the Apostle Paul kept the Torah!

LittleLambofJesus

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Frogster

Galatians is the best!
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nope, peter, paul, barnabas, and the rest of the jews were living as gentiles in antioch..

love the amplified...

gal 4:12 Brethren, I beg of you, become as I am [free from the bondage of Jewish ritualism and ordinances], for I also have become as you are [[e]a Gentile]. You did me no wrong [[f]in the days when I first came to you; do not do it now].
 
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Standing Up

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But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before [them] all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
We [who are] Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

So, Paul did not keep Torah, but he did understand its spiritual principles.

But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.
 
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tzadik

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But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before [them] all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
We [who are] Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

So, Paul did not keep Torah, but he did understand its spiritual principles.

But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

Gotta love those amplified English Bibles.
You can get them to say pretty much anything you want :)

But I do agree, NO ONE is justified by works of the law.

The Law was not given to bring redemption.
It was given to give Instruction.
Then and now :thumbsup:
 
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Standing Up

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Gotta love those amplified English Bibles.
You can get them to say pretty much anything you want :)

But I do agree, NO ONE is justified by works of the law.

The Law was not given to bring redemption.
It was given to give Instruction.
Then and now :thumbsup:

That was KJV.

Yes, given for instruction (Rom 3 IIRC). Recall the allegory of Hagar (Sinai) and Sarah (children of promise, Zion).
 
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Standing Up

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This is sillly: whoever dies in the Lord, keeps Torah.

It's when you keep Torah and you can't live with what that means, that there is a problem.

You mean we keep it because Christ did and we're in Him.

You don't mean we keep the 613 Laws. Right?
 
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Frogster

Galatians is the best!
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Gotta love those amplified English Bibles.
You can get them to say pretty much anything you want :)

But I do agree, NO ONE is justified by works of the law.

The Law was not given to bring redemption.
It was given to give Instruction.
Then and now :thumbsup:

that is what it means in the amplified..

ok, what did paul mean when he said he became as them in 4:12?
 
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Frogster

Galatians is the best!
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Gotta love those amplified English Bibles.
You can get them to say pretty much anything you want :)

But I do agree, NO ONE is justified by works of the law.

The Law was not given to bring redemption.
It was given to give Instruction.
Then and now :thumbsup:

but galatians is actually more about sanctification..No?

weren't the judaizers trying to get, THE ALREADY JUSTIFIED ones to live as jews in their future?

would they just be jews for just a day if snipped?

try to understand how paul worked out his argument around 3:3, perfected, maturing, by law.
 
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tzadik

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That was KJV.

Yes, given for instruction (Rom 3 IIRC). Recall the allegory of Hagar (Sinai) and Sarah (children of promise, Zion).

Not sure what you mean with the allegory but...do you believe that God's Torah no longer serves as instruction, correction, reproof and training in righteousness so that we may be adequate unto good works before God?
 
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tzadik

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but galatians is actually more about sanctification..No?

weren't the judaizers trying to get, THE ALREADY JUSTIFIED ones to live as jews in their future?

would they just be jews for just a day if snipped?

try to understand how paul worked out his argument around 3:3, perfected, maturing, by law.

Froggy, if you were to be honest with yourself and the text you would agree that EVERY time Paul addressed the judaizers or spoke "against the law" it was in reference to those who MISUSED the Law of God.

[It was always, "don't think you can be saved by the law" "don't think that you are going to be justified by works of the law" "don't think that circumcising is going to do anything for your salvation" "don't think that you are meriting your redemption and salvation by obeying any of the commandments".]

The Holy Law of God is good, but ONLY to those who use it lawfully!
When you read Psalm 119, what do you see?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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.....
So, Paul did not keep Torah, but he did understand its spiritual principles.

But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.
Gotta love those amplified English Bibles.
You can get them to say pretty much anything you want :)

But I do agree, NO ONE is justified by works of the law.
That was KJV.

Yes, given for instruction (Rom 3 IIRC).......
:)
The NASB doesn't use brackets in those verses

Search for 'Genesis 1:1' in the version

NASB) 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter;
And his praise is not from men, but from God.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7611484-100/#post59129395
The letter kills.

2 Corinthians 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter, but of the Spirit;
For the letter kills
, but the Spirit gives life.
 
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Standing Up

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Not sure what you mean with the allegory but...do you believe that God's Torah no longer serves as instruction, correction, reproof and training in righteousness so that we may be adequate unto good works before God?

Paul: For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

In what sense? One thing taught was spiritual (Zion-children of promise) vs (Sinai-children of bondage).

We know per Galatians that Peter "fell back" into bondage when those from James son of Joseph/Mary came to town. Paul set him straight. (Same issue--spiritual or physical).

So, yes, written for our learning, just be careful to learn what is to be properly learned.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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That was KJV.

Yes, given for instruction (Rom 3 IIRC). Recall the allegory of Hagar (Sinai) and Sarah (children of promise, Zion).
:)

Revelation 14:1 shows the Lamb on Mt Zion, not Mt Sinai
4chsmu1.gif



Hebrews 12:22 But ye came to Mount Zion, and to a city of the living God, to the heavenly Jerusalem and to myriads of messengers,

Revelation 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion,
and with Him one hundred [and] forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads.

Gala 4:25 For the Hagar is Mount Sinai is in the Arabia, together-elemental yet to the now Jerusalem slaving with the offspring of Her.

Reve 8:8 And the second Messenger trumpets and as-like a great Mountainto fire burning was cast into the Sea
and became the third of the Sea blood

http://www.christianforums.com/t7463574-13/#post54613209
2 Mountains
 
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weathered

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Paul was both a Jew and Gentile. When with the Jews he was Jew, when with Gentile was a Gentile. A man who strives for mastery is temperate in all things according to Paul. We can learn a lot from Paul. Are we Temperate in all things?


1Co 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible
 
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tzadik

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Paul was both a Jew and Gentile. When with the Jews he was Jew, when with Gentile was a Gentile. A man who strives for mastery is temperate in all things according to Paul. We can learn a lot from Paul. Are we Temperate in all things?

In other words...Paul was a hypocrite --according to your understanding of his "temperatism".

Question: how does one "act like a Gentile"?
 
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weathered

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In other words...Paul was a hypocrite --according to your understanding of his "temperatism".

Question: how does one "act like a Gentile"?

No, he was a wise man who could see things we don't. A hypocrite doesn't practice what he preaches, Paul preached what he practiced.
 
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weathered

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Do you believe Paul practiced Acts 24:14?

Yes he did, that's apparent and is seen in the fact that he was both a Jew and gentile. It wasn't heresy though. God never commanded Gentiles to observe what He gave the Jews, not everything anyway.

And Paul was called By God to take the Gospel to the Gentiles and teach them, he cant teach what he doesn't practice.
 
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benelchi

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In other words...Paul was a hypocrite --according to your understanding of his "temperatism".

Question: how does one "act like a Gentile"?


When I sit down and eat with Jewish or Muslim friends, I don't serve or eat pork because it is offensive to them. If they ask, I tell them I do eat pork. Paul's statement wasn't about pretending to be something he is not, it was about adapting purely cultural practices because it allowed him to have a greater influence among those to whom he was ministering. In Galatians, Paul made it very clear that requiring a Christian to observe the Law was wrong, in Corinthians he made it clear that giving up our freedoms in order to allow us to more effectively minister is preferable; in some cases giving up those freedoms could mean that we follow the Law but in other cases it may mean we do things that are against the OT Law (For example, when God gave Peter the vision about eating "unclean" food).
 
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