Do you wear a tallit in church?

[Yitzchak]

not to mention the jews hated paul, they kept beating him up, and tried to kill him, like all of the sudden they are going to but a tallit off the guy?

that would make no sense.

Paul had many Jewish converts. He spent three months in the synagogue in this situation.

Act 19:8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
Act 19:9 But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.

Here , Paul is invited to preach a sermon in the synagogue.

Act 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
Act 13:15 And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.
Act 13:16 Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience.

Ironically , the very next verse after the tentmaking verse says that Paul was in the synagogue every sabbath. The opposite of what you are suggesting. The early Church was made up of many Jewish converts enough so that even it was only them that purchased prayer shawls , there would be a booming business. But this totally made up theory of yours is simply not true that Paul was universally boycotted by the Jewish community.

Act 18:3 And because he was of the same craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by their occupation they were tentmakers.
Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Your false and unbiblical premise that Paul was anti Jewish keeps coming up again and again and skewing your views.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

The tallit word in the Greek in Acts 18, also says leather in the Greek, does a tallit have leather?

Paul was from tarsus, where they made the tents that people live in.

Paul would be able to make tents in Corinth, while he worked for a living, they had olympic type games there, they would need tents for the visitors, just like we would have motels to stay in while visiting the events.

Why would it take 3 people in Acts 18 to make a small tallit? He worked with P and Q who made tents, it was not tallits. 3 people don't make a tallit.

Paul also would not be wise to make a garment, that he would not want his gentile churches to wear. He fought off judaism, he would not promote it.

Abraham had no tallit, and they were sons of Abe, without a tallit.

There you have it, from the frog, thanks.

Whatever would the Greeks know about a tallit? There was no such thing in their culture. A tallit may be made out of any material. The tefillin are made of leather. Also, there are strict instructions in making a tallit. It's not just a piece of material that one sews together and just ties some strings to. Yes, it could have taken more than one person to make a tallit. One to cut, another to dye, another to make the tzittiz's ect.. There is a complex procedure for tying the knots of the tzitzit, filled with religious and numerological significance. I believe it also needed Rabbinical certification. In order to make a living off of it I'm sure they made more than one.

Since you believe Paul would not be wise to make a garment that he would not want his Gentile churches to wear, then perhaps, since he did make such a garment that means that you have misunderstood Paul.

Abraham was before the time that God gave the instructions of the making and the purpose of a tallit to Moses. Jesus and all of His disciples wore a tallit. A tallit is a big part of a wedding garment. When we are at the marriage supper of the Lamb and He's wearing a tallit, are you going to tell HIM He looks silly?

There you have it from the Psalmist and you're welcome

 

[Frogster]

So are you saying that this same Greek word " skenos " translated in this verse as tabernacle should be translated as leather ? That seems silly.






Are you also saying that Peter wanted to do some leather working in this passage ? Again the same Greek word skenos is used.



Were they trying to find leather for God in this verse ?



Did the Word in this verse make leather among us? Again the Greek word skenos is used.




In this verse , the Hebrew " Yeshab " used for dwell is translated into our word skenos in the Septuagint. It has absolutely nothing to do with leather.





Is there a single verse you can cite where skenos is translated as leather ??

Greetings friend.

PORTABLE TYPES, USED FOR TRAVELLERS, JUST LIKE I SAID ABOUT PAUL IN CORINTH. IT SAYS LEATHER, LEATHER WAS USED IN MAKING SLEEPY TIME TENTS, NOT TALLITS, SO YOU ARE INCORRECT. It wouldn't stress poertable for a tallit, because everyone knows that is portable anyway, no, they were not tallits in Acts 18.

ACTS 18:3.


tentmakers
New Testament Greek Definition:
4635 skenopoios {skay-nop-oy-os'}
from 4633 and 4160; TDNT - 7:393,1040; adj
AV - tentmaker 1; 1
1) a tentmaker
2) one that makes small portable tents, of leather or cloth of goat's
hair or linen, for the use of travellers

 

[Frogster]

Paul had many Jewish converts. He spent three months in the synagogue in this situation.



Here , Paul is invited to preach a sermon in the synagogue.





Ironically , the very next verse after the tentmaking verse says that Paul was in the synagogue every sabbath. The opposite of what you are suggesting. The early Church was made up of many Jewish converts enough so that even it was only them that purchased prayer shawls , there would be a booming business. But this totally made up theory of yours is simply not true that Paul was universally boycotted by the Jewish community.






Your false and unbiblical premise that Paul was anti Jewish keeps coming up again and again and skewing your views.

My dear brother...Skewed? please continue reading Acts 18.


18:6 And when they opposed and reviled him, he shook out his garments and said to them, “Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.”




Acts20:19 serving the Lord with all humility and with tears and with trials that happened to me through the plots of the Jews;



Acts 23:12 When it was day, the Jews made a plot and bound themselves by an oath neither to eat nor drink till they had killed Paul.


Acts 24:27 When two years had elapsed, Felix was succeeded by Porcius Festus. And desiring to do the Jews a favor, Felix left Paul in prison.


Acts 17:13 But when the Jews from Thessalonica learned that the word of God was proclaimed by Paul at Berea also, they came there too, agitating and stirring up the crowds.



The synagogue leaders opened his back up 5 times, 39 lashes, that is in 2 Cor 11.
Just because Jews came to the Lord, lets not act like paul was a poster boy for them.

 

[Frogster]

Whatever would the Greeks know about a tallit? There was no such thing in their culture. A tallit may be made out of any material. The tefillin are made of leather. Also, there are strict instructions in making a tallit. It's not just a piece of material that one sews together and just ties some strings to. Yes, it could have taken more than one person to make a tallit. One to cut, another to dye, another to make the tzittiz's ect.. There is a complex procedure for tying the knots of the tzitzit, filled with religious and numerological significance. I believe it also needed Rabbinical certification. In order to make a living off of it I'm sure they made more than one.

Since you believe Paul would not be wise to make a garment that he would not want his Gentile churches to wear, then perhaps, since he did make such a garment that means that you have misunderstood Paul.

Abraham was before the time that God gave the instructions of the making and the purpose of a tallit to Moses. Jesus and all of His disciples wore a tallit. A tallit is a big part of a wedding garment. When we are at the marriage supper of the Lamb and He's wearing a tallit, are you going to tell HIM He looks silly?

There you have it from the Psalmist and you're welcome

Conjecture here about 3 tallit makers. Paul says to Priscilla...."pass the knife"...hehehehe..

The Galatians had the Spirit as sons of Abraham, and Abe had no tallit, you are trying to put a wish on common scriptural sense. Paul used Abraham to ward off judaism, he would not in any way, want them wearing a Jewish garment of clothing.

yes, I think it looks silly when a gentile is wearing a jewish garment of clothing, that is my opinion.

besides, the jews hated paul as shown above, they would not even want to do business with him. I could have posted more verses that show the hatred for apul also. Common sense says they would not beat him, then somehow want to buy a tallit from him.

 

[Frogster]

Yitzchak.

All the Jewish Christians were living as Gentiles in Antioch, and it caused division there when peter started to live as a jew because of food stuff, likewise wearing a tallit would cause division also, and only bolster the old animosity between the two parties. And no way would Paul, who fought off nationalism and Jewish pride, want his gentiles acting subordinate, by wearing jewish clothing, that would only rebuild everything he fought.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Skenoo is Koine Greek. It is derived from the Hebrew 'Shekan'...'to dwell.' It is the same Greek word used in John 1 'he DWELT among us.'

 

[Frogster]

and people at the olympic type games in corinth where Paul worked would not dwell in a garment of clothing, they would dwell in the tents that they slept in, utill the games ended.

 

[Yitzchak]

Greetings friend.

PORTABLE TYPES, USED FOR TRAVELLERS, JUST LIKE I SAID ABOUT PAUL IN CORINTH. IT SAYS LEATHER, LEATHER WAS USED IN MAKING SLEEPY TIME TENTS, NOT TALLITS, SO YOU ARE INCORRECT. It wouldn't stress poertable for a tallit, because everyone knows that is portable anyway, no, they were not tallits in Acts 18.

ACTS 18:3.


tentmakers
New Testament Greek Definition:
4635 skenopoios {skay-nop-oy-os'}
from 4633 and 4160; TDNT - 7:393,1040; adj
AV - tentmaker 1; 1
1) a tentmaker
2) one that makes small portable tents, of leather or cloth of goat's
hair or linen, for the use of travellers

There is not a single verse in the Bible , old or new Testament where the word skenos in any form of the word is translated as Leather. Your argument that this somehow proves that the word tent should somehow have something to do with leather is absurd to the extreme. That would like saying that you found somewhere in some extra biblical source where someone made a tent that was green and color and therefore the word tent should really be translated as green. It just makes no sense to use that as a basis to interpret that passage as though it proves something. At best it is speculation to say that the verse in question means making tents out of leather.

I am not saying that the verse states that the tents being refered to our definately prayer shawls either. But that speculation at leats has some biblical precedent since the Hebrew word tent is sometimes used in place of prayer shawl in the Old Testament. Thw word skenos is used for our earthly body in a few places but context would suggest that Paul was making human bodies.

 

[Yitzchak]

Skenoo is Koine Greek. It is derived from the Hebrew 'Shekan'...'to dwell.' It is the same Greek word used in John 1 'he DWELT among us.'

It is not an exact science to re construct the history of a word , but this conclusion seems likely and would get at least some agreement from language scholars as a probable explanation. I would agree.

 

[Frogster]

There is not a single verse in the Bible , old or new Testament where the word skenos in any form of the word is translated as Leather. Your argument that this somehow proves that the word tent should somehow have something to do with leather is absurd to the extreme. That would like saying that you found somewhere in some extra biblical source where someone made a tent that was green and color and therefore the word tent should really be translated as green. It just makes no sense to use that as a basis to interpret the Bible.

it says leather in the Strongs. I posted it, and it implies portable living tents for travellers. Why would it say portable for a tallit?

ACTS 18:3.


tentmakers
New Testament Greek Definition:
4635 skenopoios {skay-nop-oy-os'}
from 4633 and 4160; TDNT - 7:393,1040; adj
AV - tentmaker 1; 1
1) a tentmaker
2) one that makes small portable tents, of leather or cloth of goat's
hair or linen, for the use of travellers



by the way, we see paul was no poster boy for the jews.

 

[Frogster]

I can juse see it now...paul selling tallits to his gentiles!

 

[Yitzchak]

I can juse see it now...paul selling tallits to his gentiles!

I think that it is more likely that Paul would sell prayer shawls to the Jews.

 

[Yitzchak]

it says leather in the Strongs. I posted it, and it implies portable living tents for travellers. Why would it say portable for a tallit?

ACTS 18:3.


tentmakers
New Testament Greek Definition:
4635 skenopoios {skay-nop-oy-os'}
from 4633 and 4160; TDNT - 7:393,1040; adj
AV - tentmaker 1; 1
1) a tentmaker
2) one that makes small portable tents, of leather or cloth of goat's
hair or linen, for the use of travellers

I understood where you got it from. You got it from the speculations about what a tent might have been like in those days. But the word for leather is a completely different word than the word tent. As I said it is like reading somewhere that green was a popular color for tents in Bible days and then inserting the word green into Bible text which merely says tents , not green tents. The Verse does not say he made leather tents. It simply says he made tents. The word leather does not appear in the bible text.

All of this speculation is based solely upon the assumption some have made that those tents were portable tents that were being made out of one of the usual materials that one would normally make a tent out of. They then speculate as to what material these tents were made from. One could just as easially speculate upon the color or exact size of the tents.

However , if one takes the actual text and looks at the various Bible meanings for the word tent , they will find it could be a tent or it could be a person's body or it could mean a prayer shawl or it could be applied in a more general sense to any dwelling. The Bible uses the word tent in all of these ways.

 

[Frogster]

I think that it is more likely that Paul would sell prayer shawls to the Jews.

what do you think would happen if a gentile wanted to wear a tallit in Antioch?

 

[whitebeaches]

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[Yitzchak]

what do you think would happen if a gentile wanted to wear a tallit in Antioch?

I think the Leadership would have attempted to instruct them against doing so.

 

[New_Wineskin]

what do you think would happen if a gentile wanted to wear a tallit in Antioch?

The question is not about *what* they do but *why* they do it .
If they do it as the person in your OP , there are definite concerns . But , there are innocent reasons , as well . Using Law to keep someone from what you think is the Law keeps the mindset alive instead of squelching it .

 

[Frogster]

I think the Leadership would have attempted to instruct them against doing so.

Why do you think they would instruct against it, as I do?

 

[Frogster]

The question is not about *what* they do but *why* they do it .
If they do it as the person in your OP , there are definite concerns . But , there are innocent reasons , as well . Using Law to keep someone from what you think is the Law keeps the mindset alive instead of squelching it .

I undersdtand your point, we don't want to turn Paul into Moses, but he instructs to point to grace, it is works to think we need a garment or do shabaat to gain the Spriit, so Paul instructs against the mindset.