Joseph Prince

[ABlessedAnomaly]

"I give thanks to God for my roots in the Word of Faith teachings. It is truly on the shoulders of great men of God like Brother Kenneth E Hagin that we are able to see further into the Word of God today. Growing up, I learned alot about faith from Brother Hagin who truly had a special revelation of faith from the Lord. I deeply honor and respect him for all the he has taught me."
​

"However, after many generations of faith teachings, there are people who have turned faith into a work. Have you heard people saying "Oh, this thing happened to you because you don't have enough faith" or " Oh, you have to have great faith to see that breakthrough"? I don't know how you feel when you hear things like that, but I always felt condemned for not having more faith"
​

"Now, I know that faith is the opposite of the law, and that the more people become self-conscious, and the more they look at their self-efforts to recieve from the Lord, the more faith is depleted from them. So when the Lord opened my eyes to grace, I changed what I was preaching entirely and I began to declare to my people, "There's nothing wrong with God, nothing wrong with the Word and guess what? Through the blood of Jesus, there's nothing wrong with you! Recieve your miracle!"
​

-- from pp. 271-272 Destined to Reign softcover. Joseph Prince
​

Ok. I'll put myself on the block since I claim Joel not as WoF (although a very fine preacher of the positive confession) and I claim Joseph Prince is WoF. Some would disagree.

Above are some quotes from a couple pages in his Destined to Reign book. Clearly he identifies himself as having "roots in the Word of Faith" movement. Some say that that "However" and the "I changed what I was preaching" to be his admonition that he turned or backed away. I say no, he simply began to give focus to Grace where early Word/Faith (under Hagin and early Copeland) did not focus on such.

Do these quotes cause concern for anyone (WoF) here?

As for me, I teach that one hinderance to receiving a miracle is "little faith." But I agree with Joseph that we do not "have to have great faith to see [a] breakthrough." God knows our heart and our desire. We could have small (not little) faith, but desire deeper faith and God will still help us receive. He'll also teach us how to grow that faith. I make the distinction between "little" and "small" as this: "little" are people not trying (Nazareth, disciples in the storm, etc.) while "small" is simply one who desires great faith but has not learned and exercised it enough ("Lord, I believe; help my unbelief").

So, even if you are not a faith giant (yet), you can still "receive your miracle" because of Grace. God will, as a daddy takes his little child's hand to help, take our hand and lift us up, point us in the right direction, and give us a pat on the rear to get us going. He'll smile when we walk. He'll chuckle when we fall. And He'll lift us up again and encourage us forward in our "small" faith. We don't deserve the help, but it comes because He loves us. That's Grace.

And it is this "rebalancing" of faith and grace that Joseph Prince has brought to the body, and especially to the Word/Faith movement.

 

[HolySpiritWOF2]

"I give thanks to God for my roots in the Word of Faith teachings. It is truly on the shoulders of great men of God like Brother Kenneth E Hagin that we are able to see further into the Word of God today. Growing up, I learned alot about faith from Brother Hagin who truly had a special revelation of faith from the Lord. I deeply honor and respect him for all the he has taught me."
​

"However, after many generations of faith teachings, there are people who have turned faith into a work. Have you heard people saying "Oh, this thing happened to you because you don't have enough faith" or " Oh, you have to have great faith to see that breakthrough"? I don't know how you feel when you hear things like that, but I always felt condemned for not having more faith"
​

"Now, I know that faith is the opposite of the law, and that the more people become self-conscious, and the more they look at their self-efforts to recieve from the Lord, the more faith is depleted from them. So when the Lord opened my eyes to grace, I changed what I was preaching entirely and I began to declare to my people, "There's nothing wrong with God, nothing wrong with the Word and guess what? Through the blood of Jesus, there's nothing wrong with you! Recieve your miracle!"
​

-- from pp. 271-272 Destined to Reign softcover. Joseph Prince
​

Ok. I'll put myself on the block since I claim Joel not as WoF (although a very fine preacher of the positive confession) and I claim Joseph Prince is WoF. Some would disagree.

Above are some quotes from a couple pages in his Destined to Reign book. Clearly he identifies himself as having "roots in the Word of Faith" movement. Some say that that "However" and the "I changed what I was preaching" to be his admonition that he turned or backed away. I say no, he simply began to give focus to Grace where early Word/Faith (under Hagin and early Copeland) did not focus on such.

Do these quotes cause concern for anyone (WoF) here?

As for me, I teach that one hinderance to receiving a miracle is "little faith." But I agree with Joseph that we do not "have to have great faith to see [a] breakthrough." God knows our heart and our desire. We could have small (not little) faith, but desire deeper faith and God will still help us receive. He'll also teach us how to grow that faith. I make the distinction between "little" and "small" as this: "little" are people not trying (Nazareth, disciples in the storm, etc.) while "small" is simply one who desires great faith but has not learned and exercised it enough ("Lord, I believe; help my unbelief").

So, even if you are not a faith giant (yet), you can still "receive your miracle" because of Grace. God will, as a daddy takes his little child's hand to help, take our hand and lift us up, point us in the right direction, and give us a pat on the rear to get us going. He'll smile when we walk. He'll chuckle when we fall. And He'll lift us up again and encourage us forward in our "small" faith. We don't deserve the help, but it comes because He loves us. That's Grace.

And it is this "rebalancing" of faith and grace that Joseph Prince has brought to the body, and especially to the Word/Faith movement.

i agree with how faith can become a work.... we need to remember that it is GOD'S GIFT of faith in us.... and we can tap into HIS faith....

smith wigglesworth said that when ever he encountered a situation where he did NOT have sufficient faith.... he would reach up and TAKE AHOLD of GOD'S FAITH.... that is how he raised several people from the dead....

i have recently learned from Andre to ask the HOLY SPIRIT for whatever i am lacking.... so now NOTHING is a problem.... if i need faith i ask for / reach out and take ahold of / call to myself the HOLY SPIRIT'S faith....

or love... or forgiveness... or wisdom.... or anything i seem to be lacking inside myself at any given moment....

just like the father of the epileptic boy who said.... i do believe... help my unbelief.... and paul who said i will rejoice in my infirmities.... for when i am weak then i am strong.... he knew too that GOD'S strength is ALWAYS available when we are humanly insufficient....

so thank you Andre for sharing your testimony of how you ask the HOLY SPIRIT to do through you what you in your human self/strength cannot do.... this is the SPIRIT without limit.... there is NO limit to what the HOLY SPIRIT in us can do....

 

[pk4yahweh]

I see the terms "great faith" and "little faith" in a different sort of light.

We all know that the Bible says we have all been given the measure of faith at the new birth. And it has been taught over and over that we have been given all that we will ever need to live a godly life. As well we are aware that without faith it is impossible to please God (and live a godly life).

So we have all the faith we need.

I believe "great faith" and "little faith" are not referring to the amount of faith we have - but the amount we are using.

Therefore - when I do not receive my healing because of a "lack of faith" - then what is really happening is that I am not engaging all of the faith that has been made available to me through the blood of Jesus.

So then - that would not place this in a "works" category - but instead it would be all about God and me learning to fully trust Him in what He has given me.

An example would be someone being given a tool for a job - but they do not use the tool, but their bare hands instead... and the job suffers. The issue isn't the tool they were given - nor their trust in their own ability to perform the job - but their using what has been provided for them.

So - to ME - this whole argument about "faith being turned into works" is simply due to a misunderstanding of scripture... not a misunderstanding of faith.

Hope that makes sense...

 

[PastorMike]

I don't see Joseph as WoF, there are some things I disagree with him on as far as old testament types etc and I agree that he has brought a strong emphasis on Grace to the body...

There are different kinds of faith mentioned in the word, let’s look at some of them…

2Thess. 1:3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly… God is saying that faith can grow.

Well, since faith can grow, it can be strong or weak—developed or undeveloped.

Let’s look at several other statements Jesus made about faith.

Luke 12:28 If then God so clothe the grass, which is today in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, o ye of little faith.

Matt. 14:28–31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, o thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

Matt. 8:5–8,10,13 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel….

Jesus said to the disciples about the centurion, …I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. So in these passages we’ve read, Jesus told one man that he had great faith and told another man that he had little faith.

Rom. 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara’s womb.

The very next verse speaks of strong faith.

Rom. 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God.

Acts 6:5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude. And they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and the Holy Spirit,

James 2:5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?

James 2:22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? Perfect faith!

1Tim. 1:5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith,

1Tim. 1:19 having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck…

1John 5:4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Overcoming Faith!

Strong faith, weak faith, growing faith, sincere faith, shipwrecked faith full of faith etc.

Rom. 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

NEB We conclude that faith is awakened by the message…

Heb. 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

NEB Faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses…

 

[CindyisHis]

I'd say JP is WoF. He is teaching the Word of God without twisting it. He is showing Jesus in everything He teaches whether from the New or Old Testament.

Seeing Jesus everywhere in the Word is my delight, and my bread.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. He is continually ministering the Word of God to us. His words feed the sheep, and the result is faith comes, as long as the heart is hearing. One must have ears to hear.

I have enjoyed all the comments on this. What a great bunch of friends to hang out with!

Good analogy, pk. I'd like to reply to this.

So then - that would not place this in a "works" category - but instead it would be all about God and me learning to fully trust Him in what He has given me.

Or not understanding how to use that faith He has given.

Mike, I'd like to hear some of your takes on OT types.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

We all know that the Bible says we have all been given the measure of faith at the new birth. And it has been taught over and over that we have been given all that we will ever need to live a godly life. As well we are aware that without faith it is impossible to please God (and live a godly life).

So we have all the faith we need.

Very good post, pk. I only disagree if you are saying that we have all the faith we'll ever be given (see my response to PastorMike here).

But I agree wholeheartedly that we have been given a measure of faith, and at times we all simply do not use it to its fullest. Much of it just sits there crying out "Use me!! Use me!!"

 

[Gxg (G²)]

"I give thanks to God for my roots in the Word of Faith teachings. It is truly on the shoulders of great men of God like Brother Kenneth E Hagin that we are able to see further into the Word of God today. Growing up, I learned alot about faith from Brother Hagin who truly had a special revelation of faith from the Lord. I deeply honor and respect him for all the he has taught me."
​

"However, after many generations of faith teachings, there are people who have turned faith into a work. Have you heard people saying "Oh, this thing happened to you because you don't have enough faith" or " Oh, you have to have great faith to see that breakthrough"? I don't know how you feel when you hear things like that, but I always felt condemned for not having more faith"
​

"Now, I know that faith is the opposite of the law, and that the more people become self-conscious, and the more they look at their self-efforts to recieve from the Lord, the more faith is depleted from them. So when the Lord opened my eyes to grace, I changed what I was preaching entirely and I began to declare to my people, "There's nothing wrong with God, nothing wrong with the Word and guess what? Through the blood of Jesus, there's nothing wrong with you! Recieve your miracle!"
​

-- from pp. 271-272 Destined to Reign softcover. Joseph Prince
​

Ok. I'll put myself on the block since I claim Joel not as WoF (although a very fine preacher of the positive confession) and I claim Joseph Prince is WoF. Some would disagree.

Above are some quotes from a couple pages in his Destined to Reign book. Clearly he identifies himself as having "roots in the Word of Faith" movement. Some say that that "However" and the "I changed what I was preaching" to be his admonition that he turned or backed away. I say no, he simply began to give focus to Grace where early Word/Faith (under Hagin and early Copeland) did not focus on such.

Do these quotes cause concern for anyone (WoF) here?

As for me, I teach that one hinderance to receiving a miracle is "little faith." But I agree with Joseph that we do not "have to have great faith to see [a] breakthrough." God knows our heart and our desire. We could have small (not little) faith, but desire deeper faith and God will still help us receive. He'll also teach us how to grow that faith. I make the distinction between "little" and "small" as this: "little" are people not trying (Nazareth, disciples in the storm, etc.) while "small" is simply one who desires great faith but has not learned and exercised it enough ("Lord, I believe; help my unbelief").

So, even if you are not a faith giant (yet), you can still "receive your miracle" because of Grace. God will, as a daddy takes his little child's hand to help, take our hand and lift us up, point us in the right direction, and give us a pat on the rear to get us going. He'll smile when we walk. He'll chuckle when we fall. And He'll lift us up again and encourage us forward in our "small" faith. We don't deserve the help, but it comes because He loves us. That's Grace.

And it is this "rebalancing" of faith and grace that Joseph Prince has brought to the body, and especially to the Word/Faith movement.

On point.

“I give thank for God for my roots in the Word of Faith teachings. It is truly on the shoulders of great men of God like Brother Kenneth E. Hagin that we are able to see further into the Word of God today. Growing up, I learned a lot about faith from Brother Hagin who truly had a special revelation of faith from the Lord. I deeply honor and respect him for all that he has taught me.”

-Joseph Prince, Destined to Reign: The Secret to effortless success, wholeness and victorious living (Singapore: Joseph Prince Media, 2007), 271.
​

​

If I may say in fellowship, I liked the book "Destined to Reign"...which was given to me by another WOF minister years ago (back in 2008) named Jason Kerr...(with Lester Summural's ministry) and it REALLY came in handy, as some of my close friends ended up getting sucked into a Hebrew Roots cult that focused exclusively on the need for believers to keep the Law (to the point of legalism and ignoring what the scriptures said about the righteousness of Christ we now have in Him). Having the knowledge of what Brother Joseph brought really kept me from falling prey to that.....

I always saw Joseph as WOF with a different emphasis than others (concerning his passion for preaching God's righteousness and grace), as what he taught was exactly what I grew up hearing from the WOF teachers I lived life with (who themselves were working with Jessie Duplantis and Lester Sumurall)...and they were the ones who pointed him to me.


I know Joseph Prince has long been working with the Hillsong Conferences when it comes to the world of Asia, just as Joyce Myers has always been another connected with HillSong....and his working with others outside the faith movement is something that makes him stand out since HillSong is not an environment that exclusively promotes only what's taught in the Faith Movement. There are others from numerous camps/denominations united for preaching the Gospel....and thus, Joseph Price is different from many in that he seeks to keep the main thing the main thing: Jesus. For Joseph, truth is truth regardless of where it is found and he has a heart for unity in the Body of Christ/networking with other groups (similar to what Myles Monroe has often done as you noted before ). That...and what he does is symbolic of new generations of WOF that have long evolved into differing variations to handle the current times..and very much distinct from some of the older generations. The fact that what he does is impacting the world of Asia and helping others to develop economically/spiritually is truly amazing, especially when seeing the ways people rarely discussed how faith impacted other cultures apart from the U.S.

It turns out that Richard Roberts (Oral Robert's son) was in Joseph Prince church prophesying very recently...not really surprising since Richard & Benny Hinn have great following in Singapore. When I heard of that, I was not surprised to see the common links between both men (Roberts and Prince). For although New Creation Church is Charismatic in practice, its non-denominational in their claims...and yet Joseph Prince has long made clear his connections to the founder of the Faith Movement, despite where he may differ from it on certain respects when it comes to application---and as it Lim Johnson noted in the 2002 book entitled "A Different Gospel: Fact, Faith, Fiction & The Christian Faith," Lim mentions, “it is possible for mainline churches to be part of this Movement but not teach everything associated with it." In a sermon done by Prince entitled "Walking in the undeserved favor of God" (28/3/04), he said the following:

“Now I've been in the Word of Faith circle and I find that Word of Faith preachers know about favor. Churches of faith know about favor. The thing that I wish many of them would say though would be this - to use that phase - undeserved favor. Favor is good and the teaching of favor has produced tremendous testimonies but I would rather the Word of Faith preachers like myself use undeserved favor because that's the true definition of grace. Now I didn't learn amazing grace from Word of Faith though I'm a Word of Faith preacher. I had to learn that truly struggling on my own”.
​

Joseph Prince is very much a blessing (IMHO)---and do appreciate his emphasis when it comes to the subject of Faith. Something that caught my attention was when he was once preaching and claimed the lack of faith in forgiveness was the real reason why people are hard on their family members. One person noted how they were married and really treating their spouse badly when their was conflict---and they realized how their treatment was based on the fact that they really didn't understand grace. It was a blessing hearing that, as many times people apply faith in terms of simply believing for material things one desires or struggles one goes through...and yet, when it comes to forgiveness, that never gets brought up. And its interesting since even Christ noted it in Luke 17:1-6. Hpw often has it been the case people know they're to love/forgive and yet when praying to God for help on the issue, it still feels inwardly like part of themselves is not involved.


Great thread, Bob

 

[HolySpiritWOF2]

if prince says he is thankful for his WOF ROOTS that sounds like he is NOT claiming to be presently wof.... otherwise he would SIMPLY say he IS wof.... he is very straight forward... so it sounds like he is saying "i am not presently wof... but i used to be"....

i am thankful for my lutheran pentecostal charismatic roots.... but i am not those anymore... i am wof.... i do not preach AGAINST lutheran pentecostal charismatic doctrines.... i simply promote wof doctrines.... because i am wof....

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

I don't see Joseph as WoF, there are some things I disagree with him on as far as old testament types etc and I agree that he has brought a strong emphasis on Grace to the body...

I'm a little confused. Ok, you don't see JP as WoF. Then you discuss faith....what's your connection?

But I do like chasing bunnies from time to time, so I'll bite:

Strong faith, weak faith, growing faith, sincere faith, shipwrecked faith full of faith etc.

As I told PK, I agree that we have a measure of faith God has given us, and our use of it is sometimes strong, sometimes weak, sometimes perfect and sometimes shipwrecked.

This doesn't preclude obtaining more faith from God (although I don't see scriptural support for God taking away faith...).

On the obtaining side....

Rom. 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

NEB We conclude that faith is awakened by the message…

** (I've taken the liberty to italicize "comes," as it appears in the NKJV that you quote.)

I don't discount this. Hearing certainly will activate and light a fire under the faith we have already received. But let's take a looke at Romans 10:17 closer:

The word "comes" is not really there. It was added by the translators for clarity.

The word "by" appears (in English NKJV) twice. Some translations more accurately use the words "from" and "through", respectively.

The first "by" is the Greek word "ek" (ἐκ) which denotes origin, motion and completion. "Faith comes from hearing." Because of the Greek word used here, the faith could not simply be resident, but rather it must have moved into place from the hearing [in this case].

The second "by" is the Greek word "dia" (διά) which denotes a "channel through which" something acts. In other words hearing ["akoē" (ἀκοή) --not simple listening but rather listening with understanding ] occurs along a path through God's Word.

God, using His Word, paths or delivers hearing/understanding to us which carries with it faith. (Note Romans 10:17 doesn't say that the activation of our faith comes by....) Whether we actually make use of the newly supplied faith is up to us: so "little faith" or "great faith" is still a "usage level" of what has been supplied.

Heb. 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

NEB Faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses…

Amen!

Faith here is a noun. It is the substance; it is the evidence. We hoped for something, God produced it in the invisible, He gives us faith to procure it. That faith in us is more than hope, it is evidence that the hoped for thing now exists in the invisible. We need to now use the faith ("great faith") to procure it and move it from the invisible into the visible.

Again I say: Amen!!

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

if prince says he is thankful for his WOF ROOTS that sounds like he is NOT claiming to be presently wof.... otherwise he would SIMPLY say he IS wof.... he is very straight forward... so it sounds like he is saying "i am not presently wof... but i used to be"....

i am thankful for my lutheran pentecostal charismatic roots.... but i am not those anymore... i am wof.... i do not preach AGAINST lutheran pentecostal charismatic doctrines.... i simply promote wof doctrines.... because i am wof....

As G quoted in his post:

In a sermon done by [Joseph] Prince entitled "Walking in the undeserved favor of God" (28/3/04), he said the following:
​

“Now I've been in the Word of Faith circle and I find that Word of Faith preachers know about favor. Churches of faith know about favor. The thing that I wish many of them would say though would be this - to use that phase - undeserved favor. Favor is good and the teaching of favor has produced tremendous testimonies but I would rather the Word of Faith preachers like myself use undeserved favor because that's the true definition of grace. Now I didn't learn amazing grace from Word of Faith though I'm a Word of Faith preacher. I had to learn that truly struggling on my own”.
​

Clearly he identifies himself as a Word of Faith preacher.

 

[HolySpiritWOF2]

As G quoted in his post:

In a sermon done by [Joseph] Prince entitled "Walking in the undeserved favor of God" (28/3/04), he said the following:
​

“Now I've been in the Word of Faith circle and I find that Word of Faith preachers know about favor. Churches of faith know about favor. The thing that I wish many of them would say though would be this - to use that phase - undeserved favor. Favor is good and the teaching of favor has produced tremendous testimonies but I would rather the Word of Faith preachers like myself use undeserved favor because that's the true definition of grace. Now I didn't learn amazing grace from Word of Faith though I'm a Word of Faith preacher. I had to learn that truly struggling on my own”.
​

Clearly he identifies himself as a Word of Faith preacher.

thanks for pointing that out... awesome...

 

[hhodgson]

As for me, I teach that one hindrance to receiving a miracle is "little faith." But I agree with Joseph that we do not "have to have great faith to see [a] breakthrough." God knows our heart and our desire. We could have small (not little) faith, but desire deeper faith and God will still help us receive. He'll also teach us how to grow that faith. I make the distinction between "little" and "small" as this: "little" are people not trying (Nazareth, disciples in the storm, etc.) while "small" is simply one who desires great faith but has not learned and exercised it enough ("Lord, I believe; help my unbelief").

You know Bob, if our faith sometimes doesn't appear to be working, many times Christians think that we need "huge" faith...Jesus took care of that in Matt 17:20, when he said, "if your faith is only the size of a mustard seed, nothing would be impossible to you." (Nothing)...That is quite a revelation, and that's even mountain moving faith...too many times we concentrate on the faith side and not working on the unbelief side...In that same passage of Matt 17:20, in a sense, Jesus was saying, "Guys, it's not that you didn't believe...It's that your unbelief negated your faith.." A person can believe and disbelieve at the same time...It's just one will negate the other...I'm sure we have all heard Wommack's analogy of the team of horses pulling a wagon with no problem, but if you hook up another equal team of horses up to the other side of the wagon, and had them pulling at the same time in opposite directions, the net effect would be zero...same as belief and unbelief, they are (both) there, but one would negate the other...when the man said, "I believe, but help my unbelief," now that's a needed teaching we don't hear about much...We can continue working on developing and releasing our faith, but we need to also starve our unbelief...and not feeding it...make sense? Just thought I would add...

Wommack stated that, "we don't really have a faith problem...what we really have is an unbelief problem...more belief, less unbelief...

Greater works...
_____________
Harry

 

[PastorMike]

I'm a little confused. Ok, you don't see JP as WoF. Then you discuss faith....what's your connection?

But I do like chasing bunnies from time to time, so I'll bite:

Now I am confused, you are the one who mentioned Joseph Prince and I replied about Joseph Prince...

Then you went on to discuss faith and I discussed faith and you are confused... and so am I ...

 

[hhodgson]

Now I am confused, you are the one who mentioned Joseph Prince and I replied about Joseph Prince...

Then you went on to discuss faith and I discussed faith and you are confused... and so am I ...

Hi PastorMike,

Who wrote that song, "theres a whole lot of confusion going on" by Jerry Lee Lewis in 1957...hmmm..! confusion don't seem like the right word, Oh it's "whole lot of "shaking" going on." Now "that" we do have...I just had to jump in on that Mike...hope it's ok..!

________
Harry

 

[PastorMike]

Hi PastorMike,

Who wrote that song, "theres a whole lot of confusion going on" by Jerry Lee Lewis in 1957...hmmm..! confusion don't seem like the right word, Oh it's "whole lot of "shaking" going on." Now "that" we do have...I just had to jump in on that Mike...hope it's ok..!

________
Harry

No problem bro...

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Now I am confused, you are the one who mentioned Joseph Prince and I replied about Joseph Prince...

Then you went on to discuss faith and I discussed faith and you are confused... and so am I ...

Ha! Ok, now I understand. My point was (perhaps not so) simply that Joseph brought Grace back with faith center stage. But I see you posts connection to mine. Tells you just how busy and frazzled I've been of late.

 

[CindyisHis]

You know Bob, if our faith sometimes doesn't appear to be working, many times Christians think that we need "huge" faith...Jesus took care of that in Matt 17:20, when he said, "if your faith is only the size of a mustard seed, nothing would be impossible to you." (Nothing)...That is quite a revelation, and that's even mountain moving faith...too many times we concentrate on the faith side and not working on the unbelief side...In that same passage of Matt 17:20, in a sense, Jesus was saying, "Guys, it's not that you didn't believe...It's that your unbelief negated your faith.." A person can believe and disbelieve at the same time...It's just one will negate the other...I'm sure we have all heard Wommack's analogy of the team of horses pulling a wagon with no problem, but if you hook up another equal team of horses up to the other side of the wagon, and had them pulling at the same time in opposite directions, the net effect would be zero...same as belief and unbelief, they are (both) there, but one would negate the other...when the man said, "I believe, but help my unbelief," now that's a needed teaching we don't hear about much...We can continue working on developing and releasing our faith, but we need to also starve our unbelief...and not feeding it...make sense? Just thought I would add...

Wommack stated that, "we don't really have a faith problem...what we really have is an unbelief problem...more belief, less unbelief...

Greater works...
_____________
Harry

Could the key be to hold fast and be immovable?

For instance, one speaks to a mountain of debt to be moved. He knows Jesus is his kinsman Redeemer. He knows the Lord wants him to prosper. He knows there is power in his words.
.
.
.
.
Need he say more?

He spoke to the mountain.
.
.
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I'm placing the periods there on purpose to illustrate what should be happening in his heart and mind after he has been moved by the Word of God to speak to the mountain. Mmmmm, having a united heart and mind is powerful. With the heart man believes. It's the mind that must be renewed. So during this process, this time of speaking to the mountain and "there it is", the answered prayer, he must continue to feed his faith because all the while the devil will taunt with, "Well, where is the promise? See, you're still getting that bill." But the righteous man is fixed, not being moved by an evil report, or by what he sees. He knows spiritual things are unseen. He knows the Lord will not fail him. He knows he has the authority to speak to that mountain of debt and it MUST move. And he rests. He spoke once and he rests.
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Be steadfast and immovable. Get time out of mind. Time pertains to this life, and we are dealing with the supernatural.

Be steadfast and immovable.

Only be moved by the Word and the Spirit, which always agree.

 

[pk4yahweh]

Very good post, pk. I only disagree if you are saying that we have all the faith we'll ever be given (see my response to PastorMike here).

But I agree wholeheartedly that we have been given a measure of faith, and at times we all simply do not use it to its fullest. Much of it just sits there crying out "Use me!! Use me!!"

Definitely interested in doing some digging into what you replied to Mike on this. Been super busy these past couple of months... but I would like to discuss this further in the not too distant future!

 

[Shepherd1]

Could the key be to hold fast and be immovable?

For instance, one speaks to a mountain of debt to be moved. He knows Jesus is his kinsman Redeemer. He knows the Lord wants him to prosper. He knows there is power in his words.
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Need he say more?

He spoke to the mountain.
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I'm placing the periods there on purpose to illustrate what should be happening in his heart and mind after he has been moved by the Word of God to speak to the mountain. Mmmmm, having a united heart and mind is powerful. With the heart man believes. It's the mind that must be renewed. So during this process, this time of speaking to the mountain and "there it is", the answered prayer, he must continue to feed his faith because all the while the devil will taunt with, "Well, where is the promise? See, you're still getting that bill." But the righteous man is fixed, not being moved by an evil report, or by what he sees. He knows spiritual things are unseen. He knows the Lord will not fail him. He knows he has the authority to speak to that mountain of debt and it MUST move. And he rests. He spoke once and he rests.
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Be steadfast and immovable. Get time out of mind. Time pertains to this life, and we are dealing with the supernatural.

Be steadfast and immovable.

Only be moved by the Word and the Spirit, which always agree.

Very powerfully anointed words here dear Cindy! God wants us all to know of His unfailing love for us and if He says in His word that He will do it - then He will do it. It's as simple as that Amen!

The key is that He will do it.

Hebrews 12:1-2 NKJV "Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God."

And look at the New Life Version lol:

"All these many people who have had faith in God are around us like a cloud. Let us put every thing out of our lives that keeps us from doing what we should. Let us keep running in the race that God has planned for us. Let us keep looking to Jesus. Our faith comes from Him and He is the One Who makes it perfect. He did not give up when He had to suffer shame and die on a cross. He knew of the joy that would be His later. Now He is sitting at the right side of God."

He is the Alpha and the Omega... the Beginning and the End...

Therefore, IT IS FINISHED hallelujah!

 

[Hishandmaiden]

I like Joseph prince and his teaching, and I am privileged to attend a few of his sermons in his church, and am richly blessed by them.
But I always take everything he says with a pinch of salt.
There are times when I disagree with his teachings.