Socialism vs the Bible

[EddyMabo]

Well-intentioned, yet ignorant of economic realities. At worst, they're legalistic about their political opinions.

Please tell us scholar of economics why a socialist is ignorant of "economic realities".

 

[Sketcher]

Please tell us scholar of economics why a socialist is ignorant of "economic realities".

Read.

 

[renewed21]

IMO, Christ taught and lived socialism. I don't see how anyone can logically refute.

 

[EddyMabo]

Read.

A book of complete garbage about non-existent free markets by a neo-liberalist. With neo-liberalism being a key reason we have had major economic problems.

Pretty substandard response.

 

[renewed21]

Isn't socialism the predominant economic reality throughout history? At least until roughly 2ooo years ago. How does capitalism benefit man's dilemma? I just don't see it.

 

[Redac]

Isn't socialism the predominant economic reality throughout history? At least until roughly 2ooo years ago. How does capitalism benefit man's dilemma? I just don't see it.

Marx and Engels described it as primitive communism.

 

[renewed21]

Marx and Engels described it as primitive communism.

I guess I see communism as a subset of socialism. ANyway the mindset of "Im gonna get mine regardless" doesn't wash with Christ's work on the cross, or the logical purpose of man. Just my opinion.

 

[Sketcher]

A book of complete garbage about non-existent free markets by a neo-liberalist. With neo-liberalism being a key reason we have had major economic problems.

Pretty substandard response.

I'm pretty sure he knew more about economics than you will learn in your lifetime. What Nobel Prize have you won in economics?

 

[David Brider]

Make them work for one-way tickets to Siberia, or China, or Iran.
If that won't cure them, nothing will.

Why, what effect would that have on us?

 

[David Brider]

Having been blessed by God, communism to leave, I know the above is true.

Socialism =/= communism.

Socialism is a government in which the state owns the means of production and allocates resources to its citizens at its discretion. iow, the government owns the people.

No; socialism is where the workers own the means of production.

 

[David Brider]

Socialism is about collective ownership of the means of production. It's about the rational ordering of society for the benefit of all.

"You must fear the LORD your God and serve him. When you take an oath, you must use only his name." Deuteronomy 6:13
Socialism is about the effective use of government, workers councils, and unions for the benefit of all. Making use of a mechanism or tool for the benefit of all is a good thing. In Democratic Socialism the people self govern.

Is each persons Bible unique?

Socialism promotes equality under the law and equal access to the financial goods of the land. It doesn't demand that every person is literally the same or a clone of one another.

What evidence can you provide to substantiate that?

The "free will" to do exactly as the Bible demands?

Please explain how socialism restricts peoples will? Certainly any form of governance or organization of the economy (be it capitalist or socialist or monarchist or democratic) might effect peoples actions but how exactly does it restrict their own personal will?


Mixed economies like Norway seem to work fairly well. Actual full democratic socialism hasn't really been implemented anywhere at this time but I believe it will work when things eventually move in that direction.

QFT.

It never ceases to amaze me that so many people on this forum want to push this misguided concept that socialism is some great evil.

 

[EddyMabo]

I'm pretty sure he knew more about economics than you will learn in your lifetime. What Nobel Prize have you won in economics?

Kissinger and Obama got Nobel prizes too.

Friedman is hack whose economic theories are a proven failure or simply non-existent.

 

[NightHawkeye]

It never ceases to amaze me that so many people on this forum want to push this misguided concept that socialism is some great evil.

Hi, David.

It might have something to do with the fact that Marxism, as described by Marx and Engels, seeks to displace religion.

I'm pretty sure that's not what Jesus wanted.

 

[SharonL]

Great post.

 

[SharonL]

QFT.

It never ceases to amaze me that so many people on this forum want to push this misguided concept that socialism is some great evil.

Maybe it's because of the people chosen to fill positions that takes us down the worng path and the manuel of Alinsky that they all use. Count the many politicians now that are Socialists, Marxists, Commies - compare them to the policies that are coming forward - the handwriting is on the wall -

 

[HalfoffSale]

 

[Yekcidmij]

Kissinger and Obama got Nobel prizes too.

In economics?

Friedman is hack whose economic theories are a proven failure or simply non-existent.

Which ones?

 

[David Brider]

Hi, David.

It might have something to do with the fact that Marxism, as described by Marx and Engels, seeks to displace religion.

Marxism =/= socialism.

 

[David Brider]

Maybe it's because of the people chosen to fill positions that takes us down the worng path and the manuel of Alinsky that they all use. Count the many politicians now that are Socialists, Marxists, Commies - compare them to the policies that are coming forward - the handwriting is on the wall -

Which politicians in particular? Which policies in particular? What is this "manual of Alinsky"? Do you realise that socialism, marxism and communism are not identical?

 

[dobson67]

Jesus was a socialist, period

Since Christianity is based upon Christ’s New Testament life, logically speaking—no one can claim an economics which defies Christ’s teachings, or Biblical doctrine, should still be called “Christian.” Given the Bible’s scope and length, one cannot exhaustively treat any subject in such a short article. Yet, the Bible’s remarkably consistent across all 66 books means that to study a thematic section is to gain holographic understanding of the whole.

~The following headings in bold are socialist ideals which are then contrasted to biblical verses~

1. Socialism Holds There is No Private Property, the State Owns All: In Socialism, government holds all right to property ownership, even if all goods are not yet confiscated. But did Jesus really oppose property rights?

Consider: Exodus 20:15, 17—“You shall not steal,” and “You shall not covet…anything belonging to your neighbor.”

Also: John 10:10—“The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy…”

Analysis: The Ten Commandments form the center of the Old and New Testament law. Rules against theft and coveting, contained therein, demand pre-existing private property rights. Knowing this, would Christ then still insist government had exclusive legal claim to all property? Yet, even if government did own all property, would the Bible writers position that the state would wisely allocate property according to Christ’s standards?

2. Socialism Ignores Laziness: Socialism financially supports those refusing to work. So does the Bible teach that those avoiding to toil should still be paid?

Consider: Proverbs 6:6-8—“Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise! It has no commander, no overseer or ruler, yet it stores its provisions in summer and gathers its food at harvest.”

Also: 2 Thessalonians 3:6-12 “In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every idle brother, not living according to our teaching. You ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you…For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “If a man will not work, he shall not eat.” We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies. Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat.”

Analysis: This question covers a key issue of the debate. Would the Apostles teach that those refusing to work should not receive church aid, yet were still eminently worthy of government welfare? (Those truly unable to work were supported by the early Church: James 1:27—“Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows…”)

3. Socialism Teaches All Authority Belongs to Government: Does Christ teach all earthly authority is to be transferred to secular governments?

Consider: In John 19:8-11, Pilate asks, ““Don’t you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?” Jesus replied, “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above…”“

Also: Daniel 2:20-21—“Blessed be the name of God…he removes kings, and sets up kings…”

Again: In Acts 4:19-20, when the Apostles were ordered to stop evangelizing, they responded, “Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God’s sight to obey you rather than God. For we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard.”

Analysis: The Bible teaches God appoints governments, so does it follow He allows His people to capitulate this authority to atheist regimes? If so, we must believe Jesus asks His disciples to obey a new political priesthood whose activities makes the Church redundant, and His own works irrelevant. Does this notion seem logically coherent? And as seen in the previous Acts verses, the Bible teaches a divine mandate exists above secular law. Are not Christians held to follow Jesus’ teachings above human law?

4. Socialism is a Branch of Humanism: Since socialism is an atheistic, humanistic philosophical system, would Jesus accept it?

Consider: Romans 12:2—“Don’t conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind…to test and approve what God’s will is…”

Analysis: This passage seems to reject human-based values, suggesting humanism is incompatible with Jesus’ teachings.

5. Socialism Seeks a Heaven on Earth: Does the Bible call man to build an earthly paradise via government?

Consider: Revelations 21:1-4—“Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away… I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God…There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”“

Analysis: Doesn’t the Bible portray Heaven, or the New Jerusalem, arriving after the return of Christ, as a perfect city? If Paradise does come to earth, will it really be delivered by secular atheists using Marxist doctrines?

6. Socialism Allows No Freedom of Action or Expression: Does the Bible ask Believers to surrender God-given freedoms to bureaucrats?

Consider: Galatians 5:1—“It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.”

Also: 2 Corinthians 3:17—“Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.”

Analysis: Didn’t Christ gave His disciples freedom in order to better follow His teachings? If so, does this freedom then simply get handed over to a secular governments? Regardless, history has shown socialism and communism have enslaved billions around the world.

7. In Socialism, the State Replaces Church: Should the church step aside to allow government to fulfill the task of helping the poor and downtrodden, and many other biblical duties?

Consider: In Matthew 22:15-21, Christ says, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”“

Analysis: Jesus separates civil government and church. From a Christian perspective, can government simply replace the church? Could it ever have that authority; and if so, based upon what?! When government takes over Church mandated roles, like feeding the poor, etc, can it do so on a biblical model, or achieve Christ’s goals? And if government uses the Bible as model, doesn’t this destroy the “wall of separation” between church and state?

8. Claims that Jesus Hated Capitalism: Didn’t Christ express disgust at capitalist excesses at the Temple?

Consider: Matthew 21:12-13 “Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. “It is written,” he said to them, ” ‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but you are making it a ‘den of robbers.’”

Analysis: This verse focuses on dishonest hypocrites defrauding religious seekers in the Temple. Jesus was angry at the misuse of His Father’s house for sordid gain. Is it therefore reasonable to suggest Christ is putting down all trade in this passage?