Hating on Chickfila...Why??

[revrobor]

Cathy wouldn't have any money to commit to hate groups were it not for the consumer base that supports Chick-Fil-A, and thereby affords the company to achieve gross profits so as to net income.

Once it passes from the consumer it is that company's money to do with as it pleases. You can bet the majority of its customers are not homosexuals.

Secondly, Christians do not have a right to command any community of citizens in this country to be judged and denied their citizen civil rights by law, due to the tenets of Christianity judging them as sinners and thus declaring them to be unqualified to be free and equal as people.

Christians do not judge the homosexuals God does. Read your Bible: 1Cor. 6: 9,10, Rom. 1:26,27, 1Tim. 1:10. Lev. 18: 22, 29, 30.

This is not a Christian country.
Freedom isn't dispensed through permission of the Christian faith. America is a free Democratic Republic. Where freedom of religion and freedom from religion is the first inalienable guarantee.

No one has to tolerate the pursuit of hate filled zealots who seek to command the secular legislative process so that it be made to comport with enforcement of religious tenets that decree one community of citizens are worthy of being denied civil rights equality because that community of persons are denounced as sinners by the scripture that is particular to that
faith.

Your constant use of the word "hate" has become quite humorous and indicates you really don't have a valid argument.

This isn't a Theocratic Dictatorship. It's America!
That was founded so as to escape the former authority implied by a Theocratic Dictatorship that united as crown and church.

Jesus condemned bigotry and prejudice. Christ came to save the world from the sin that is exampled by sacrilegious elitist politics and prejudice, inequity, hatred and segregation.

The anti-Christ agenda of Satanic hate groups clad in the transparent falsehood of false xtian values slandering God in calling him their ally and their prejudice as the lords work, have been thwarted before in this country's history. When slaves were freed and women were made equal to men by law, rather than forced to be second class citizens because the Bible said it was righteous.

And history shall repeat itself with a new victory as Satan is once again defeated in his earthly agenda. And the army of the anti-Christ is beaten back once again.

What a Hell it must be for those who hate everyone but their kind of people, to have to live in an eclectic nation where all people are free to be equal in the sight of any God they choose, or choose not.

You claim to be a Christian seeker but it's obvious whatever you are seeking it's not the truth.

 

[Trogool]

You claim to be a Christian seeker but it's obvious whatever you are seeking it's not the truth.

Your Christian love for your neighbor is just astounding.

 

[Albion]

Your Christian love for your neighbor is just astounding.

I think you've got the players reversed in this event. He was OPPOSED to the practice of character assassination, or as the Bible terms it, bearing false witness.

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

Persecution? Does anyone know what Christian persecution really is?
I'm thinking of a Christian in Iran that may loose his head for preaching scripture,

Actually, Iran, is a poor choice for instances of Christian persecution. The Christians there are quite content and oftentimes receive govt protections when they are going to do something that might stir the crowd. Same thing for practicing Jews in Iran. The have freedom to worship or to build synogogues where they wish pending public approval.

The Iran govt is actually quite fair to the non islamists. I watched one documentary in which nearly 20K Israeli Jews fled Israel to Iran, and received govt protection and shelter, and were the local synogogues where they worshiped were given state funds for expansion. PR move probably, but they were very helpful in the transition.

According to the documentary, there are more than 100K Christians of different denominations living throughout Iran, and now nearly 50K Jews since that mass immigration.

But yeah...as to your point.......the homo boycott of chikfila is NOT persecution, but the sudden pulling of the permits for expansion directly after the "statement" does tend to look like duck and quack like a duck. Just don't see those feathers yet. Let's wait this out a few months and see if those govt employees, mayors, alderman, councilmen, etc realize the laws they are breaking by pulling those permits.

 

[revrobor]

I think you've got the players reversed in this event. He was OPPOSED to the practice of character assassination, or as the Bible terms it, bearing false witness.

Just so we understand each other, I have no trouble loving our homosexual friends but I am opposed to the homosexual lifestyle (homosexual sex) because God is opposed to it.

 

[Lovely Lane]

Actually, Iran, is a poor choice for instances of Christian persecution. The Christians there are quite content and oftentimes receive govt protections when they are going to do something that might stir the crowd. Same thing for practicing Jews in Iran. The have freedom to worship or to build synogogues where they wish pending public approval.

The Iran govt is actually quite fair to the non islamists. I watched one documentary in which nearly 20K Israeli Jews fled Israel to Iran, and received govt protection and shelter, and were the local synogogues where they worshiped were given state funds for expansion. PR move probably, but they were very helpful in the transition.

According to the documentary, there are more than 100K Christians of different denominations living throughout Iran, and now nearly 50K Jews since that mass immigration.

thanks for the information/correction.

But yeah...as to your point.......the homo boycott of chikfila is NOT persecution, but the sudden pulling of the permits for expansion directly after the "statement" does tend to look like duck and quack like a duck. Just don't see those feathers yet. Let's wait this out a few months and see if those govt employees, mayors, alderman, councilmen, etc realize the laws they are breaking by pulling those permits.

If that is what the politicians are doing or will do, a well greased formal redress is available in court. The boycott as I understand was over Cathy's speech, the politicians remarks just added aggregate to the mix in the wall of SSM.
Both were wrong.

 

[Lovely Lane]

Just so we understand each other, I have no trouble loving our homosexual friends but I am opposed to the homosexual lifestyle (homosexual sex) because God is opposed to it.

I have the same thought Rev, however, I do my best to look at the person and character without imagining of what is in the bedroom. If no witnesses come forward and make a formal charge of homosexual act then there is no case, and we know that God knows and will deal with it if applicable.

I question the character of Christians who publicly speak ill of the LGBT types and any other human being, foreign or domestic.

 

[Amber Bird]

You claim to be a Christian seeker but it's obvious whatever you are seeking it's not the truth.

If truth in your world is bigotry, discrimination and prejudice in the name of Jesus, it is not I who is living the lie.

 

[Amber Bird]

I think you've got the players reversed in this event. He was OPPOSED to the practice of character assassination, or as the Bible terms it, bearing false witness.

It's interesting that the interpretation is in the eye of the beholder in this case. Because it appears that in truth he is invested in character assassination and bearing false witness against the message of Christ.

Then again, minions must confer and align in order to carry forth their ungodly mission. So perhaps that's it.

 

[revrobor]

If truth in your world is bigotry, discrimination and prejudice in the name of Jesus, it is not I who is living the lie.

I hold the same opinion as God regarding homosexual sex. Are you saying God is bigoted, discriminates and is prejudiced? Read your Bible to see what God has to say about homosexual sex: 1Cor. 6: 9,10; Rom 1: 26,27; 1 Tim. 1:10; Lev. 18: 22, 29, 30.

 

[cleanelvis]

I hope you guys don’t mind me jumping into this conversation. I’m very interested in the Rev’s perspective.

REV: Do you feel as strongly about the role of women in the church as you do about homosexuality? 1cor 13:34-35, 1tim 2:8-15 What about hats? 1cor 11:3-9 Why or why not?

Do you read Galatians 3:28 as literally as your verses on homosexuality? "There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus."

What about James 2:10? If anyone has broken one law they have broken them all. Do you truly believe you are just as guilty of homosexuality as everybody else?

And in Matthew 19 when JESUS COMMANDS ‘Love your neighbor as yourself’ is that literal too? Because you don’t appear to appreciate others pointing out a sin of Judging others...

Also, this is just a tip… I wouldn’t use Leviticus for your argument. You may not realize this, but there a bunch of commandments that you don’t follow in Leviticus. Examples:
I. Laws on sacrifice (1:1–7:38)
A. Instructions for the laity on bringing offerings (1:1–6:7)
1–5. The types of offering: burnt, cereal, peace, purification, reparation (or sin) offerings (ch. 1–5)
B. Instructions for the priests (6:1–7:38)
1–6. The various offerings, with the addition of the priests' cereal offering (6:1–7:36)
7. Summary (7:37–38)
II. Institution of the priesthood (8:1–10:20)
A. Ordination of Aaron and his sons (ch. 8)
B. Aaron makes the first sacrifices (ch. 9)
C. Judgement on Nadab and Abihu (ch. 10)
III. Uncleanliness and its treatment (11:1–16:24)
A. Unclean animals (ch. 11)
B. Uncleanness caused by childbirth (ch. 12)
C. Unclean diseases (ch. 13)
D. Cleansing of diseases (ch. 14)
E. Unclean discharges (ch. 15)
F. Purification of the tabernacle from uncleanness (ch. 16)
IV. Prescriptions for practical holiness (the Holiness Code (chs. 17–26)
A. Sacrifice and food (ch. 17)
B. Sexual behaviour (ch. 18)
C. Neighbourliness (ch.19)
D. Grave crimes (ch. 20)
E. Rules for priests (ch. 21)
F. Rules for eating sacrifices (ch. 22)
G. Festivals (ch.23)
H. Rules for the tabernacle (ch. 24:1–9)
I. Blasphemy (ch. 24:10–23)
J. Sabbatical and Jubilee years (ch. 25)
K. Exhortation to obey the law: blessing and curse (ch. 26)

Of course if you do own slaves, regularly sacrifice animals, or have recently put your neighbor to death for mowing his lawn on the sabbath… I stand corrected.

 

[revrobor]

I hope you guys don’t mind me jumping into this conversation. I’m very interested in the Rev’s perspective.

REV: Do you feel as strongly about the role of women in the church as you do about homosexuality? 1cor 13:34-35, 1tim 2:8-15 What about hats? 1cor 11:3-9 Why or why not?

There is no 34-35 in 1 Cor. 1Tim. 2: 8-15 are Paul's opinions not commandments from God. I do agree however that women should dress modestly and should not teach men. Teaching women and children is OK as far as I'm concerned. In 1Cor. 11 I agree with verses 3 & 8. The head covering thing is Paul's opinion not Godly commands and is probably based on tradition or the law he was raised under.

Do you read Galatians 3:28 as literally as your verses on homosexuality? "There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus."

Paul is referring to our relationship with God under Jesus and that we are not judged by our nationality or position in society.

What about James 2:10? If anyone has broken one law they have broken them all. Do you truly believe you are just as guilty of homosexuality as everybody else?

We are not under the law.

And in Matthew 19 when JESUS COMMANDS ‘Love your neighbor as yourself’ is that literal too? Because you don’t appear to appreciate others pointing out a sin of Judging others...

Of course it's literal. Do you understand Biblical love. It's a love you do not necessarily feel. People often confuse this with romantic love.

Also, this is just a tip… I wouldn’t use Leviticus for your argument. You may not realize this, but there a bunch of commandments that you don’t follow in Leviticus. Examples:
I. Laws on sacrifice (1:1–7:38)
A. Instructions for the laity on bringing offerings (1:1–6:7)
1–5. The types of offering: burnt, cereal, peace, purification, reparation (or sin) offerings (ch. 1–5)
B. Instructions for the priests (6:1–7:38)
1–6. The various offerings, with the addition of the priests' cereal offering (6:1–7:36)
7. Summary (7:37–38)
II. Institution of the priesthood (8:1–10:20)
A. Ordination of Aaron and his sons (ch. 8)
B. Aaron makes the first sacrifices (ch. 9)
C. Judgement on Nadab and Abihu (ch. 10)
III. Uncleanliness and its treatment (11:1–16:24)
A. Unclean animals (ch. 11)
B. Uncleanness caused by childbirth (ch. 12)
C. Unclean diseases (ch. 13)
D. Cleansing of diseases (ch. 14)
E. Unclean discharges (ch. 15)
F. Purification of the tabernacle from uncleanness (ch. 16)
IV. Prescriptions for practical holiness (the Holiness Code (chs. 17–26)
A. Sacrifice and food (ch. 17)
B. Sexual behaviour (ch. 18)
C. Neighbourliness (ch.19)
D. Grave crimes (ch. 20)
E. Rules for priests (ch. 21)
F. Rules for eating sacrifices (ch. 22)
G. Festivals (ch.23)
H. Rules for the tabernacle (ch. 24:1–9)
I. Blasphemy (ch. 24:10–23)
J. Sabbatical and Jubilee years (ch. 25)
K. Exhortation to obey the law: blessing and curse (ch. 26)

Of course if you do own slaves, regularly sacrifice animals, or have recently put your neighbor to death for mowing his lawn on the sabbath… I stand corrected.

As I said, we are no longer under the law, we are under grace. You seem to be wanting to say that since that since we don't keep the Old Testament law them we don't need to obey God's warning about homosexual sex and that is at best a great disservice to homosexuals.

 

[Amber Bird]

I hold the same opinion as God regarding homosexual sex. Are you saying God is bigoted, discriminates and is prejudiced? Read your Bible to see what God has to say about homosexual sex: 1Cor. 6: 9,10; Rom 1: 26,27; 1 Tim. 1:10; Lev. 18: 22, 29, 30.

No. But tragically it appears you are.

Timothy, Corinthians and Romans are all letters written by Paul to various churches. They are not scriptures written by God. Ministers know this.

And Leviticus being under the Law of Moses, does not apply in the Christian doctrine. Besides that there is an issue of shrine prostitution being that what Leviticus 18 is referring to. Not homosexuality.

And Christians who read their New Testament know they are not under the law of Moses. God gave the law to Moses and the Jewish nation.



"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Romans 6:14.


Christians are ”dead to the law." Romans 7:4.


"If ye be led by the Spirit, ye are not under the law" Galatians 5:18.


Christians are "delivered from the law." Romans 7:6.


"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster “ [the law]. Galatians 3:24-25.


For Christians, the Law is "that which is done away." II Corinthians 3:11.


For Christians, the Law is "that which is abolished." II Corinthians 3:13.


For Christians, Jesus, on the Cross, was "blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us." Colossians 2:14.


For Christians, the Law is taken "out of the way" and nailed "to his cross." Colossians 2:14.


"When God speaks of a new [covenant or agreement], He makes the first one obsolete (out of use). And what is obsolete (out of use and annulled because of age) is ripe for disappearance and to be dispensed with altogether." Hebrews 8:13, The Amplified Version


"And after that he said, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. Thus he put an end to the first in order to establish the second." Hebrews 10:9, Lamsa Translation



THE TRUTH ABOUT LEVITICUS AND HOMOSEXUALITY - YouTube

 

[cleanelvis]

This is good dialogue! Let me figure out what I meant with the 1cor verses and I’ll be back.

Oh, and Amberbird, apparently we all agree that we are not under OT law. I guess we just got confused cause the Rev used some obscure verse from Leviticus, but now he agrees that it’s irrelevant.

 

[Amber Bird]

This is good dialogue! Let me figure out what I meant with the 1cor verses and I’ll be back.

Oh, and Amberbird, apparently we all agree that we are not under OT law. I guess we just got confused cause the Rev used some obscure verse from Leviticus, but now he agrees that it’s irrelevant.

Indeed. It is a start to better understandings.

 

[cleanelvis]

Alright Rev, so I really mean 1cor 14-34-35. Basically says a woman should be silent.

So… You have the potential to answer a question that has been bugging me for years…

If the bible says “SILENT” how do you conclude that teaching women & children is okay?

How do you know that 1tim 2:8 is “Paul’s Opinions” and also know 1tim 1:10 is a commandment from God?

Why are you certain that the pronouns used in Rom 1:26-27 are to be taken literally but the pronouns used in Gal 3:28 just mean “nationality or position in society”?

I’m pretty sure I understand “biblical love” as much as any mortal can. I know it doesn’t mean “romantic” love, but it could mean “intimately”. I just know, it means to love others as I want to be loved/Jesus loves me. Which also means that I”d be mortified if people who knew me said “I love Elvis, … I just don’t agree with her lifestyle”.

 

[revrobor]

Alright Rev, so I really mean 1cor 14-34-35. Basically says a woman should be silent.

So… You have the potential to answer a question that has been bugging me for years…

If the bible says “SILENT” how do you conclude that teaching women & children is okay?

How do you know that 1tim 2:8 is “Paul’s Opinions” and also know 1tim 1:10 is a commandment from God?

Why are you certain that the pronouns used in Rom 1:26-27 are to be taken literally but the pronouns used in Gal 3:28 just mean “nationality or position in society”?

I’m pretty sure I understand “biblical love” as much as any mortal can. I know it doesn’t mean “romantic” love, but it could mean “intimately”. I just know, it means to love others as I want to be loved/Jesus loves me. Which also means that I”d be mortified if people who knew me said “I love Elvis, … I just don’t agree with her lifestyle”.

First of all if one is a language expert with a tendency to dissect what is written in the Bible we cannot lose site of the fact that the Holy Spirit is the actual interpreter and we cannot rely totally on our human wisdom. I do not have a college degree but have been amazed at the work the Holy Spirit has done in and for me.

As to Paul's remark about women keeping silent I believe it is based on what he experienced in Jewish worship services where the men did everything and the women sat silently together mostly as observers. I don't believe the Lord is saying women cannot speak in churches today although you may find that in synagogs the service is pretty much the same as it was in Paul's day.

As to the rest of your questions I have to defer to the Holy Spirit. Remember, the Bible is often called the "Living Word" for good reason. That is because God will interpret it and will often cause a verse to mean different things to different people depending on what the reader needs (here's where the "language experts" will jump in and scream "No way" but that their loss in attempting to interpret according to their human knowledge).

 

[cleanelvis]

Rev, come on dude that’s not a real answer. And the rant begins...

As far as the Holy Spirit goes, I don’t like him/her. My brain is screaming and the “holy spirit” is laughing at me ...because I don’t get it. I realize I’m stuck with earthling-critical-thought-restrictions. I feel like Johan, but I have a gun So what? I’m just supposed to change my entire life …


don’t get me wrong, bro. I understand that I’ve received a gift that I don’t deserve. But it’s driving me crazy there’s nothing I can do to deserve it?! or even try to repay the debt?! Then why me? Yeah and God thinks it’s “cute”

And there’s all you little humans with your opinions but the second someone WANTS TO BELIEVE YOU and asks for your thought process all you can say “it’s up to the holy spirit”

the rant ends… sorry

 

[revrobor]

Rev, come on dude that’s not a real answer. And the rant begins...

As far as the Holy Spirit goes, I don’t like him/her. My brain is screaming and the “holy spirit” is laughing at me ...because I don’t get it. I realize I’m stuck with earthling-critical-thought-restrictions. I feel like Johan, but I have a gun So what? I’m just supposed to change my entire life …


don’t get me wrong, bro. I understand that I’ve received a gift that I don’t deserve. But it’s driving me crazy there’s nothing I can do to deserve it?! or even try to repay the debt?! Then why me? Yeah and God thinks it’s “cute”

And there’s all you little humans with your opinions but the second someone WANTS TO BELIEVE YOU and asks for your thought process all you can say “it’s up to the holy spirit”

the rant ends… sorry

Rant on sister. Your problem is you are trying to humanly analyze our Heavenly Father in all His forms and you will never figure Him out. Our relationship with God is a "faith based" relationship. But until you recognize that you are going to be "kicking against the bricks". My thought process is this: I look to God to answer all my questions about life, about death, about spiritual matters, about what the Bible says. If I don't understand a thing I don't let it bother me because I know He loves me and has the best in mind for me. I also know He has left me free to screw things up if I choose to and I have done that in the past. Thankfully He loves me and does not hold those things against me.

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

What about James 2:10? If anyone has broken one law they have broken them all. Do you truly believe you are just as guilty of homosexuality as everybody else?

Sorry for jumping in at your post addressed to brother Bob, but I'd just like to say what the Holy Spirit has lead ME to understand irt the above.

YES. i am just as guilty of homosexuality as i am of murder. i am just as guilty of covetous as i am of not keeping the Sabbath Holy. i am just as guilty of adultery as i am of theft. i am just as guilty of having false gods as i am of not honoring my parents.

But by one act, by grace of Jesus Christ, and sacrifice by God the Father, the guilt of my sin if washed away by faith, that my repentance is accepted as my Father has promised.

Being dependent on this flesh guarantees I will fall again. However, each time I fall, as a member of His flock, I know my Shepherd will pull me from the pit.

How does the Shepherd know though that i am fallen into the pit though? I have found our Shepherd, our Good Shepherd listens for our voice, our cry of repentance. And always when we stray near the pit, our Shepherd watches and waits for us to call out again and again.

As many times I repent and as many times I call out......In those times i am heard.
But if I refuse to call out, refuse to repent, will my Shepherd come............how will He hear me?

I think my point is that unless we cry out for repentance, whichever sin we have committed, convicts us of all. Our Shepherd listens..........are we calling?