Atheism. What are your thoughts?

[someguy14]

I ask again, how do you know?

Again, why won't you answer me? How do you know that your religion is the one true religion?

-Atheist Alan

Test it for yourself.
If you are truely interested in finding out, study it. Test it. No holds bar, no discrimination enthusiasm to find the truth about this so called Bible. Believe what you read, don't be afraid. That is how you test it. Dive right in. If you truely believe it and test it, study it, and relate to your daily life, thank God, believe that He is watching you, accept the joy He gives to you, you will know that He is real and loves you very much.

 

[AtheistAlan]

Obviously you aren't a scientist in search of proving nor disproving the Bible. It makes no claims that are not correct ( experts would be all over the world touting such news! ) But that's ok... moving along.

Insects do not have four feet. -Lev 11:21

Rabbits do not chew cud. -Lev 11:6

Snails do not melt. -Psalm 58:8

The Earth is not flat. -Psalm 58:8 -Revelation 7:1 -Daniel 4:10-11

The Earth is not motionless. -Psalms 104:5 -1 Chronicles 16:30

The moon is not a light. -Genesis 1:16

Our sun is not the same age as the rest of the stars. -Genesis 1:16

Some of the arguments have no bearing upon my beliefs nor my salvation, which if I were someone without God, would be my first priority... just in case I as wrong about no after life, you know?

Anyway, a few thoughts.
Actually, some vaccinations are deadly to me. How do I fit into your scenario that they are safe across the board?

Young Earthers? Well, what if the premise is true for all creation, that God created man fully born, with the appearance of age... so perhaps it could be that God created earth, plants, etc with the appearance of age, without having to go through growing process initially. It appears to me to be unprovable either way...completely... why bother with it?

Geocentrism... hmm did the Hubble scientists (or equally magnificently intelligent ones) just publish something about how as they realize the universe is expanding, that just perhaps that our solar system---or was it earth itself?-- just could be the very center? Oh well, it's something that can't be disproven for we don't have all the data... and yes, in some ways the sun does rotate around the earth... guess it depends upon one's perspective doesn't it?

I think that's what you're dealing with... inability to consider other's perspectives...and most of all, GOD ALMIGHTY's perspective. What if He really does exist, wouldn't you want to know that and consider that?[/QUOTE]

We have considered it, and have found no evidence for it.

And if he does exist, he has a lot in which to answer.

-Atheist Alan

 

[AtheistAlan]

Test it for yourself.
If you are truely interested in finding out, study it. Test it. No holds bar, no discrimination enthusiasm to find the truth about this so called Bible. Believe what you read, don't be afraid. That is how you test it. Dive right in. If you truely believe it and test it, study it, and relate to your daily life, thank God, believe that He is watching you, accept the joy He gives to you, you will know that He is real and loves you very much.

I did dive right on in. I was a believer in god for many years. I volunteered to go to church when nobody else in my family wanted to go. This is why I'm now an atheist.

Again, how do you know that your religion is not the one true religion? Why don't you convert to Islam, and dive right on in and discover their truths?

-Atheist Alan

 

[someguy14]

I did dive right on in. I was a believer in god for many years. I volunteered to go to church when nobody else in my family wanted to go. This is why I'm now an atheist.

Again, how do you know that your religion is not the one true religion? Why don't you convert to Islam, and dive right on in and discover their truths?

-Atheist Alan

I knew there was a connection. Perhaps unseen currently. I don't enjoy being obligated or expected to go to places on many occasions. I prefer to follow where Im encouraged to go, hard as that may seem, or far fetched, I trust that God will guide me.

I have dove right in on Islam and don't find fornicating with 72 virgins to be about God, merely a mankind lust.
How do I know that my religion is not the one true religion?
Perhaps your asking how come I've decided that "my religion" is the one?
The word religion has obviously been diluted throughout time. I believe in God. Now how that relates to religion, I suppose I would have to get a better grasp on the term religion. Religion just means a faithful belief perhaps. I believe in love. Love for one another and love for the one that created all goodness. Saying that love is wrong, doesnt calculate accurately with me.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

The Bible says, thou shalt not kill, do you disagree with that? I don't.

The Qu'ran says get 72 virgins for some deed to Allah. Do you agree with that? I don't.

The Bible says love thy neighbor as thyself. Do you agree with that? I agree with that.

The Bible says that those that are suffering wrongfully will be avenged. Do you agree with that? I agree with that.

You've cherry-picked your verses to make the Bible look wholesome and unconditionally good, and the Qu'ran look self-centred. I can do the same. Ahem:

The Bible says, "If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads" (Leviticus 20:13). Do you agree with that? I don't.

The Bible says, "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet" (1 Timothy 2:12). Do you agree with that? I don't.

The Bible says, "If a priest’s daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire" (Leviticus 21:9). Do you agree with that? I don't.

Meanwhile, the Qur'an says, "The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto; but if a person forgives and makes peace, his reward rests with God; He loves not those who do wrong" (42:40). Do you agree with that? I do.

The Qur'an says, "Never let your enmity for anyone lead you into the sin of deviating from justice. Always be just: that is closest to being God-fearing." (5:8). Do you agree with that? I do.

The Qur'an says, "The true servants of the Most Merciful are those who behave gently and with humility on earth, and whenever the foolish quarrel with them, they reply with [words of] peace". (25:63). Do you agree with that? I do.

So, yes, you've cherry-picked.

No matter how much another disagrees with The Bible, the fact is, that it is good, and inwardly they agree with The Bible, or they are murderers, thiefs, fornicators and lost. The Bible teaches to do good to one another. Any against that must be promoting evil and the downfall of all humanity with hatred.

You're making a false dichotomy. One can disbelieve the Bible without rejecting everything in it. We can say "Don't kill" without believing in the Bible.

 

[someguy14]

What did your statement "a tree is a tree" have to do with your point?


My point is that tautologies don't say anything of consequence about reality. They merely affirm that whatever a thing is, it is.

The point is that truth is truth. An elephant is an elephant and a tiger is a tiger.

Of course it is. There is no other kind of truth. None whatsoever.

That is where it requires faith. Faith in God. God created all things, but the things that perish are not eternal things. We have each witnessed that the world perishes. The world perishes because it is not perfect. God is perfect. All that is against God perishes. Super Nova, for example. God is eternal and offers all of us a chance to accept that eternal. Perishing things suffer pain, some greater some less, perhaps. With God, pain doesn't exist because pain has to do with death. Where death does not exist, pain does not exist, time does not exist, only goodness. All desire that. It is written inside of each of His own creations. Though that is not obtainable without the one that created it. Fear leads to wisdom. Fear of God leads to eternal wisdom, wisdom that overcomes every other wisdom, because it is eternal. Love is before the beginning of time and will remain after time, because love is eternal. It is real, and can be showed by deeds, though it's fullness is invisable, yet you and I know that it exists. It is pure, not desiring fleshly things that perish, rather desiring the eternal that do not perish. It is good. It is joy. It isn't boring as some may carelessly blurt out. It is new, always. It comforts us. It guides us. It protects us. It shows all knowledge of every purpose. It encourages us. It is good.

 

[someguy14]

Insects do not have four feet. -Lev 11:21

Crawl. Leaping as crawling? At least 4. Consider.

Rabbits do not chew cud. -Lev 11:6

Rabbits eats grass.

Snails do not melt. -Psalm 58:8

Snails leave a slime(mucus), similar to melting. So melt, yes.

The Earth is not flat. -Psalm 58:8 -Revelation 7:1 -Daniel 4:10-11

Four corners. North east south... well you get the idea.

The Earth is not motionless. -Psalms 104:5 -1 Chronicles 16:30

Ha, funny. It is stable, unless your grasping to hang on from getting twirled into space.

The moon is not a light. -Genesis 1:16

The moon is a light in the night sky from the reflection of the sun.

Our sun is not the same age as the rest of the stars. -Genesis 1:16

He made also the stars. Of course He made all things. When you get to a star, let's discuss.

Maybe you decided we wouldnt want to reference. As we have discovered though, The Bible remains true.

 

[someguy14]

We can say "Don't kill" without believing in the Bible.

Have you considered how you can say "don't kill"? With your mouth? How did you get that mouth? Your parents? Where did your parents come from? They're parents? Where did it start? Big bang? Where did a big bang happen? Space? Where did space come from?

 

[someguy14]

Meanwhile, the Qur'an says, "The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto; but if a person forgives and makes peace, his reward rests with God; He loves not those who do wrong" (42:40). Do you agree with that? I do.

An eye for an eye. Love thy neighbor as thyself.
Vengence belongs unto God.
A wiccan once said, if a wiccan puts a curse on somebody, that curse is rewarded that wiccan three fold.
The Qu'ran was written in about 600ad. And lopping off heads when Jesus said do not kill is actually in error and against Jesus teachings, whom they claim to be a prophet from God.

God is very merciful and knows the hearts of every creature and just in His judgement, so that is for God alone to judge. We are taught to love one another and be merciful.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Have you considered how you can say "don't kill"? With your mouth? How did you get that mouth? Your parents? Where did your parents come from? They're parents? Where did it start? Big bang? Where did a big bang happen? Space? Where did space come from?

First, with regards to the topic, it doesn't matter whether the universe was poofed into being by God or its origins are wholly natural. You seem to be dodging the issue.

Second, yes, I have considered it. All the evidence points to natural causes stretching back to the Big Bang, and no evidence suggests any divine intervention along the way. And even if God did have a direct hand in it, would that invalidate my ability to say, "I don't believe in the Bible"?

An eye for an eye. Love thy neighbor as thyself.
Vengence belongs unto God.
A wiccan once said, if a wiccan puts a curse on somebody, that curse is rewarded that wiccan three fold.
The Qu'ran was written in about 600ad. And lopping off heads when Jesus said do not kill is actually in error and against Jesus teachings, whom they claim to be a prophet from God.

If killing people is against Jesus' teachings, one wonders why the Bible has a whole book of what transgressions are worthy of death.

God is very merciful and knows the hearts of every creature and just in His judgement, so that is for God alone to judge. We are taught to love one another and be merciful.

My point was that you deliberately cherry-picked verses out of context to make the Bible seem preferable to the Qur'an, when the exact same could be done vice versa.

 

[Davian]

Have you considered how you can say "don't kill"? With your mouth? How did you get that mouth? Your parents? Where did your parents come from? They're parents? Where did it start? Big bang? Where did a big bang happen? Space? Where did space come from?

Where did your "God" come from? Or are you just going to assert that "God" gets excused from this requirement? That argument fails every time.

 

[Asvin]

Where did your "God" come from? Or are you just going to assert that "God" gets excused from this requirement? That argument fails every time.

God is eternal, therefore never begins to exist, and does not need a cause. The universe is not eternal, therefore began to exist, and requires a cause, which is God.

 

[3rdHeaven]

First, I would like to be very clear. I'm not here to promote atheism. I am not here to answer questions about atheism, as that is clearly not allowed on these forums.

I had an entire thread deleted because I wanted to answer any questions about atheism, respectively, so that I can show that we are good, normal people like everyone else. I wanted to inform and educate about what, exactly, we are or are not. That is clearly not allowed. I was respectful the entire time. I even appealed, but I was denied that request. The reason given is that they do not allow "Ask a ___" for non-Christians. I did not post in a Christian only sub-forum category.

I am here to hear any conceptions you may have about atheism. I will then attempt to either confirm, correct, elaborate, or debate.

I am here to engage in stimulating conversation. I kindly request that everyone be respectful at all times. I thank everyone for their time and comments.

-Atheist Alan

Perhaps the disagreement lies in the first place you compare atheism to theism. You say atheists are good and normal like every one else. IMHO you build your model on a fallacy. many will claim NONE are good, not one, and the only real difference is we all need GOD. But if your an atheist you miss this as it is not rational to you.

I don't treat atheists any different then any one. Just because some one calls themselves a Christian or a "believer" means very little to me. It really all depends what kind of heart you have. It matters not what religious clothing you wear or what model you subscribe to or any of the sacraments. It's really not about works that much is for sure!

So if it's not about works, things you can do, see, hear, or not do. Then what is it about? I don't expect you to accept this as your model is void of any God. In which case I would say your model is void of any real substance. It is entirely based on works, in which case you do have more in common with a lot of "Christians" then you would like to admit

 

[Redac]

God is eternal, therefore never begins to exist, and does not need a cause. The universe is not eternal, therefore began to exist, and requires a cause, which is God.

Special pleading - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[SithDoughnut]

God is eternal, therefore never begins to exist, and does not need a cause. The universe is not eternal, therefore began to exist, and requires a cause, which is God.

The universe is not eternal? When did it begin? The earliest point I know of is the Big Bang, which can't have been the beginning seeing as it was an expansion of "stuff" that already existed.

 

[Asvin]

Special pleading - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What part about my belief in God is special pleading? I am believing in the Holy Bible, when it states that God is not created from or by anyone/anything. I am not special pleading because I know God personally, something that science can't test or prove, I must admit. That doesn't make my, or the beliefs of billions of people, false.

Take a look at this:

Who Created God? A Response to Dawkins - YouTube

Also, this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUxTz11K1Vc&feature=relmfu

 

[Eudaimonist]

God is eternal, therefore never begins to exist, and does not need a cause. The universe is not eternal, therefore began to exist, and requires a cause, which is God.

A flaw in this assertion is that the universe didn't necessarily "begin to exist", as if it popped into existence out of pure nothingness. It may always have existed in some form.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Wiccan_Child]

God is eternal, therefore never begins to exist, and does not need a cause.

And the universe can't because...?

The universe is not eternal, therefore began to exist,

Not necessarily. We know the Big Bang began at least 13.5 billion years ago, but there is no evidence to suggest the universe began with the Big Bang - it could be far older, or even eternal, for all we know.

and requires a cause,

Not necessarily. Causality isn't as robust as people like to think (qv. Quantum Mechanics).

which is God.

Not necessarily. What about natural causes? What about causes other than the Christian deity (Hinduism, anyone)?

 

[SithDoughnut]

What part about my belief in God is special pleading? I am believing in the Holy Bible, when it states that God is not created from or by anyone/anything. I am not special pleading because I know God personally, something that science can't test or prove, I must admit. That doesn't make my, or the beliefs of billions of people, false.

Nor does it make them true.

 

[Eudaimonist]

The point is that truth is truth. An elephant is an elephant and a tiger is a tiger.

And a non-existent God is a non-existent God.

We are in total agreement that an entity is whatever it happens to be. That doesn't really advance your argument. I'm not about to suggest that an elephant is a tiger, which would be absurd.

We have each witnessed that the world perishes. The world perishes because it is not perfect.

Change does not imply imperfection.

Where death does not exist, pain does not exist, time does not exist, only goodness. All desire that.

Not me. Existence without change? That sounds horrible.

Love is before the beginning of time

There is no "before" the beginning of time. You've just contradicted yourself, and we've agreed that contradictions don't exist, e.g., a tiger is a tiger, but not an elephant.


eudaimonia,

Mark