• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

The Flood: A Biblical Analysis

Achilles6129

Veteran
Feb 19, 2006
4,504
367
Columbus, Ohio
✟44,682.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Politics
US-Republican
This is basically an outline and analysis of the Flood as it happened in the Scriptures. I don't think that people have studied the concepts in Gen. 6-9 enough.

Firstly, I am going to claim that the Flood narrative lasts from Gen. 6:3 (contemplation of destruction) until Gen. 8:22 (final contemplation). Gen. 9 is then an appendix to the Flood narrative.

One of the most interesting things about the Flood narrative is the alternation of the terms "YHWH" (LORD) and "Elohim" (God). The alternations are thus:

1. LORD: Gen. 6:3-8 (Contemplation of destruction)
2. God: Gen. 6:9-22 (Instructions to build ark)
3. LORD: Gen. 7:1-8 (Instructions to come into ark)
4. God: Gen. 7:9-16a (Entry into ark)
5. LORD: Gen. 7:16a - 24 (Flood)
6. God: Gen. 8:1-19 (End of Flood/Recreation)
7. LORD: Gen. 8:20-21 (Contemplation of no further destruction)

Notice how the alternation between "LORD" and "God" occurs 7 times.

Another interesting thing - God speaks to Noah a total of 7 times in the Scriptures:

1) Gen. 6:13-21
2) Gen. 7:1-4
3) Gen. 8:15-17
4) Gen. 9:1-7
5) Gen. 9:8-11
6) Gen. 9:12-16
7) Gen. 9:17

Something else - when commanding Noah to build the ark, God lists 7 qualifications for the ark:

Gen. 6:14

1) Wood
2) Rooms
3) Pitch
4) Dimensions
5) Window
6) Door
7) Floors

As far as the Flood itself goes, a special Hebrew word is used for Flood, 'mabbul.' This word is used only when referring to the Flood of Gen. 6-9 in the Scriptures, so it is especially significant. 'Mabbul' sets the Flood of Gen. 6-9 apart from any other flood.

There is a clear chiastic construction concerning the Flood narrative. For example, the order of days mentioned represents a chiasm:

7 days (7:10)
40 days (7:12, 17)
150 days (7:24, 8:3)
40 days (8:6)
7 days (8:10, 12)

Thus the pattern is 7-40-150-40-7.

Several other patterns of note:

1. YHWH (7:1-5)
2. Noah (7:6-10)
3. Noah (7:11-16a)
4. YHWH (7:16b)

1. Warning (6:13)
2. Command (6:14-16)
3. Warning (6:17)
4. Command (6:18-21)

1. Entry into ark (7:6-9)
2. Flood (7:10-12)
3. Entry into ark (7:13-16)
4. Flood (7:17-24)

The word "Gabar" for "prevail":

1. Imperfect tense (7:18)
2. Perfect tense (7:19)
3. Perfect tense (7:20)
4. Imperfect tense (7:24)

Another pattern:

A) Command (7:1-4)
B) Command executed (7:5-9)
C) Flood (7:10-12)
B) Command executed (7:13-16)
D) Prevailing waters (7:17-20)
E) Everything destroyed (7:22-23)
D) Prevailing waters (7:24)

The Flood is obviously an "uncreation" narrative. This can be shown by comparing Gen. 1:2 with Gen. 8:1. In Gen. 1:2 the Spirit (ruah) of God moved upon the face of the waters. In Gen. 8:1 a wind (ruah) from God assuages the waters. God is uncreating the earth in the global flood, and then recreating it beginning with Gen. 8:1, hence the parallel to Gen. 1:2.

Theology of the Flood

As far as the theology of the Flood is concerned, basically God sees that natural man is so evil that the only solution that he has is the complete extermination of natural man. This same basic theme is repeated elsewhere in the Scriptures. In other words, the only solution, the only option that God has is the eradication of the entire human race. This has very powerful theological implications, and shows just how depraved mankind (outside of obedience to God's commands) is in God's sight.

The reason why water is used as a destructive agent is because water represents absolute divine love (God). In other words, water represents the judgment of absolute divine love. See Rev. 22:1, Jn. 7:37-38, etc., for a further illustration.

If there had been no Noah, there never would have been any 'history.' God's point is to totally wipe out his creation. Had not Noah gotten in the way, there never would have been a Roman Empire, an England, an America, etc. This again has very powerful theological implications.

So, that's a brief analysis of the Flood.
 

Achilles6129

Veteran
Feb 19, 2006
4,504
367
Columbus, Ohio
✟44,682.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Politics
US-Republican
That site has some decent facts - however, I do not agree with the documentary hypothesis (JEDP) regarding the Torah. It makes much more sense if the Torah were written by Moses (and maybe parts by Joshua) with perhaps an editorial update somewhere along the line.
 
Upvote 0

granpa

Noahide/Rationalist
Apr 23, 2007
2,518
68
California
✟3,072.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Buddhist
Marital Status
Private
That site has some decent facts - however, I do not agree with the documentary hypothesis (JEDP) regarding the Torah. It makes much more sense if the Torah were written by Moses (and maybe parts by Joshua) with perhaps an editorial update somewhere along the line.

I wrote that article.

from another thread:
this idea that the documentary hypothesis is somehow at odds with theism is a common misunderstanding that
Friedman himself talks about in the introduction to his book 'who wrote the bible'.
He says that he himself thought the same way until he finally looked into it.
Far from being at odds with theism this approach leads to greater insights into the original message of the bible
 
Upvote 0

Achilles6129

Veteran
Feb 19, 2006
4,504
367
Columbus, Ohio
✟44,682.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Politics
US-Republican
Notice how the alternation between "LORD" and "God" occurs 7 times.

Why does this happen also in genesis 1 and 2 as well? Some people think this is deceptive and they are two different beings/peoples.

Not at all. YHWH is simply a personal name; Elohim is a general name.
 
Upvote 0

PROPHECYKID

Veteran
Site Supporter
Oct 28, 2007
5,982
528
37
The isle of spice
Visit site
✟118,684.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
How's about a scientific analysis of the flood?

102 - A Universal Flood - Amazing Discoveries TV
Title: 102 - A Universal Flood
Author: Walter J. Veith
Description: Science today denies a universal flood, as it would destroy the continuity of the fossil record in the geological column. In this video, evidence for precisely such a universal phenomenon is presented with fascinating video material from modern day catastrophes on a smaller scale. The origin of the petrified forests and their flood implications are also discussed
 
Upvote 0

Achilles6129

Veteran
Feb 19, 2006
4,504
367
Columbus, Ohio
✟44,682.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Politics
US-Republican
How's about a scientific analysis of the flood?

102 - A Universal Flood - Amazing Discoveries TV
Title: 102 - A Universal Flood
Author: Walter J. Veith
Description: Science today denies a universal flood, as it would destroy the continuity of the fossil record in the geological column. In this video, evidence for precisely such a universal phenomenon is presented with fascinating video material from modern day catastrophes on a smaller scale. The origin of the petrified forests and their flood implications are also discussed

Good source. Also, numerous creationist books have been written detailing extra-Biblical evidence for the Flood. E.G., Earth's Catastrophic Past, by Andrew Snelling, is a great book. Faith, Form, and Time, by Kurt Wise, is also a good book.
 
Upvote 0

PROPHECYKID

Veteran
Site Supporter
Oct 28, 2007
5,982
528
37
The isle of spice
Visit site
✟118,684.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Good source. Also, numerous creationist books have been written detailing extra-Biblical evidence for the Flood. E.G., Earth's Catastrophic Past, by Andrew Snelling, is a great book. Faith, Form, and Time, by Kurt Wise, is also a good book.

If you like those books you would like this guy..Walter Veith. He came to Christ because of science.
 
Upvote 0

KhaosTheory

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2011
542
15
✟828.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
How's about a scientific analysis of the flood?

102 - A Universal Flood - Amazing Discoveries TV
Title: 102 - A Universal Flood
Author: Walter J. Veith
Description: Science today denies a universal flood, as it would destroy the continuity of the fossil record in the geological column. In this video, evidence for precisely such a universal phenomenon is presented with fascinating video material from modern day catastrophes on a smaller scale. The origin of the petrified forests and their flood implications are also discussed

I found it odd that in that video he was using the white cliffs of Dover as evidence FOR a global flood since it so clearly refutes it...

It simply defies common sense... He admits that the cretaceous layer is largely made of chalk which is the shells from dead invertebrates, mainly coccoliths.

Supposedly these shellfish all died when the flood covered the earth... Really? that's a LOT of shellfish. There couldn't be enough shellfish on the entire planet to make such a huge layer like that! Have you seen the cliffs of Dover?

The cretaceous layer took 80 million years to form... I cannot fathom how it could be possible for such a thing to form in only a few weeks as the result of a flood...

Even if I allow my mind to forgo common sense and say it's possible that huge layer formed in a flood, you'd still expect to maybe find a few rabbit or human fossils mixed up in that layer, right?

Well we don't... ever... We do find dinosaurs and early mammals, however... But why don't we even find any modern day species in any pre-cretaceous layers anywhere in the world?

Noahs Global Flood Didn't Happen finale - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NmujSlRqXA&feature=autoplay&list=PL63C76D80E1A48E54&playnext=2
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

jilfe

Newbie
Jul 4, 2012
117
4
✟22,785.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Well we don't... ever... We do find dinosaurs and early mammals, however... But why don't we even find any modern day species in any pre-cretaceous layers anywhere in the world?

One last time:

Were you present at every paleontologist dig?
Do you honestly believe that some of the paleontologists that may have had a atheistic background, would be willing to share evidence of fossils that they know should not be there.
Do you honestly believe that they are going to NOT hide things they discover, even if it upsets there hypothetical geologic column idea?

So you know that all these things they are writing about has been personally investigated by you, to come to the conclusions you come too?

GOD is the only ONE, who is OMNIPRESENT and ALL KNOWING.

AsK HIM to show you, open your mind as well as your heart to HIM, and you will KNOW the truth.
 
Upvote 0