Creationism is Inappropriate for Children

[leo J]

Quoting Wikipedia on the difference between Genesis 1 and 2:

"
While Genesis 2 is a simple linear narrative proceeding from God's forming the first man through the Garden of Eden to the creation of the first woman and the institution of marriage, Genesis 1 is notable for its elaborate internal structure. It consists of eight acts of creation over six days, framed by an introduction and a conclusion. In each of the first three days there is an act of division: day one divides the darkness from light, day two the "waters above" from the "waters below", and day three the sea from the land. In each of the next three days these divisions are populated: day four populates the darkness and light with sun, moon and stars; day five populates seas and skies with fish and fowl; and finally land-based creatures and mankind populate the land.[13]

There are significant parallels between the two stories, but also significant differences: in the first account mankind (male and female) are created after animals, while in the second the man is created first, then animals, and finally the woman "as the climax of creation."[14] "[T]ogether this combination of parallel character and contrasting profile point to the different origin of materials in Genesis 1:1-2:3 and 2:4b-3:23, however elegantly they have now been combined."[14]"

Specifically, where is there any contradiction? Or are you just saying that they must be make believe because they are "different"?

 

[acropolis]

Specifically, where is there any contradiction? Or are you just saying that they must be make believe because they are "different"?

It's the part that I put in bold text. The order of creation is different between them. It's a contradiction.

 

[ebia]

Genesis 1 is pretty clear and straightforward. How can you possibly interpret it to mean anything other than describing the creation of the world over a six day period?

It's structure is poetic and liturgical. It's main points are theological and about God's intentions for his creation. If you think it's fundamental points are to give some facts we don't need about what happened x thousand years ago you're missing the whole point.

 

[leo J]

It's the part that I put in bold text. The order of creation is different between them. It's a contradiction.

So this:

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

compared to this:

15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

Where do either of the above specifically indicate the order of the day 6 events? And, if either one or the other of them does not, how can they be said to provide a contradicting order of events?

 

[OneWithTime]

Don't feed the troll.

Someone had to do this

But creationism is as logical as evolution and even more logical honestly . To creatures and no matching DNA of any sorts. This is like a worm evolving into a shark and that is just plain hilarious.
But evolution is only clung on to by scientist to upset theist and Christianity specifically. Man became man and that is it and you never hear scientist talking about such radical evolution with other creatures. It is all a scam at the end of the day

 

[acropolis]

Someone had to do this

But creationism is as logical as evolution and even more logical honestly . To creatures and no matching DNA of any sorts. This is like a worm evolving into a shark and that is just plain hilarious.
But evolution is only clung on to by scientist to upset theist and Christianity specifically. Man became man and that is it and you never hear scientist talking about such radical evolution with other creatures. It is all a scam at the end of the day

A huge amount of DNA is shared across even very different animals.

 

[OneWithTime]

A huge amount of DNA is shared across even very different animals.

I am talking about actual family DNA that puts another creature in the same family as another. Pigs for example have a lot of DNA that is close to humans and it is quite a significant percentage but it is why their bodies are used as dummies in medical testing
oink oink

 

[morningstar2651]

You cannot believe in the true God and believe that he lied in His Word.

Jesus told parables - these were stories about things that never actually happened. They weren't lies - they were fiction that he used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson.

What if the creation account in Genesis wasn't literally true, and instead was meant to convey moral or spiritual lessons through fiction?

 

[morningstar2651]

Someone had to do this

But creationism is as logical as evolution and even more logical honestly . To creatures and no matching DNA of any sorts. This is like a worm evolving into a shark and that is just plain hilarious.
But evolution is only clung on to by scientist to upset theist and Christianity specifically. Man became man and that is it and you never hear scientist talking about such radical evolution with other creatures. It is all a scam at the end of the day

I invoke Poe's Law.

 

[OneWithTime]

I invoke Poe's Law.

I declare Shenanigans!
And get Dee Snider off your display pic, it is disturbing

 

[ebia]

I invoke Poe's Law.

Indeed

 

[morningstar2651]

How specifically are they different? What "known facts" do they contradict?

I thought you'd never ask. I'll keep my focus on Genesis 1 and 2.

The Genesis 1 creation account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science. In Genesis, the earth is created before light and stars, birds and whales before reptiles and insects, and flowering plants before any animals. The order of events known from science is just the opposite. 1:1-2:3

God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). And how could there be "the evening and the morning" on the first day if there was no sun to mark them? 1:3-5

God spends one-sixth of his entire creative effort (the second day) working on a solid firmament. This strange structure, which God calls heaven, is intended to separate the higher waters from the lower waters. 1:6-8

Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes (1:14-19). 1:11

God makes two lights: "the greater light [the sun] to rule the day, and the lesser light [the moon] to rule the night." But the moon is not a light, but only reflects light from the sun. And why, if God made the moon to "rule the night", does it spend half of its time moving through the daytime sky? 1:16

"He made the stars also." God spends a day making light (before making the stars) and separating light from darkness; then, at the end of a hard day's work, and almost as an afterthought, he makes the trillions of stars. 1:16

"And God set them [the stars] in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth." 1:17

In verse 11, God "let the earth bring forth" the plants. Now he has the earth "bring forth" the animals as well. So maybe the creationists have it all wrong. Maybe God created livings things through the process of evolution. 1:24

"I have given you every herb ... and every tree ... for meat."
Since many plants have evolved poisons to protect against animals that would like to eat them, God's advice is more than a little reckless. Would you tell your children to go out in the garden and eat whatever plants they encounter? 1:29

All animals were originally herbivores. Tapeworms, vampire bats, mosquitoes, and barracudas -- all were strict vegetarians, as they were created by God. 1:30

In Genesis 1 the entire creation takes 6 days, but the universe is at least 12 billion years old, with new stars constantly being formed. 1:31

Humans were not created instantaneously from dust and breath, but evolved over millions of years from simpler life forms. 2:7

After making the animals, God has Adam name them all. The naming of several million species must have kept Adam busy for a while. 2:18-22

God fashions a woman out of one of Adam's ribs. Because of this story, it was commonly believed (and sometimes it is still said today) that males have one less rib than females. When Vesalius showed in 1543 that the number of ribs was the same in males and females, it created a storm of controversy. 2:19

 

[someguy14]

Evolution is as much of a religion as anything else is.

That is true Dale. All men serve either God or Gods creation, regardless of how many forms they choose. All of God is good and deserves all the credit. May God bless friend.

 

[someguy14]

Can you back up any of these statements? Why should I take your word for it?

Truth is truth, all can agree with that. If one lays claim to discovering a solution to a problem, how much better to give credit unto the one that actually created it. Your conscience bears witness that giving credit to where it is due is a good thing. Who would want to steal credit for personal gain, except those that, in fact, reject love for another and only seek to please themselves. All that one has has been given. Even the body to explore and motivation to discover and eyes to see and limbs to move and mind to think, and rationale to solve. All credit belongs unto God and He alone loves each of us.

 

[someguy14]

How do you know this? As far as I know, the scripture doesn't back any of that up.

All of scripture "backs that up". God is love, and those that serve wickedness, fight against love. Regardless of the wickedest or most loving, all desire love.

 

[someguy14]

The bible is as much of a science as any other, but it is social science; the why's and wherefore's of human behaviour and interaction. It is a map out of the forest or jungle of human social problems (apologies to forests and jungles). Hard science is useful in bringing us a safer and more comfortable physical life, but it is the social science found in the bible that has the most value to humanity. If the scientific mindset of evolutionary thought results in a better life for all give it credit, but also credit the Christian religion for showing us how to live peaceably with each other. (End of Sermon; coffee and donuts at the back of the hall.)

All things are possible with God friend.

 

[someguy14]

Since when has Christianity ever shown us how to live peaceably?!?

Truth is peace. God is truth.

 

[someguy14]

I would say The Society of Friends has done a pretty good job of showing how to live peaceably and they are one of the largest denominations out there!

Dang the devil made me say largest, I meant smallest.

You could have said, "as large or as small as God says it is", for accuracy.

 

[someguy14]

Never heard of 'em. As a whole, Christianity's history is littered with... well, not peace. lol.

A wall provides warmth through the winter. Running ones head directly into that wall provides pain.

 

[someguy14]

If seeking for peace, I think that you can just throw religion out of the calculations.

Actually, just throw everything else too. Humans are naturally opportunistic and violence is just one of the languages we use to send a message or to gain something. We are just war-mongerers who will end up corrupting all idealogies.

Wickedness, stealing, killing and destorying are not welcome, regardless of belief or disbelief, when it comes down to peace. There is time for all things, but God offers a better way. God has promised that He will balance the scales and repay each. Cast all your care upon Him, for He careth for you. Trust that He will do it, and trust in it when you witness it happen.