• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

The best evidence for Creationism

Status
Not open for further replies.

Wiccan_Child

Contributor
Mar 21, 2005
19,419
673
Bristol, UK
✟46,731.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
I disagree that any creationist actually interprets Genesis literally, they do a surface read and don't put any more effort into it than that, while this is fine for a lay believer who is more interested in the cross, for someone who centers their apologia around origins you would hope that they would investigate deeper into the cultural context and strong imagery in the narrative, both of which are essential imo to a literal reading of Genesis.
You would hope, but they don't. Despite the internal and external contradictions that arise from a literal interpretation, they do it anyway. For some reason, they think Christianity depends on it.
 
Upvote 0

Keachian

On Sabbatical
Feb 3, 2010
7,096
331
36
Horse-lie-down
Visit site
✟31,352.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
You would hope, but they don't. Despite the internal and external contradictions that arise from a literal interpretation, they do it anyway. For some reason, they think Christianity depends on it.

Well, I think it's sort of understandable, for protestantism in general it's Bible first, when I believe very strongly that the Bible tells us to be Christ first people. I'm also of the opinion that it does hurt their witness, you're hardly going to be swayed by someone on the internet saying the same things over and over again that you've shown to be false regardless of whether they're talking about what they've said over and over again or something completely different.
 
Upvote 0

Wiccan_Child

Contributor
Mar 21, 2005
19,419
673
Bristol, UK
✟46,731.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Well, I think it's sort of understandable, for protestantism in general it's Bible first, when I believe very strongly that the Bible tells us to be Christ first people.
Well, if the Bible tells you to put Christ first, in a sense you're putting the Bible first to put Christ first - but I would never be that pedantic :p

I'm also of the opinion that it does hurt their witness, you're hardly going to be swayed by someone on the internet saying the same things over and over again that you've shown to be false regardless of whether they're talking about what they've said over and over again or something completely different.
True. I do hold out hope, and have been occasionally successful, that people can be convinced by calm, civil, rational discourse. Even Kent Hovind can be swayed!

Potholer and Hovind Come Together (Not like that!) - YouTube
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,281
8,501
Milwaukee
✟411,038.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
..There has never been one single case of one species changing into another...]

There are cases of new species developing. But lets not tie species to "Kinds" because they are not the same, and because "species" has a handful of Daffy-nitions.

Other than that, good points. :amen:
 
Upvote 0

Split Rock

Conflation of Blathers
Nov 3, 2003
17,607
730
North Dakota
✟22,466.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
There are cases of new species developing. But lets not tie species to "Kinds" because they are not the same, and because "species" has a handful of Daffy-nitions.

Other than that, good points. :amen:

I'm sure you can give us a "Daffy-nition" of Kind.... right?
 
Upvote 0

USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
Site Supporter
Dec 25, 2003
42,070
16,820
Dallas
✟918,891.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
I'm sure you can give us a "Daffy-nition" of Kind.... right?

He's posted some dictionary definition of kinds at least twice that defines "kinds" as everything from sub-species to order.

Of course the problem with any "kinds" defintion that is so elastic it encompasses anything from sub-species to even phylum is not that is elastic per se, but that it utterly lacks any explanatory value especially with regard to the question of why the taxa/clades they point at and say "this is a kind" aren't related to every other taxon/clade via common ancestry.

They just don't understand that saying all "X" are "X" doesn't explain how or why all "X's" aren't "Y's" when they have/share all the characteristics that make them Y as well.
 
Upvote 0

Norman321

Member
May 18, 2012
393
5
✟564.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
I don't think many people are calling god a liar. I do call creationists liars. And all the prietsts, pastors, rabbis, immams, popes and other clergy. There is no god, so he canr't be a liar. The liars are the ones who utter creationist nonsens hiding behind an imaginary god.
Science is not a liar? People are people, does science not teach you that much? Of I forgot, science does not even know what a soul is. So science does not really know what makes us an individual. They do not know where you go to find personality. The only way science knows that you lie is because normal people need to invest a lot of energy in a lie and if you hook up a feedback machine it will light up like a christmas tree from all the energy needed to create a lie.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,281
8,501
Milwaukee
✟411,038.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
He's posted some dictionary definition of kinds at least twice that defines "kinds" as everything from sub-species to order.

Of course the problem with any "kinds" defintion that is so elastic it encompasses anything from sub-species to even phylum is not that is elastic per se, but that it utterly lacks any explanatory value especially with regard to the question of why the taxa/clades they point at and say "this is a kind" aren't related to every other taxon/clade via common ancestry.

They just don't understand that saying all "X" are "X" doesn't explain how or why all "X's" aren't "Y's" when they have/share all the characteristics that make them Y as well.

When I'm quoting, it's not from a biology book written last week.
I'm quoting from a book that does use generalizations so that
the common illiterate can understand the concepts.
"Kinds" are groups that are different. There are commonalities
between them.
 
Upvote 0

Wiccan_Child

Contributor
Mar 21, 2005
19,419
673
Bristol, UK
✟46,731.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Science is not a liar? People are people, does science not teach you that much? Of I forgot, science does not even know what a soul is.
Because a) the people who claim souls exist haven't defined it, and b) people who claim souls exist haven't presented any evidence for it. Science doesn't know what kind of dinosaur Nessie is either - but the failing isn't due to science, my friend.

So science does not really know what makes us an individual. They do not know where you go to find personality.
Sure we do: your brain. Countless documented cases of changes to the brain show changes to personality, memory, tastes, desires, etc.

The only way science knows that you lie is because normal people need to invest a lot of energy in a lie and if you hook up a feedback machine it will light up like a christmas tree from all the energy needed to create a lie.
Speak for yourself - just because you're bad at lying doesn't mean we all are.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,281
8,501
Milwaukee
✟411,038.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Scientific 'laws' are theories. The word 'law' is used for historic reasons; it does not connote a level of certainty above 'theory', especially not absolute certainty.

Really? We can't get higher than Absolute? I am not worthy to read such words. :bow: WC


A law is a theory that has not been broken or proven wrong up to that point.
Until a law of nature is broken, it remains a law rather than a theory.
Usually, a "law" of nature is upheld even in the face of conflicting
results because the "violation" is not well understood. There needs to be
a variety of "violations" to be able to understand the problem so that
the law may need to be refined.
Scientific Hypothesis, Theory, Law Definitions
 
Upvote 0

Norman321

Member
May 18, 2012
393
5
✟564.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Speak for yourself - just because you're bad at lying doesn't mean we all are.
Do you want me to put you on my ignore list also for showing a lack of respect? We were having a conversation about the lie detector test that your employer is allowed to require you to take.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,281
8,501
Milwaukee
✟411,038.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Whoah, let's slow down here and not make false dichotomies. If we believe the Bible's primary purpose is to recount history from creation through to revelation then where's the stuff about the here and now? .....

Good point. Let's check.
Please speak up when you read about God's plan for
Natural selection used to Create a real man.
Please raise your hand high when you see it.

Hosea 3:1 The LORD said to me, "Go, show your love to your wife ...
The LORD said to me, "Go, show your love to your wife again, though she
is loved by another and is an adulteress. Love her as the ...
//bible.cc/hosea/3-1.htm - 16k

1 John 2:15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If ...
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves
the world, the love of the Father is not in him. ...
//bible.cc/1_john/2-15.htm - 17k

1 John 5:2 This is how we know that we love the children of God ...
This is how we know that we love the children of God:
by loving God and carrying out his commands. ...
//bible.cc/1_john/5-2.htm - 17k

1 Corinthians 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy ...
..... Love is patient, love is kind. ... Love is patient and kind. ...
//bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-4.htm - 17k

1 John 4:7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes ...
Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. ... Dear friends,
let us continue to love one another, for love comes from God. ...
//bible.cc/1_john/4-7.htm - 17k

1 Peter 1:22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the ...
Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere
love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart. ...
//bible.cc/1_peter/1-22.htm - 17k

1 John 4:12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another ...
No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God
lives in us and his love is made complete in us. ...
//bible.cc/1_john/4-12.htm - 17k

1 Thessalonians 4:9 Now about brotherly love we do not need to ...
Now about brotherly love we do not need to write to you, for you
yourselves have been taught by God to love each other. ...
//bible.cc/1_thessalonians/4-9.htm - 17k

John 13:34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have ...
"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love
one another. ... So now I am giving you a new commandment: Love each other. ...
//bible.cc/john/13-34.htm - 16k

John 15:10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love ...
If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have
obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love. ...
//bible.cc/john/15-10.htm - 16k

Mark 12:33 To love him with all your heart, with all your ...
To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength,
and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt ...
//bible.cc/mark/12-33.htm - 18k

Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is ...
Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. ...
Love does no wrong to others, so love fulfills the requirements of God's law. ...
//bible.cc/romans/13-10.htm - 16k



Anything yet?
 
Upvote 0

Wiccan_Child

Contributor
Mar 21, 2005
19,419
673
Bristol, UK
✟46,731.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Do you want me to put you on my ignore list also for showing a lack of respect?
I said you were bad at lying. How is that showing a lack of respect? Are you, in fact, particularly proud of your aptitude for lying? Isn't a poor ability to lie indicative of an honest life?

We were having a conversation about the lie detector test that your employer is allowed to require you to take.
Fortunately, the posts are there for all to see, and there was no such conversation. Your post was in reply to driewerf, who was in turn responding to Darla1215. No one mentioned lie-detector tests, let alone ones that employers require anyone to take.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,281
8,501
Milwaukee
✟411,038.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I disagree that any creationist actually interprets Genesis literally, they do a surface read and don't put any more effort into it than that, while this is fine for a lay believer who is more interested in the cross, for someone who centers their apologia around origins you would hope that they would investigate deeper into the cultural context and strong imagery in the narrative, both of which are essential imo to a literal reading of Genesis.

You can ignore all the facts you want. I suggest you show your research.

Definition for creationist:
Web definitions:
(creationism) the literal belief in the account of Creation given in the Book of Genesis; "creationism denies the theory of...

cre·a·tion·ism   [kree-ey-shuh-niz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
the doctrine that matter and all things were created, substantially as they now exist, by an omnipotent Creator, and not gradually evolved or developed.
2.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) the doctrine that the true story of the creation of the universe is as it is recounted in the Bible, especially in the first chapter of Genesis.
3.
the doctrine that God immediately creates out of nothing a new human soul for each individual born.Creationism | Define Creationism at Dictionary.com


So you ACTUALLY disagree with the definition of Creationist.
That's an amazingly strong argument to make. Don't get me
wrong, I admire the rebels!
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,281
8,501
Milwaukee
✟411,038.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Who created the creator?


In the natural world, everything has a source or a cause.
Which proves that there must be a first-cause which must be super-natural.
Science proves a super natural source for existence, and Jesus explained who that was. :)
 
Upvote 0

Wiccan_Child

Contributor
Mar 21, 2005
19,419
673
Bristol, UK
✟46,731.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Really? We can't get higher than Absolute? I am not worthy to read such words. :bow: WC
The point was that laws do not denote absolute certainty, and they do not denote a level of certainty above theory. Though I can see why you would be confused and think I was talking about 'above absolute certainty'.

A law is a theory that has not been broken or proven wrong up to that point.
Until a law of nature is broken, it remains a law rather than a theory.
Usually, a "law" of nature is upheld even in the face of conflicting
results because the "violation" is not well understood. There needs to be
a variety of "violations" to be able to understand the problem so that
the law may need to be refined.
Scientific Hypothesis, Theory, Law Definitions
Looking at the definitions for 'theory' and 'law', there is no effective difference, except an emphasis that laws can be expressed in concise mathematical one-liners and are particularly tenacious.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,281
8,501
Milwaukee
✟411,038.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I don't think many people are calling god a liar. I do call creationists liars. And all the prietsts, pastors, rabbis, immams, popes and other clergy. There is no god, so he canr't be a liar. The liars are the ones who utter creationist nonsens hiding behind an imaginary god.

Everything has a cause or source. We exist. Life exists. To ignore existence with no clear reason for it is the lie.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.