families with children who qualify for the child tax credit, the child and dependent care tax credit, and/or the earned income tax credit, and the credit(s) eliminate their income tax liability.***
Misconceptions and Realities About Who Pays Taxes — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

 

[Vylo]

Oh yeah, what a terrible situation. The top 5% "don't even pay 60%". Should the top 5% pay 100% in your opinion?

I do think the tax scale should be progressive to allow those of lower income to accrue wealth and the potential to compete and have economic mobility.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

I am fascinated that this bothers some people.

May I challenge you: if you are offended by this and you think you might be paying too much in taxes to live as the people in the bottom percentiles live.

!

Can't win by logic, so you resort to emotional appeal. Seems very common.

I grew up very unrich. We lived in a rented mobile home, I got free school lunches, and my Mom and Dad worked minimum wage jobs.

 

[Thekla]

Everyone needs to pay their fair share. It's interesting that the top 2% (rich) pays over 70% of the taxes in this country.

So how do you envision "fair share" ?

What percentage of income tax should someone working a minimum wage job pay ?

Would you, or not, offset that by the (dis)proportionate percentage of income paid by a low wage job holder by the reverse disproportionate percentage paid in federal excise, payroll, state, local, and sales taxes ?

How would you account for the disproportionate benefit to some high income earners from federal expenditure for military intervention (overt and covert), diplomatic intervention, international court expenditures (the present admin. has so far brought 14 trade cases against China), etc. meant to and resulting in opening and maintaining overseas markets ?

Does the parable of the Widow's mite affect your view on this matter ?

 

[TeddyReceptus]

Can't win by logic, so you resort to emotional appeal. Seems very common.

Hmmm, I think my point is reasonable. I hear all this talk about how good it is to be poor (free time and free money) that I really don't understand why you'd put yourself into a position to make lots of money.

I mean if Mitt pays 13% on his millions he only gets to keep about a couple million each year. Meanwhile people who are on the bottom might catch a break and while a greater portion of their income goes to taxes (in the form of sales taxes and various payroll taxes) than people like Mitt et al. seems kinda "OK" to me.

If you pay out $3million on an annual income of $20million do you think you can make a go of it on a paltry $17 million? So when a person pulls down a whopping $20,000 is it reasonable to assume that they will equally be comfortable after taxes on $15,000?

That's kind of what we are talking about. I bet Mitt can live just fine on $17million/year.

But more to the point let's run some simple math:

Let's assume there's 10 people in "America II".

1 person makes $20million/year
2 people make $500,000/year
3 people make $80,000/year
2 people make $40,000/year
1 person makes $10,000/year

Let's assume a flat tax rate of 25% for everyone. No deductions, no loopholes, no nothin'.

1 person will pay $5 million in taxes
2 people will pay $125,000 in taxes
3 people will pay $2000 in taxes
2 people will pay $1000 in taxes
1 person will pay $2500 in taxes

The top earner will pay 94% of the taxes in "America II"
the two people next in line will pay ~5%
the three people in the middle will pay ~1%
The other three pay less than 1% of the taxes.

If you want to scale it in different ways we can.

Looks to me like this will play out similarly. So the only way to make it each person only pays 10% of the total tax burden will be to make it extremely harsh on the bottom and extremely lenient on the top.

I have lived at the bottom. Maybe not in the ditch, but in a trailor.

Hey, I've lived in a trailer too! I've lived in one-room apartments. I've scraped by on far less than I needed to live. I've spent Novembers with my electricity shut off (apparently it can happen, even in the Midwest!) I've kited checks just to get food.

Maybe it's because I lived this way I appreciate that sometimes people need help. And indeed I am impressed that people like Mitt Romney who makes, what $21million/year or so might pay a lower percentage of his income than I do.