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Young Earth Creation as opposed to Old Earth Creation (aka evolution lite)

Keachian

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Right. I just get tired of viewing the same old lies over and over again. But if you could convince me there is something there I haven't seen I might be more interested.
Well considering it is a claim that the video that was posted with Dawkins a while back was a quote mine it's


To compare God's Word and the historical account He gave us through Moses to that of the Illiad tells us exactly where your thinking is. There is no mythology in scripture, the poetic and/or symbolic expressions notwithstanding.
Did God give us a historical account of material creation though?


Wrong. Mendel's views do not support evolution at all. Shall I quote his famous 1866 paper to prove that?
You mean quote mine his famous 1866 paper.

I see. Never mind the testimony of the prophets, N.T. authors and the Lord Jesus Christ himself who verified the historial accounts of creation, Adam, Eve, the fall of man, the murder of Abel by Cain, the rapture of Enoch, and the flood of Noah. Right?
Well no they don't tell me one way or the other whether they were literal-historic accounts, only that they were known shared stories, I could just as easily talk about Harry Potter and his battle against Voldemort and draw parallels with the Easter account. In all of the references of the OT characters they are used as teaching aids in the NT, this does not mean that they are literal.

Quite frankly, you don't care what they said. Your 'theology' is determined by status quo Darwinian thinking. Scripture will always take a back seat for theistic evolutionists who have sold their souls to modern neo-Darwinian philosophy.
I do care what they said, I care about figuring out what they were originally writing about and material creation is not it when it comes to Gen1:1-2:4, it's a temple cosmogony text, I started seeing this well before I became a theistic evolutionist, it's what helped me realise that theistic evolution is compatible with the Gen1 account.
 
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Keachian

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I've been meaning to ask you, the bible states God created birds before reptiles, but evolution has reptiles before birds. How do you reconcile that?

May God Richly Bless You! MM

Well the Gen 1 text is not material history, it's in my mind spiritual history, the overarching idea is that the Temple be fitted and so it goes from the outer court to the holy of holies, the land animals are in the holy of holies bit so they are spiritually created then, they get purpose, function.
 
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Keachian

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The big bang and creation week are both in the unobserved past. Either event must be taken by faith. One has historical data (bible) one doesnt (big bang). Science is here and now, for events in the past we have historical data/man writing things down (which goes back ~6000 years).

yet both hypotheses would leave evidence, I'm far more ready to theologically accept uniformitarianism, than I am the in my mind creationist idea that God keeps changing how quickly things happen, to me that kind of goes against God being the same yesterday, today and forever.
 
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Metal Minister

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jinx25 said:
haha really how? Also Progmonk or someone defending fish-->human being "evolution" please cite some literature papers so we can begin the failure. Human chromosome 2 is one that most people like.

You'll find that many of the TE/oec's when confronted with the impossibility of a part of evolution will either outright debt its impossible or say "God intervened" to make it possible.

May God Richly Bless You! MM

*EDIT*
None of them have been able to explain or prove with scripture why God would use a system He would constantly have to fix to get us here.
 
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samaus12345

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haha good good thats right we cant create ANYTHING all we do is change things from something into something else (still can do some cool stuff though).


About 4 months ago i started to realise this "evolution" thing has no foundation. I used to hear people like Richard Dawkins talking about it and would see a "mirage" like i felt as if i was seeing something that just wasnt there or was an illusion/mirage. I read 6 or so of his books and 2 of Darwins and watched numerous hours worth of interviews with him (Dawkins) and felt as if i was looking for something but didnt quite know what. It all started coming undone one day VERY very quickly. It was amazing. That Richard Dawkins video where he is asked "can you give an example....." helped as did that John Mackay/Richard Dawkins one. I emailed the National institute of health (N.I.H.) which was part of the NHGRI (national human genome research institute, they mapped the first human genome) and asked them ( i dont still have the very first questions i asked them but i have a couple that i will post verbatim) something like:

Hi i am interested to know what evidence there is for evolution please? Thank you.

They responded with "Please see our q and a on our website" and linked it to me. I read them and emailed a few specific people from whom there were what i perceived to be BOLD quotes. Things like "humans are continuing to evolve" and "we can watch evolution happening in the lab". I asked for literature citations for such quotes.

Verbatim (copy pasted).


Hi. I found the following quote from you on N.I.H.'s website in reference to "evolution"

Alan Guttmacher, M.D.: Developing new research tools to translate the findings of the Human Genome Project (HGP) into new diagnostic tests and therapies. Despite occasional evidence to the contrary, yes. As in all other species, evolution never stops occurring in humans. Evolution occurs slowly, of course, so it is hard to actually "see" it happening, but we are continuing to evolve. One can imagine, for instance, that if global warming persists for a sufficient number of human generations, we might evolve in ways that would allow us to survive more effectively in the new environment of the earth. Of course, evolution, does happen slowly, so it is a much better idea to combat global warming itself, rather than counting on our adopting to it somehow...

Could you please cite some literature for " evolution never stops occurring in human" and "but we are continuing to evolve"


Thanks



His response:

"I am sorry that I do not have time to do this literature search, but there are many articles that show that humans continue to have new mutations."

So in this context the word "evolution" has been defined as "mutations". If evolution meant ONLY mutation then every one on the planet would agree that we are "evolving".

I then emailed Francis Collins. He responded (kinda surprisingly)


"These are important questions – and they actually have compelling answers. I would assume from your comments that you are not convinced by the argument supporting human evolution. But the study of DNA provides powerful evidence – it’s almost like a time machine. Might I suggest you obtain a copy of my book “The Language of God” and have a look at some of that evidence? Chromosome 2 turns out to be a rather compelling case."

Best, Francis

I had read and failed the human chromosome 2 paper that day or a few days before when someone on youtube had cited it to me.

I look at two rocks on my driveway. I say to someone "4444 years ago these two rocks were one rock on the moon, then 999 years ago that one rock evolved into these two rocks and thats why we have two here today".

My claim has no scientific basis as its not empirical, testable, repeatable, experimental etc. I am making a claim about the unobserved past, that has no way of being verified by science and so if one wishes to believe my one rock to two rock evolution they must take it by faith that it happened.

Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes, chimps have 24. The claim is that a chimp chromosome "fused" and became one thats why we have one less set of chromosomes than chimps.

Here is the human chromosome 2 paper. Keeping in mind my rock story what you are looking for is in the first section.


http://www.pnas.org/content/88/20/9051.full.pdf
 
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Metal Minister

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I can't seem to open your link in my browser...hmm...probably a problem at my end.

May God Richly Bless You! MM
*edit*
Got it! A few million years ago...and I thought the whole point of the telomeres job was to cap a chromosome not link two together? Perhaps I'm missing it...
 
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samaus12345

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Yes exactly lol. Thats right. Remember my rock story. That is what *most* of neodarwinian delusion/hypothesis is based on. Assigning causes/process to the unobserved past. Thats why Richard Dawkins said what he said when hes asked for an "example of an genetic mutation or.....". He (paraphrased) said "we dont observe it today BUT/because it started and stopped happening in the unobserved past". How do fairytales start off? "A long long time ago far far away". Well ladies and gentlemen here we have (neodarwinian delusion/hypothesis) the greatest myth/fairytale in documented history. Thats why "neodarwinain theory" is a misnomer because theory comes after observation. It is (accurately) neodarwinian hypothesis. Hypothesis-observation-theory. This isnt only restricted to human chromosome 2 literature. If one was to start looking they would love what they find lol. Its a standard procedure for the alleged gene duplication of fish-->human being "evolution" too.

Theistic evolutionists comment away please.
 
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NGC 6712

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I'd still like for someone to reconcile how gases forming stable amino acids escapes thermodynamics
I have a better question. Do you know anything about thermodynamics?

Because that might be a first (apart from myself) on this forum.

(Apologies to someone else who does know something about it)
 
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