When Will Christ Return?

[Almighty's humble servant]

That is a good question.

Daniel 7, and Rev 11, and Revelation 12, and Revelation 13 all predicted the 1260 years of dark ages persecution to happen before the end. that has passed.

Matt 24 predicts that the Gospel will go into all the World and THEN will the end come. That is either past or right on top of passing - as the gospel ministries have covered the globe umpteen times over. I was in India and noticed that they Christian Gospel programming in both English and Hindi pretty much non-stop on some channels. So even though Christianity is no more than 1% or 2% of the population - the coverage is massive. And now with internet - the former iron-curtain countries have their own people exposed to Christian sermons, Bible studies videos etc.

In Revelation 12 - you have the 1260 years of the Dark Ages.

In Revelation 13 you have a 7 headed (symbolic) beast that is a composite of all the world empires listed (as beasts with a total of 7 heads) in Daniel 7.

That has already happened.

In Rev 13 you have another beast rising up at the end of the Dark Ages - and rising to world super power status. That has happened.

In Rev 13 that super power - starts off like a lamb. (The good guys) - but it ends up revoking every principle of its constitution and speaking instead like a dragon - before it is all over. It sets up the mark of the beast.

It has yet to do such a thing - but ...
Obama gives himself control of all communication systems in America — RT

It is getting closer to creating a foundation for it. So yes - wayyy closer than 30 years away.

Reading Matt 24 and looking for patterns. Shouldn't we be seeing some odd things as signs in the heavens if it really is this close?

Good question --

2012 Something Is Going On! - YouTube





in Christ,

Bob

Nice one Bob.
Don't know if the dark ages are indeed that which is prophesied in the Word you propose, but your speaking of how the Gospel is reaching the far corners of the earth...spot on.

 

[doright]

Mat.24;4-8 Tell Us All These Things Are The Beginning Of Sorrows.
This Is An Old English Term For Birth Pains. Rev.12;2 Travailing

The Birth Is The Rapture
Rev.12;6 The Man Child.

Then The Tribulation Start, The Anti Christ Appears And The Red Horse The Battle Of Ezek 38&39

 

[zeke37]

the man child is Jesus Christ

 

[zeke37]

Psalm2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

this is speaking of Christ, and this is what Rev2 and Rev12 are drawing from.
we can be likewise sons of God, through the Son.
so we have to decide who is referenced in Rev12....us or the Son of God

in Rev 12 it is quite obviously the Son of God,
caught up to the throne of God
and sits at the right hand of God

you see, even in Rev12, after this rod of iron catching up
we have references of Saints in heaven,
and they got there by dying, not by being raptured

and then at the chapters end, we see that Christians are indeed here, not raptured...
and it is Satan's wrath that they contend with, not God's.

 

[doright]

No The Man Child Is The Saints ,in Rev2;26&27

And( He )that Overcometh And Keepeth My Words Unto The End , To Him Will I Give Power Over The Nations.

And( He) Shall Rule Them With A Rod Of Iron: As A Vessel Of A Potter Shall They Be Broken To Shivers Even As I Received Of My Father.

This Is Jesus Saying This So He Is Not Talking About Himself.

And Jesus Was Not Caught Up At Birth, But The Raptured Saints Will Be

 

[Matariki]

So, what year range do you think Jesus Christ will return? Vote in the poll and then post your reason for your vote.

I think Christ will return in the 2030s for several reasons:

1) The 2030s will be exactly 2000 years after Christ left. God has a thing with numbers, and Christ has a 1000 year reign. It could be that Jesus Christ returns 2000 years after he ascended into heaven.

2) The timing is simply not right at this moment. We need a one world government before anything in the book of Revelation can begin happening, and it is going to take some time to set up a one world government (many legal hurdles, etc.). As soon as the one world government is in place the antichrist will appear. I think this will begin in the mid-to-late 2020s.

He will come whenever he feels like it. God's timing is not our own, and considering that many have tried and failed to have put a date on the calender for Christs arrival, that should be a sobering reminder that God has not revealed the time to us.

Mark 13:32 as Jesus states: “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

Are we more knowledgeable than the angles, or Christ?

 

[doright]

Mark 13:32 as Jesus states: “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

Are we more knowledgeable than the angles, or Christ?

AMOS 3;7 SURLY THE LORD GOD WILL DO NOTHING, BUT HE REVEALETH HIS SECRET UNTO HIS SERVANTS THE PROPHETS

SO THERE WILL BE THOSE THAT KNOW.

MAT25;6 AND AT MIDNIGHT THERE WAS A CRY MADE. BEHOLD THE BRIDEGROOM COMETH

SO SOME ONE OUTSIDE OF THE MAIN BODY OF THE CHURCH KNOWS

 

[Gnarwhal]

AMOS 3;7 SURLY THE LORD GOD WILL DO NOTHING, BUT HE REVEALETH HIS SECRET UNTO HIS SERVANTS THE PROPHETS

SO THERE WILL BE THOSE THAT KNOW.

MAT25;6 AND AT MIDNIGHT THERE WAS A CRY MADE. BEHOLD THE BRIDEGROOM COMETH

SO SOME ONE OUTSIDE OF THE MAIN BODY OF THE CHURCH KNOWS

So you actually believe that you must be outside God's holy church to receive divine revelation?

Guess what? Harold Camping believed the same thing and his folly was a very public spectacle.

Excluding yourself from the church under the delusion that God's operating elsewhere is a recipe for heresy. Believing you're on the receiving end of esoteric knowledge and isolating yourself from any source of accountability is exactly how cults are born.

I'm sure Jim Jones had similar beliefs at some point before The Peoples Temple was in full swing.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

 

[Achilles6129]

Daniel 7, and Rev 11, and Revelation 12, and Revelation 13 all predicted the 1260 years of dark ages persecution to happen before the end. that has passed.

Ok, I see 1260 days, not years. I see no reason to take the days allegorically as years, as the context does not require it.

Matt 24 predicts that the Gospel will go into all the World and THEN will the end come.

It's talking about the preaching of the two witnesses there, which hasn't happened yet.

That is either past or right on top of passing - as the gospel ministries have covered the globe umpteen times over. I was in India and noticed that they Christian Gospel programming in both English and Hindi pretty much non-stop on some channels. So even though Christianity is no more than 1% or 2% of the population - the coverage is massive. And now with internet - the former iron-curtain countries have their own people exposed to Christian sermons, Bible studies videos etc.

Remember there is also a false gospel. See Mt. 24:4-5, 2 Th. 2, 2 Tim. 4, Mt. 7:21-23, etc., etc.

In Revelation 13 you have a 7 headed (symbolic) beast that is a composite of all the world empires listed (as beasts with a total of 7 heads) in Daniel 7.

The beast has already come? I must've missed it then. Who exactly is the antichrist?

In Rev 13 that super power - starts off like a lamb. (The good guys) - but it ends up revoking every principle of its constitution and speaking instead like a dragon - before it is all over. It sets up the mark of the beast.

Right, the false prophet. Who do you think he is?


And, as a side note, we've kept this thread going for 2 years and running. Let's keep it up

 

[doright]

So you actually believe that you must be outside God's holy church to receive divine revelation?

Guess what? Harold Camping believed the same thing and his folly was a very public spectacle.

Excluding yourself from the church under the delusion that God's operating elsewhere is a recipe for heresy. Believing you're on the receiving end of esoteric knowledge and isolating yourself from any source of accountability is exactly how cults are born.

I'm sure Jim Jones had similar beliefs at some point before The Peoples Temple was in full swing.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

NO MAT 25 SAYS THAT THE ENTIRE BRIDE IS ASLEEP. SO THEREFORE IT WILL BE SOME ONE LIKE JOHN THE BAPTIST, OUT SIDE THE MAIN BODY

 

[zeke37]

No The Man Child Is The Saints ,in Rev2;26&27

well, i gave you reasons why i know the Rod of Iron is Christ.

And( He )that Overcometh And Keepeth My Words Unto The End , To Him Will I Give Power Over The Nations.

And( He) Shall Rule Them With A Rod Of Iron: As A Vessel Of A Potter Shall They Be Broken To Shivers Even As I Received Of My Father.

This Is Jesus Saying This So He Is Not Talking About Himself.

that is in Rev2...not Rev12.
in Rev12, there are Saints in heaven who got there by dying, not by being raptured.
in Rev12, there are Christians here, who both keep the commandments and have the testimony of Jesus Christ
only Christians do so, and Christians are here on earth during that time.

And Jesus Was Not Caught Up At Birth, But The Raptured Saints Will Be

well, your logic doesn't work either way.
the raptured Saints are not caught up at their birth either....
or else non of us would ever be alive and remain unto His Coming.

but the chapter does not require that being caught up to the throne of God be right at the birth,
but rather some time after it obviously.

anyway, just before the rapture, the dead in Christ come from heaven with Christ
and are raised back to life here first.
then after that, the rapture.

 

[doright]

well, i gave you reasons why i know the Rod of Iron is Christ.

that is in Rev2...not Rev12.
in Rev12, there are Saints in heaven who got there by dying, not by being raptured.
in Rev12, there are Christians here, who both keep the commandments and have the testimony of Jesus Christ
only Christians do so, and Christians are here on earth during that time.


well, your logic doesn't work either way.
the raptured Saints are not caught up at their birth either....
or else non of us would ever be alive and remain unto His Coming.

but the chapter does not require that being caught up to the throne of God be right at the birth,
but rather some time after it obviously.

anyway, just before the rapture, the dead in Christ come from heaven with Christ
and are raised back to life here first.
then after that, the rapture.

YOU ARE WRONG ON EVERY POINT
YOU CAN'T BE THAT WRONG BY YOUR SELF
SO YOU NEED TO THROW AWAY ALL THE BOOKS YOU READ
AND THEN PRAY THREW TILL YOU HEAR GOD'S VOICE, THEN ASK HIM

 

[zeke37]

YOU ARE WRONG ON EVERY POINT

well, let's see if the Bible agrees with me or you

YOU CAN'T BE THAT WRONG BY YOUR SELF
SO YOU NEED TO THROW AWAY ALL THE BOOKS YOU READ

what books? pre tribbers are the ones big on books friend.
left behind series is a popular one...fiction.

AND THEN PRAY THREW TILL YOU HEAR GOD'S VOICE, THEN ASK HIM

i already did...
and He gave me an answer loud and clear in the Word of God
pre trib is a fairytale....a lie....

so, let's review, with biblical proof...

well, i gave you reasons why i know the Rod of Iron is Christ

Psalm 2

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
​

proves my point true

and again....

in Rev12, there are Saints in heaven who got there by dying, not by being raptured.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
​

proves my point

in Rev12, there are Christians here, who both keep the commandments and have the testimony of Jesus Christ
only Christians do so, and Christians are here on earth during that time.

​

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
​

my point proven again

well, your logic doesn't work either way.
the raptured Saints are not caught up at their birth either....
or else non of us would ever be alive and remain unto His Coming.

you said Christ was not caught up at His birth...
well, either are the elect/raptured.
my point proven

just before the rapture, the dead in Christ come from heaven with Christ

and are raised back to life here first.
then after that, the rapture.

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
​

seems my point is proven again, biblically!

 

[Matariki]

AMOS 3;7 SURLY THE LORD GOD WILL DO NOTHING, BUT HE REVEALETH HIS SECRET UNTO HIS SERVANTS THE PROPHETS

SO THERE WILL BE THOSE THAT KNOW.

MAT25;6 AND AT MIDNIGHT THERE WAS A CRY MADE. BEHOLD THE BRIDEGROOM COMETH

SO SOME ONE OUTSIDE OF THE MAIN BODY OF THE CHURCH KNOWS

Uh... well the verses you quoted appear to be in context of the birth of Jesus, not his second coming. And there is no indication in the bible that the time of the second coming has been revealed to anyone, at least no where near enough information to declare a date, probably for good reason too.

 

[ViaCrucis]

NO MAT 25 SAYS THAT THE ENTIRE BRIDE IS ASLEEP. SO THEREFORE IT WILL BE SOME ONE LIKE JOHN THE BAPTIST, OUT SIDE THE MAIN BODY

Typing in all caps doesn't communicate your ideas any better, and is the internet equivalent of yelling.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BobRyan]

I don't think that's the case at all. I mean, I suppose it's a possibility, but I think we have a few decades to go. Why do you believe we are so close to the end?

That is a good question.

Daniel 7, and Rev 11, and Revelation 12, and Revelation 13 all predicted the 1260 years of dark ages persecution to happen before the end. that has passed.

Matt 24 predicts that the Gospel will go into all the World and THEN will the end come. That is either past or right on top of passing - as the gospel ministries have covered the globe umpteen times over. I was in India and noticed that they Christian Gospel programming in both English and Hindi pretty much non-stop on some channels. So even though Christianity is no more than 1% or 2% of the population - the coverage is massive. And now with internet - the former iron-curtain countries have their own people exposed to Christian sermons, Bible studies videos etc.

In Revelation 12 - you have the 1260 years of the Dark Ages.

In Revelation 13 you have a 7 headed (symbolic) beast that is a composite of all the world empires listed (as beasts with a total of 7 heads) in Daniel 7.

That has already happened.

In Rev 13 you have another beast rising up at the end of the Dark Ages - and rising to world super power status. That has happened.

In Rev 13 that super power - starts off like a lamb. (The good guys) - but it ends up revoking every principle of its constitution and speaking instead like a dragon - before it is all over. It sets up the mark of the beast.

It has yet to do such a thing - but ...
Obama gives himself control of all communication systems in America — RT

It is getting closer to creating a foundation for it. So yes - wayyy closer than 30 years away.

Ok, I see 1260 days, not years. I see no reason to take the days allegorically as years, as the context does not require it.

Actually the context does require it for a number of reasons. The first one being that the "days" of Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 and Daniel 9 are all prophetic day-for-year days. We see this most clearly in Daniel 9 where the 70 weeks of days (490 days = 490 years) is well recognized by all Bible scholars.

That same unit of time is plugged into Daniel 8 giving the start point for the Daniel 8 prophecy about 2300 days (day for year) just as Daniel 9 states.

And then the fact that Daniel 8 deals with the same little horn issue as Daniel 7 - and Daniel 8 also deals with Medo-Persia and Greece - and then the little horn of Daniel 7 - so clearly Daniel 8 is also using the same day-for-year as Daniel 9, and it is speaking to the same events as you find in Daniel 7.

They all fit together perfectly and all of them use the same day-for-year model.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Matt 24 predicts that the Gospel will go into all the World and THEN will the end come.

It's talking about the preaching of the two witnesses there, which hasn't happened yet.

No mention at all of "two witnesses" in Matt 24.

The text says clearly "This gospel of the kingdom will go into all the world and then the end will come".

And the chapter goes on to describe that "end" as the coming of the Son of Man to earth when all the tribes of the earth shall mourn and the Angels are sent out to gather His elect from the four corners of the earth.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

In Revelation 12 - you have the 1260 years of the Dark Ages.

In Revelation 13 you have a 7 headed (symbolic) beast that is a composite of all the world empires listed (as beasts with a total of 7 heads) in Daniel 7.

That has already happened.

In Rev 13 you have another beast rising up at the end of the Dark Ages - and rising to world super power status. That has happened.

In Rev 13 that super power - starts off like a lamb. (The good guys) - but it ends up revoking every principle of its constitution and speaking instead like a dragon - before it is all over. It sets up the mark of the beast.

The beast has already come? I must've missed it then. Who exactly is the antichrist?

Yes. The 1260 years of Rev 11, and 12, and 13 and Dan 7 have already passed. They deal with the little horn of Dan 7 and 8 persecuting the saints. Just as we see the saints persecuted in Rev 12 and 13 during that same 1260 years of dark ages persecution.

(Actually think this is the part where most of those in the Protestant reformation found agreement).

The first beast of Rev 13 is a composite (dragon, leopard, bear, lion) - of the very same beasts in Dan 7 "Lion, bear, leopard, dragon" -

Only in reverse order since John is looking back on those empires and Daniel was looking forward in time.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[doright]

the first thing will be the rapture, a small group 100,000 maybe less

then the antichrist will show up

then the war of ezek. 38&39

then 7 years of burning weapons ezek 39;9

and the main harvest of the church

then the sealing of the 144,000

and they preach for about 3 1/2 years

which will bring in the gleaning

for this to start it is a very short time, so you will not have to wait long....

 

[zeke37]

the first thing will be the rapture, a small group 100,000 maybe less

fiction

then the antichrist will show up

then the war of ezek. 38&39

then 7 years of burning weapons ezek 39;9

the 7 years is AFTER the trib is all over....

and the main harvest of the church

everyone is harvested together on the last day,
which is when the dead are raised

then the sealing of the 144,000

no, that happens before the time/times/half a time, because it is before the 4 winds blow the tribulation

and they preach for about 3 1/2 years

which will bring in the gleaning

at the end of the time/times/half a time, is the main harvest, not gleaning....,
the gleaning comes in the millennium, after refinement of those believers that take the mark of the beast

for this to start it is a very short time, so you will not have to wait long....

we ALL will be here to see the entire trib bro...
unless we die in the flesh before it begins.
there is no pret rib rapture.