There are multiple passages that show the dead are conscious after death.
There is not even one such text outside of claims made by witches or in parables.
1st Samuel 28:11-19 - samuel talked with a witch after death
In 1Samuel 28 the witch (servant of satan) is instructed by the king to "conjure up for me whomever I request" -- this is a conjuring exercise. And the witch alone claims to SEE the being she is conjuring up for the king.
In this witches tale - God tells His prophets NOT to speak to Saul at all - but the WITCH claims to have power over the dead saints - power to conjure them up - power to get them to speak to Saul against the direct command of God.
Some believe the witch -- even to this day... some choose instead to believe God.
Let each make up their mind on whether to base their faith in the claims of witches.
God says in Isaiah 8 that we are not to go to the dead on behalf of the living.
Matthew 12:40 (Jonah 2) – Jonah spoke as one from hell who was dead.
Matt 12 does NOT say that Jonah spoke after dying so that is a dead end for your argument.
Matthew 17:2-3 – Moses and Elias were talking with Jesus after their death.
Elijah never died - according to 2Kings 2.
Moses was resurrected by the time of Matt 17 according to Jude 7's reference to the book "
The Assumption of Moses".
Another dead end for your argument from the Bible.
Matthew 22:31-32 – Abraham was dead, but still living.
In Matt 22 your entire argument is shot in the foot because in that chapter Christ argues that the PROOF of the future resurrection lies in the fact that God is NOT the God of the dead. Christ is arguing that the ONLY way God could claim to be the God of Abraham at any point after Abraham dies - is for there to be a future resurrection.
Is argument is based on the soul-slee-state of the saints in death because without it - God could claim to be the "God of the dead WITHOUT a future resurrection"
Luke 16:19-31 – Jesus tells the story of dead people speaking in hell. (Some wrongly think this is a parable.
The Luke 16 parable of praying to the dead has Abraham as the Sovereign of all saints in heaven. To Abraham alone is the prayer and plea made. From Abraham alone comes the response that he will not permit someone to be resurrected. Notice however that in that parable the agreed upon point is that CONTRARY to the 1Sam 28 claims of the witch - the ONLY way that the dead can minister to the living is for one of them to be resurrected!!
The total undoing of your entire argument to the contrary.
Notice that the moral of the parable is NOT the praying to the dead is the thing to do - or that Abraham is really in charge of all dead saints. Rather in Luke 16 the moral of the parable is stated at the end "
if they will not listen to Moses NEITHER will they listen though one were to rise from the dead".
Luke 23:43 – Jesus says the malefactor will be in paradise with him “today”.
Luke 23
-- The thief's request "
Remember me WHEN you come in your kingdom"
-- Jesus' reply "V
erily I say to you today you WILL be with me in paradise"
Jesus says in John 20:17 on the day of His resurrection "
do not touch me for I have not YET ascended to My Father" -- He had not yet gone to paradise on the day of His resurrection.
1 Thessalonians 5:10 – Whether they wake or sleep they live with the Lord.
1Thess 4 says that AT the coming of Christ "
the dead in Christ WILL RISE first and we who are alive and remain WILL be caught UP with them in the air.. so shall we ever be WITH the Lord, therefore comfort one another with these words".
Paul already told them just how it is that they would be WITH the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:6-8 – Paul explains that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
There is not ONE text in all of scripture that says "
to be absent from the body
is to be present with the Lord." -- no not even one....no not even in 2Cor 5:6-10.
INSTEAD of that - Paul says in 2Cor 5 that there are THREE states of man - the first one is alive in this decaying tent.
The second is is - unclothed -- no tent at all.
The third one is at the resurrection where we get an immortal body "made in the heavens" - an eternal one.
HE says he would like to BE absent from the present decaying tent (body) AND TO BE present with the Lord in that eternal heavenly body that is given at the resurrection. But Paul does not say "To be absent from the body IS TO BE present with the Lord" -- not even once in all of scripture.
2 Corinthians 12:2-4 – Paul describes someone who heard things possibly out of his body.
That is true - but in 2Cor 12 Paul is not talking about someone who died. He is talking about himself.
Philippians 1:23 – Paul says that he would depart to be with Christ, not unconscious.
Paul says in Phil 1 that he desires to "Depart AND be with Christ" - but he does not say that to depart IS to be with Christ as if the act of dying alone accomplishes what we are already told in 1Thess 4 and 1Cor 15 will only happen at the 2nd coming.
Because the soul sleep state leaves the soul unaware of time - there is no time that passes for the "Dead in Christ" of 1Thess 4. It would appear to the dead person as if at the moment of death - they were present at the resurrection of 1Thess 4.
Revelation 6:9-11 – The souls of the dead are crying out to God.
Apocalyptic symbols.
Sleep never refers to the soul or spirit. It only applies to the body.
In John 11 Christ does NOT say "The body of our friend Lazarus sleeps I go that I may awake IT". As if Lazarus himself was awake and happy in heaven but his poor body was left behind and IT was sleeping.
Rather He says "
Our friend LAZARUS sleeps I go that I may awake HIM"
The body does not sleep in death - it decays and is destroyed - it turns to dust and does not come back. This decaying tent of 2Cor 5 does not come back.
The earthly body of 1Cor 15:35-37 dies and does not come back for as Paul says
35 But someone will say, “
How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?” 36 You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies; 37 and
that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
In Matt 10:27-28 Christ says that this decaying tent is killed - is destroyed in the first death. But in the 2nd death - God alone is able to "
Destroy BOTH body AND soul in fiery hell".
in Christ,
Bob
Wrong! Arabic demons (also spelled “afrits”
) commentary says....
