What is this thing called socialism?

[benedictaoo]

You know what they say those who forget the past (The true purpose of the Nazi rule) are doomed to repeat it. Anyway that is my conspiracy theory.

At the risk of sounding like a complete crazy person... I think we are repeating it. We aren't sacrificing Jews for a political cause but we are sacrificing.

 

[MoreCoffee]

We have elements of both. So what if its not *the* definition... it doesn't have to be.

I long been saying that these parties are on the same team... the goal is for the evil powers that be to control us in all things accept for our morals, they could care less about those. They want our money, not our God.

I think that they may want more than mere money though they may not know it. The scriptures warn us in these words,

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak. (Ephesians 6:10-20)​

PS: for those who may be a little curious, the quotes are from the KJV and I've been using it - despite its faults and its obscurity - because it is so well known and so widely read and because our separated brethren can read it without feeling like they might be tricked by some sneaky Catholic version

 

[Erose]

We're not screwed but some are quite unaware of the meaning of words. It is easy to remedy ignorance by education. Take up a dictionary of political philosophy and read what 'socialism' and 'communism' mean. For a working definition of socialism see the original post, for a working definition of communism I offer the following

Communism (from Latin communis - common, universal) is a revolutionary socialist movement to create a classless, moneyless, and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production, as well as a social, political and economic ideology that aims at the establishment of this social order. This movement, in its Marxist-Leninist interpretations, significantly influenced the history of the 20th century, which saw intense rivalry between the "socialist world" (socialist states ruled by communist parties) and the "western world" (countries with capitalist economies).

Marxist theory holds that pure communism or full communism is a specific stage of historical development that inevitably emerges from the development of the productive forces that leads to a superabundance of material wealth, allowing for distribution based on need and social relations based on freely associated individuals. The exact definition of communism varies, and it is often mistakenly, in general political discourse, used interchangeably with socialism; however, Marxist theory contends that socialism is just a transitional stage on the road to communism. Leninism adds to Marxism the notion of a vanguard party to lead the proletarian revolution and to secure all political power after the revolution for the working class, for the development of universal class consciousness and worker participation, in a transitional stage between capitalism and socialism.
​

See Communism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ok so now that you have gained some insight from Wiki on Communism, what is the difference between the two on the economic level?

 

[benedictaoo]

and on the economic level is all the evil men in high places care about. This ain't your momma's Communism.

 

[Erose]

At the risk of sounding like a complete crazy person... I think we are repeating it. We aren't sacrificing Jews for a political cause but we are sacrificing.

Quite honestly the current enlightened 'Western' society have done a very good job of outdoing both the Nazi's and Communists when it comes to killing our own.

 

[MoreCoffee]

and on the economic level is all the evil men in high places care about. This ain't your momma's Communism.

I am sorry, perhaps 'This ain't your momma's Communism.' is a colloquialism with which I am unfamiliar, but reading it as an informal reference to home-spun ideas about communism I don't quite see the link you are making.

 

[benedictaoo]

I think that they may want more than mere money though they may not know it. The scriptures warn us in these words,

I do not disagree... its that the Evil One himself has learned from his little stint in Russia.

He allows us to be free and he promotes secularism now which is a fancy word for freedom and it is through this he polarizes us.

the government will not care what immoral laws we make... they want our money. In the name of freedom we have sold our souls.

 

[benedictaoo]

Quite honestly the current enlightened 'Western' society have done a very good job of outdoing both the Nazi's and Communists when it comes to killing our own.

well I had something else in mind, something much more specific. Something I think is happening right in front of us.

 

[benedictaoo]

I am sorry, perhaps 'This ain't your momma's Communism.' is a colloquialism with which I am unfamiliar, but reading it as an informal reference to home-spun ideas about communism I don't quite see the link you are making.

Why does Communism have to appear and reappear in the same exact form each time?

It can change certain elements, add in or take out and reinvent itself. Control of the people, control of the money, oppression and sin are what its essence is.

I mean if it appeared exactly as it first did, who'd fall for it? It has to come back as something else.

Just like the devil, he does not come at us with the horns and pitch fork... he is cunning, he comes at us at first as our friend. Just like any and all kinds of Communism.

 

[AMDG]

I believe More Coffee wanted posts on socialism. It is, and on capitalism and on distributionism too:

What Economic System Does Catholicism Promote? | The Lewis Crusade

 

[Virgil the Roman]

Why does Communism have to appear and reappear in the same exact form each time?

It can change certain elements, add in or take out and reinvent itself. Control of the people, control of the money, oppression and sin are what its essence is.

I mean if it appeared exactly as it first did, who'd fall for it? It has to come back as something else.

Just like the devil, he does not come at us with the horns and pitch fork... he is cunning, he comes at us at first as our friend. Just like any and all kinds of Communism.

Bingo.

You've got it, Bene!

 

[MoreCoffee]

Why does Communism have to appear and reappear in the same exact form each time?

It can change certain elements, add in or take out and reinvent itself. Control of the people, control of the money, oppression and sin are what its essence is.

I mean if it appeared exactly as it first did, who'd fall for it? It has to come back as something else.

Just like the devil, he does not come at us with the horns and pitch fork... he is cunning, he comes at us at first as our friend. Just like any and all kinds of Communism.

Communism doesn't need to reappear in the same form, but the few times it has appeared it has become a one party state with varying degrees of malevolence.

Socialism has taken on many forms and very few have been one party states.

The USA has an opportunity to adopt some of the good things that a healthy economy can give and an opportunity to take up some of the measures that ancient Israel had which prevented wealth from being monopolised by a few families or a few groups (companies).

In ancient Israel the means of wealth production was mainly the land and one's family or tribe. Land could not be permanently lost to a family. It could be sold for a period but it had , always, to be returned, after a time, to the family that originally owned it. Analogous laws could be used in our modern economies but it would take some thought to work out the particulars.

I suspect, however, that in the mean time national health schemes, national education, military, roads and so on are the closest we have got.

 

[MikeK]

I think the Nazi rule has been established by former Nazis and pushed by those who wish everyone to forget what happened in WWII. Granted some take it overboard but if the shoe fits...

You know what they say those who forget the past (The true purpose of the Nazi rule) are doomed to repeat it. Anyway that is my conspiracy theory.

Yeah, I kinda had you pegged for the conspiracy theory believing type. Godwin is a secret Nazi. Shhhh....

 

[Erose]

Yeah, I kinda had you pegged for the conspiracy theory believing type. Godwin is a secret Nazi. Shhhh....

Hey it is a good conspiracy theory! It is better than the one about our government blowing up the Twin Towers instead of terrorist. Its more believable.

 

[Erose]

Communism doesn't need to reappear in the same form, but the few times it has appeared it has become a one party state with varying degrees of malevolence.

Socialism has taken on many forms and very few have been one party states.

The USA has an opportunity to adopt some of the good things that a healthy economy can give and an opportunity to take up some of the measures that ancient Israel had which prevented wealth from being monopolised by a few families or a few groups (companies).

In ancient Israel the means of wealth production was mainly the land and one's family or tribe. Land could not be permanently lost to a family. It could be sold for a period but it had , always, to be returned, after a time, to the family that originally owned it. Analogous laws could be used in our modern economies but it would take some thought to work out the particulars.

I suspect, however, that in the mean time national health schemes, national education, military, roads and so on are the closest we have got.

It has been debated that the reason why we are in the condition we are in is due to the adoption of socialistic ideas.

This is one point that few don't realize is that the USA is not a pure capitalistic society. We are also one of those shades of gray.

Perfect example is found in many urban areas where one is forced to pay taxes on the property they are suppose to own, even if the property has already payed for. Property taxes implies that the concept of private property does not exist in that location. Why because if you don't pay the property tax the government can seize your property. Thank God I live in an urban area, where at least I have a simulance that my property belongs to me.

 

[benedictaoo]

I believe More Coffee wanted posts on socialism. It is, and on capitalism and on distributionism too:

Honey, its all the same thing at the end of the day....

 

[benedictaoo]

It has been debated that the reason why we are in the condition we are in is due to the adoption of socialistic ideas.

This is one point that few don't realize is that the USA is not a pure capitalistic society. We are also one of those shades of gray.

Perfect example is found in many urban areas where one is forced to pay taxes on the property they are suppose to own, even if the property has already payed for. Property taxes implies that the concept of private property does not exist in that location. Why because if you don't pay the property tax the government can seize your property. Thank God I live in an urban area, where at least I have a simulance that my property belongs to me.

Fifty Shades of Grey... sorry, couldn't resist.

yeah, people are really nuts if they think the government is on the up and up... when in history as it ever been in any continent?

 

[benedictaoo]

Communism doesn't need to reappear in the same form, but the few times it has appeared it has become a one party state with varying degrees of malevolence.

Socialism has taken on many forms and very few have been one party states.

The USA has an opportunity to adopt some of the good things that a healthy economy can give and an opportunity to take up some of the measures that ancient Israel had which prevented wealth from being monopolised by a few families or a few groups (companies).

In ancient Israel the means of wealth production was mainly the land and one's family or tribe. Land could not be permanently lost to a family. It could be sold for a period but it had , always, to be returned, after a time, to the family that originally owned it. Analogous laws could be used in our modern economies but it would take some thought to work out the particulars.

I suspect, however, that in the mean time national health schemes, national education, military, roads and so on are the closest we have got.

So? You act like these con artists have some set of rules they must follow in order to do evil?

They'll do what ever works, what ever devices the people... they'll come back as Micky Mouse if they have to... what ever it takes to gain our trust. They're running a con game.
.
You know there is a anti Christ commeth... There are many fore runners that will come before. They're will always be a constant battle of good and evil... what makes y'all think this was put behind us at the end of WWll? Why do y'all think that? They devil has not given up...

 

[Leap]

Distributism would work just fine. It will promote, grow and encourage all those institutions you mentioned earlier and it's Church friendly, Church approved.

Simply put, its a world where, you sell the hammer and i'll sell the nails and we work for ourselves and its a family business and we do not have to commute or leave our families for lengths of time or have the government all up in our beeswax. Its kinda like the Vietnamese do when they come here, they all work in the family business.

Distributism would indeed work...as long as it also abandoned consumerism. If it kept the consumerist attitude, life would swiftly head off in an anti-tradition/faith/institution direction once more. So those family businesses need to not operate on a consumerist principle, but sadly virtually all would do so in order to survive (ie: have enough constant income to make ends meet). Even under a distributist system, it would still be true that "Homo mercator vix aut numquam potest Deo placere".

The alternative to consumerism is custodianship, but that does not support specialist family business (because they would need a constant turnover to buy the things that that are not producing whilst busy with their specialisation). Instead it requires families each meeting their needs on the land that is theirs, and then trading only the surplus

 

[MoreCoffee]

In the old testament, Leap, the Law did not require each family to produce all their needs and trade only the surplus. Trading what your family produced with other families for what they produced was expected. The Levites had no inherited land so they depended on others for all of their needs and obviously traded what they had - through gifts and offerings made in the temple (or other places of worship) - for what they needed.