75% of Catholics think abortion is okay?

[AMDG]

I was turning off the TV last night when I happened to catch Juan Williams tell folks that Gallup Poll says that 75% of Catholics think that abortion is okay and that they don't have to believe in that old fashioned Vatican. Times change. It's like not eating fish on Friday. Once it was wrong. But now it's okay. What?

Since when do Catholics think abortion is okay? You can't be Catholic and believe abortion is not immoral. It's a tenet of the faith. Procuring (and supporting) abortion carries an automatic excommunication. And why be Catholic in the first place if one doesn't intend to follow the dictates of the Bishop of Rome?

Is this what non-Catholics really believe about us? No wonder Obama is confused.

 

[Chany]

Culture Catholics. Enough said.

 

[Rebekka]

Culture Catholics. Enough said.

Yep. If you were baptized in the catholic church as a baby you didn't exactly choose to be catholic. And you can't unbaptize yourself. So "why be catholic in the first place" isn't the right question to ask. Or it is. But that's a baptism discussion.

 

[The Professor]

Religious membership and actual belief being linked together is a relatively new concept.

That being said.

On the whole fish thing

Are their still Catholic in hell on a "eating meat on Friday" wrap ? Or were they all granted clemency after the rule change ?

 

[Rebekka]

On the whole fish thing

Are their still Catholic in hell on a "eating meat on Friday" wrap ? Or were they all granted clemency after the rule change ?

Interesting question, I don't know the answer.

We're supposed to obey the church at all times, even in disciplines such as the fasting rules. So even if eating meat on Fridays is no longer sinful per se (if compensated by some other penance), disobeying the church would be. (Kind of a Barbertje-situation, and unfair.)

 

[MikeK]

Have you got a link to the poll? I'd like to read the question as asked and see who was questioned. Thanks.

I was turning off the TV last night when I happened to catch Juan Williams tell folks that Gallup Poll says that 75% of Catholics think that abortion is okay and that they don't have to believe in that old fashioned Vatican. Times change. It's like not eating fish on Friday. Once it was wrong. But now it's okay. What?

Since when do Catholics think abortion is okay? You can't be Catholic and believe abortion is not immoral. It's a tenet of the faith. Procuring (and supporting) abortion carries an automatic excommunication. And why be Catholic in the first place if one doesn't intend to follow the dictates of the Bishop of Rome?

Is this what non-Catholics really believe about us? No wonder Obama is confused.

 

[sylverpiano]

Polls are notoriously flawed. I would believe this result from Gallup had they been polling lapsed Catholics.

The second problem here is that Juan Williams could very well have been quoting a poll that was conducted to get the opinions of lapsed Catholics and then conveniently left the word "Lapsed" out of his statement.

This is called "Spin"

Both sides of the political aisle quote things out of context and will cherry pick sections of statements, sometimes only quoting part of a sentence, to further an agenda. It is getting to the point that you have to double and triple check everything you read just to arrive at the often elusive truth.

The upcoming election is rapidly leaving me with no one for whom I can vote with good conscience.

 

[Winter]

I wouldn't be surprised if a huge amount of "nominal Catholics" were in that poll. I can't tell you how many folks I know claim they are Catholic just because they were baptized in a Catholic church as in infant - yet weren't raised in the faith. Or folks who were raised Catholic but don't follow their faith anymore -yet- still call themselves Catholic. Its those folks who can really mislead the media.

But then there are all those cafeteria Catholics who want their cake and eat it too. I wouldn't be surprised if they're stuck in that poll as well.

 

[Elvisman]

Religious membership and actual belief being linked together is a relatively new concept.

That being said.

On the whole fish thing

Are their still Catholic in hell on a "eating meat on Friday" wrap ? Or were they all granted clemency after the rule change ?

Nobody is in hell for eating meat on Friday. They may be in hell for disobeying the Supreme Authority of the Church who forbade the eating of meat on Friday (Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23).

Just like I told one of my Confirmation students, who said that watching football on Sunday morning was not a mortal sin. I told him that he was correct. However, watching football instead of going to Mass was sinful.
Again - it'a all a matter of faithfulness vs. disobedience.

 

[Rebekka]

Nobody is in hell for eating meat on Friday. They may be in hell for disobeying the Supreme Authority of the Church who forbade the eating of meat on Friday (Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23).

Exactly my point and what I meant by a Barbertje. And I couldn't agree less with the obedience rule.

 

[Elvisman]

Exactly my point and what I meant by a Barbertje. And I couldn't agree less with the obedience rule.

You couldn't agree less that the Church is Christ's Authority on earth?
How do you respond to Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, 20:21-23?

 

[Rebekka]

You couldn't agree less that the Church is Christ's Authority on earth?
How do you respond to Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, 20:21-23?

I don't have time to look up those verses so please give them to me.

And look at my religious icon.

I find it ridiculous that one would be in hell for eating meat on a Friday and another person wouldn't, just because they were born 50 years apart. It's either a sin or it isn't.

 

[stp]

AMDG said in part: I was turning off the TV last night when I happened to catch Juan Williams tell folks that Gallup Poll says that 75% of Catholics think that abortion is okay....
-----------

That was on "The O'Reilly Factor" last night. That's not what Juan Williams said. He said that the Gallup Poll says that 40% of Catholics believe that abortion is morally acceptable. Bill O'Reilly said that he didn't believe the poll that Williams was citing because O'Reilly had the poll numbers from a Knights of Columbus poll that said 75% of Catholics think abortion is immoral. Neither man said the dates of the polls they were quoting or how the specific questions were worded in these 2 polls.

 

[Elvisman]

I don't have time to look up those verses so please give them to me.

And look at my religious icon.

I find it ridiculous that one would be in hell for eating meat on a Friday and another person wouldn't, just because they were born 50 years apart. It's either a sin or it isn't.

It doesn’t matter what you think. What matters is what our Lord Jesus SAID.
All of these verses are about Christ's Authority being given to His Church:

Matt 16:16-19
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matt. 18:15-18
"If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.
If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me."

John 16:12-15
“I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

The bottom line is this:
Catholics either accept the Catholic Church, its authority and its interpretation of Scripture or you reject it. However, if they reject it, they are rejecting Jesus. That’s what HE said (Luke 10:16)

 

[MKJ]

Is there not something odd about insisting the baptized who don't believe don't count for a poll, but they are obligated, say, to follow the Church's rules for marriage?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

AMDG said in part: I was turning off the TV last night when I happened to catch Juan Williams tell folks that Gallup Poll says that 75% of Catholics think that abortion is okay....
-----------

That was on "The O'Reilly Factor" last night. That's not what Juan Williams said. He said that the Gallup Poll says that 40% of Catholics believe that abortion is morally acceptable. Bill O'Reilly said that he didn't believe the poll that Williams was citing because O'Reilly had the poll numbers from a Knights of Columbus poll that said 75% of Catholics think abortion is immoral. Neither man said the dates of the polls they were quoting or how the specific questions were worded in these 2 polls.

Opps another discredited thread !


Jim

 

[Elvisman]

I find it ridiculous that one would be in hell for eating meat on a Friday and another person wouldn't, just because they were born 50 years apart. It's either a sin or it isn't.

That's because you're not listening.
NOBODY is in hell for eating meat on Friday. They are in hell for disobeying Christ's Supreme Authority.
As for what is considered sinful - what about the dietary Laws that the Jews had to adhere to before Christ, which are no necessary?

It's ALWAYS a sin to disobey Christ's Church - His Body - because it is the fullness of Him (Eph. 1:22-23). It is the only entity on earth that Jesus compared with His very SELF (Acts 9:4-5). The Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15) - and the Truth is Christ Himself (John 14:6).

 

[Rebekka]

It doesn’t matter what you think. What matters is what our Lord Jesus SAID.

Ah, if it doesn't matter what I think then I won't bother responding. You needn't have asked me, then. I didn't know you were only asking rhetoric questions. Silly me.

 

[Elvisman]

Ah, if it doesn't matter what I think then I won't bother responding. You needn't have asked me, then. I didn't know you were only asking rhetoric questions. Silly me.

I'll go even further than that: It doesn't matter what I think either, if I am at odds with Jesus Christ.
What matters is what HE said and what HE commanded.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Bekks - Elvisman said it's not about eating meat - it's about disobedience.

BTW - the no more meat on Fridays - is not actually true. We must still give up meat - or something else - if for health reasons we must eat meat... or cant give it up for some reason or we simply dont eat meat in the first place. [insert vegans and vegetarians here]

But we should substitute for something else - and frankly it isnt just about obedience Elvis - it is not wanting to do a penance - and penances are really for our own benefit... which is why our shepherd requires this.
Its for US - it's all about US.

Penances can reduce time spent in the next life - in purgatory. Usually abstaining is a partial indulgence. It isnt plenary - however; its best to indulge in penances every chance one gets.

I doubt very much anyone went to hell for not eating meat. It's not a strict dietary demand, but penances of some kind are required for our own sakes. Now if we skip on doing them - it is then how the heart is judged - not the actions.
Some might be forgetful on what day it is - or some dont actually know the rule is still in affect.
Then others who say 'I dont care...' might be the ones who have a tricky time of it. Not because they skimmed on the action - but their heart was so far away from God.

I genuinely dont know the outcome of refusing to abstain - i just know God reads hearts. And i know penances do a world of good when that time comes....if the heart is contrite.