Is contextual understanding a core value of Messianic Judaism?

[The Templar]

That's what I thought. ModFlame eh?

No flame intended.
Sorry if you took it that way.

 

[anisavta]

I guess the words mad and dog sometimes stir up not - lets just say - happy thoughts. My bad.

 

[mishkan]

You may wish to address your debate on the the definition of terms with Noah Webster.
I choose to use the English language the way that is proper,
which I suspect is what most people will also choose.
Have a nice day on the Mad Dog forum!

Curious. Are we supposed to be impressed by this level of discourse? You can't argue against the clear case for a proper historical-grammatical hermeneutic, so you attempt to obfuscate the issue through semantic wranglings that would make an onion cry.

Then, to demonstrate your sincere Christian love you mock the concept of the "Tabernacle of David" by turning it into a negatice epithet.

Oh, well. Yeshua took worse from the Roman government. I guess I can take a slur, or two.

 

[anisavta]

As you wish.

 

[Chaplain David]

Presumably it is the Moderators' name for us. Glad their keyboard was not programmed to write the letters of the first two words back to front!

Nonsense and if it were by chance true, I'd be first to get the person put on report.

 

[Avodat]

Nonsense and if it were by chance true, I'd be first to get the person put on report.

Perhaps, then, you could ask the Mod involved to tell us just what he meant by the 'Mad Dog Gang'. It doesn't sound very friendly.

 

[Chaplain David]

Perhaps, then, you could ask the Mod involved to tell us just what he meant by the 'Mad Dog Gang'. It doesn't sound very friendly.

I thought it had something to do with Mad Dogs and Englishmen - and I will ask him but have at it, you can ask him too. It's really time people get settled down around here.

 

[Jerushabelle]

Another fine example of quality dialog. Thank you for sharing your Christian thoughts.

I do beg your pardon. Let me clarify so you understand. "I'm just trying to wrap my head around that." means I'm just trying to understand what you're saying. I fail to see the need to demean my question as being less than quality dialogue in your opinion.

 

[Jerushabelle]

I'm also sure it is scary to realize you've lost control you thought you had.

What are you talking about?

 

[Avodat]

I thought it had something to do with Mad Dogs and Englishmen - and I will ask him but have at it, you can ask him too. It's really time people get settled down around here.

He was asked and gave no direct response - just hedged round it. Don't really expect Mods to behave like that when we are being told by them to behave better :o

 

[Jerushabelle]

I thought it had something to do with Mad Dogs and Englishmen - and I will ask him but have at it, you can ask him too. It's really time people get settled down around here.

By Noel Coward? Really? I didn't have a clue! LOL

 

[Chaplain David]

CHAPLAIN"S NOTICE

Let's everyone settle down and have a productive thread, staying on topic and treating each other kindly and with respect. Thank you.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

If I were in the construction trade, a specialized in building basements with a cement foundation, my core value might be to build the best cement foundations and basements, using only the best materials, so that the basement will withstand typical environmental issues and be standing, supporting, into the next century. (My basements will be foundationally solid when the calendar says 2100+).

The tools I use include a cement mixer, a back hoe, etc. Now, every cement foundation and basement builder uses a cement mixer and a back hoe. Those are the tools of the trade, and not the core value. Those who build roads, driveways and sidewalks of cement also use a cement mixer and a back hoe, but their core value is different.

Historical, cultural hermenteutics is a standard tool used in Messianic Judaism and much of Christianity. The UMJC is a Messianic Judaism union of congregations. Therefore their core value is geared towards their mission of being a congregational union of Messianic Judaism congregations. The method of Hermeneutics is a tool to help accomplish some of the goals in their core values.


Core values statement Yeshua, by virtue of His atoning death and bodily resurrection, has provided the atonement for our sins. The congregations of the UMJC are committed to bringing this message to our people so that they too may believe in Yeshua and find the peace with God promised by our prophets for Israel and all humanity.

At our founding in 1979, we listed five organizational objectives:

• To further the initiation, establishment, and growth of Messianic Jewish Congregations worldwide.
• To be a voice for Messianic Jewish Congregations and Messianic Judaism worldwide.
• To provide a forum for the discussion of issues relevant to Messianic Judaism and Messianic Jewish Congregations.
• To aid in the causes of our Jewish people worldwide, especially in Israel.
• To support the training of Messianic Leaders.

We summarize these objectives in a simple statement of our mission:
To establish, strengthen, and multiply congregations for Yeshua within the house of Israel.



Core Values


In pursuing this vision, and the more specific objectives and standards articulated in our by-laws, we hold to these core values

1. Unity in diversity

• The UMJC represents diverse congregations united in our commitment to the authority of Scripture as the Word of God, the ongoing significance of the Torah for Jewish life, and the centrality of Yeshua as Lord and Messiah. Deference and respect are key elements in our fellowship.

1. Community relationships

• As a movement for Yeshua within the house of Israel, we stand in solidarity with the larger Jewish community, including the state of Israel. We are committed to the continuity of the Jewish people and to participation in our common tradition.

• As a movement for Yeshua, we also value and affirm our place within the entire community of Messiah and are committed to its genuine unity.

1. Congregational success

• The local congregation is foundational to Messianic Judaism. Therefore, we are committed to the success of our member congregations as places where Jewish people can encounter Yeshua as Messiah and live for him as Jews.

1. Organizational integrity

• We seek to develop and apply biblically rooted standards of integrity and accountability in all that we do as an organization, and to foster them in the polity of each of our member congregations.

1. Dignity and inclusion

• We recognize that all people are made in the image of God and therefore will endeavor to treat them with respect.

• We warmly welcome into our midst all who embrace our vision and core values and are committed to the success of our efforts.

Contextual understanding is always a key thing to value whenever studying scripture...and that requires knowledge of history, archeology, documents and reference. The only real issue--as you've often noted--is that one still may be biased to seeing what they wish to see in history...or not realizing that people can study the same materials and still differ in certain viewpoints. Ultimately, as no one was there fully for all events back in the day, there are some things which require a level of speculation at some point---but other things may not.

 

[Chaplain David]

David the problem is - this latest skirmish was started by one of the moderators. This behavior should be unacceptable. And for others to fan the flame IMO just trying to start a fight is also unacceptable. Perhaps the mod in question (and I hope this has already been done) should be put on time out or banned from forums he finds to be easy pickings. And Belle fanning the flame only hurts you in the long run.

The MJ forum gets hurt in the short and long run. I stick by my Chaplains Notice. As has been repeatedly said (or at least a few times, things happen in background by our staff that take care of any problems that we have. I'm not happy about what's happened to this thread in the last couple of pages. I'm going to close it temporarily until our powers that be have a chance to sort it out. Sorry to have to close it but we can't have people going around being snarky with each other regardless of who is right, wrong, who started it, who finished it, etc. Someone in the admin department will either reopen the thread or keep it closed. But for now, I'm closing it so there's no more sword play.

Shalom, David

 

[Chaplain David]

chaplain's Hat On

This Thread Is Closed For Staff Review Which May Also Include A Thread Cleanup. It Will Be Reopened If It Is Deemed Appropriate. God Bless Everyone.

chaplain's Hat Off

 

[Chaplain David]

Deleting for possible permanent review or cleanup. A lot of flames and nasty posting in it.

 

[Tishri1]

mod hat

thread clean up done

behave now y'all

 

[HolySpiritWOF2]

Is the understanding of the Hebraic, Historic and Cultural context of scripture (from multiple sources) a core value of Messianic Judaism?

This is a YES or NO poll.

Please state your view and give examples to support your view.
Please do not debate the answers of others.

* I suppose some rules are meant to be ignored.

glad to see that the poll indicates 87% say yes.... i voted yes.... not sure if my pro-MJ vote counts.... i see that a lot of misunderstandings/misinterpretations by christians of the TANAKH and B'RIT HADASHAH is due to... NOT understanding the "Hebraic, Historic and Cultural context of scripture (from multiple sources)"....

i'm in your house - specifically the TORAH forum - to get that understanding.... soooo glad that 87% of you feel that this context is important....

shalom shalom....

 

[Qnts2]

glad to see that the poll indicates 87% say yes.... i voted yes.... not sure if my pro-MJ vote counts.... i see that a lot of misunderstandings/misinterpretations by christians of the TANAKH and B'RIT HADASHAH is due to... NOT understanding the "Hebraic, Historic and Cultural context of scripture (from multiple sources)"....

i'm in your house - specifically the TORAH forum - to get that understanding.... soooo glad that 87% of you feel that this context is important....

shalom shalom....

Just to give a different understanding. Messianic Judaism was formed by Jewish believers for Jewish believers to worship in a culturally Jewish way, and to share the gospel with their Jewish families.

Given that background, and that most Jewish people who grew up in Judaism were already trained in Judaism on the Torah, and grew up in a Jewish and Hebraic culture, that method of hermeneutics is not a core value. We already are aware of the history and culture, and are Hebraic.

While Messianic Judaism does share the Jewish roots of Christianity with Christians, I would not consider it a primary goal. Generally, Messianic Judaism views Christianity as the culturally Gentile expression of faith in Yeshua and Messianic Judaism is the Jewish expression of faith in Yeshua.

Messianic Judaism is opposed to replacement theology which is common in many churches. This is the view that the Church replaced physical Israel, and is now the Israel of God. Theologically, Messianic Judaism views Gods promises to Israel were firm, so all promises given to Israel, are still in effect.

 

[Chaplain David]

Just to give a different understanding. Messianic Judaism was formed by Jewish believers for Jewish believers to worship in a culturally Jewish way, and to share the gospel with their Jewish families.

Given that background, and that most Jewish people who grew up in Judaism were already trained in Judaism on the Torah, and grew up in a Jewish and Hebraic culture, that method of hermeneutics is not a core value. We already are aware of the history and culture, and are Hebraic.

While Messianic Judaism does share the Jewish roots of Christianity with Christians, I would not consider it a primary goal. Generally, Messianic Judaism views Christianity as the culturally Gentile expression of faith in Yeshua and Messianic Judaism is the Jewish expression of faith in Yeshua.

Messianic Judaism is opposed to replacement theology which is common in many churches. This is the view that the Church replaced physical Israel, and is now the Israel of God. Theologically, Messianic Judaism views Gods promises to Israel were firm, so all promises given to Israel, are still in effect.

Hello Qnts2,

Are your opinions about how MJ got started and it's workings written somewhere (text, commentary, theology book, etc., consensus of your study group or organizational affiliation) or is it based on your experience? Do you think others would disagree with the above?

Shalom