Different state past

[Mr Strawberry]

Oh my nonexistent gods... we are actually using acronyms for these crazy ideas now??

"The official DSP versus SSP debate thread"

nooooo! don't do that... you might make the crazies feel legitimate if you label it.
Remember what happened when someone used the word "creation SCIENCE"???? shudder.... we don't want a repeat of THAT mess!

I prefer a relabeling to "The official idiots versus reality thread"

Or we could use 'dad's fantasy past versus reality'. If we're going to use acronyms we might consider DUFUS or Dad's Unfeasibly Fouled Up Scenario. There are slight variations on this, but DUFUS seems to be a suitable shorthand for dad's position.

 

[dad]

Or we could use 'dad's fantasy past versus reality'. If we're going to use acronyms we might consider DUFUS or Dad's Unfeasibly Fouled Up Scenario. There are slight variations on this, but DUFUS seems to be a suitable shorthand for dad's position.

Reality is not limited to the present, or present laws. Present people are not all there is to the reality of the race either.

Perhaps including more than the present is a more balanced approach. Especially when weaving fables about the future or past.

It is obvious that godless science is unbalanced.

 

[dad]

I am the one using small minded circular thinking?
Are you even reading what you've written before posting?

I told you, science does not assume SSP.

This is a false assumption from your side.

I am certain you are wrong.

 

[dad]

Oh my nonexistent gods... we are actually using acronyms for these crazy ideas now??

"The official DSP versus SSP debate thread"

nooooo! don't do that... you might make the crazies feel legitimate if you label it.
Remember what happened when someone used the word "creation SCIENCE"???? shudder.... we don't want a repeat of THAT mess!

I prefer a relabeling to "The official idiots versus reality thread"

The famous DSP did not start in this thread.

 

[dad]

False. Just because they are the only records we have doesn't mean that their reports of long lives are true.

So you admit they are the only records we have. OK. Now what qualifies you to declare parts or all of them false or true?

Once again, the records may not be accurate.

They reflect basic realities of spirits and long lives. No more accuracy is required.

Ah, but you are CLAIMING that it illustrates a great truth.

One needs to look at bible claims, and other claims, as well as science claims. For things that you use to model the universe past and future and present, there must be the type of support you allude to. For simple men writing how it was at the dawn of history, we have other criteria.

 

[dad]

I'm too lazy to write out DSP and SSP every time.
Then again, I should be too lazy to respond to his posts...

And if you did respond, you might try to not be lazy in content also.

 

[Elendur]

I am certain you are wrong.

Yes, I'm aware of this.

But the fact doesn't change.

And if you did respond, you might try to not be lazy in content also.

I try to get to the source of things, my posts aren't lacking in content.

The source here is mainly you saying science assumes SSP. Which it doesn't.

Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[dad]

Yes, I'm aware of this.

But the fact doesn't change.

Does to..nya nya.

I try to get to the source of things, my posts aren't lacking in content.

The source here is mainly you saying science assumes SSP.

Of course the present is considered the key to the past. Ask a grown up.

 

[Elendur]

Of course the present is considered the key to the past. Ask a grown up.

... So...
You're saying I should ask a grown up...
And that they will answer that the present is the key to the past...
But you claim it isn't...

The only logical conclusion from that is:
You're not a grown up.

 

[Tiberius]

So you admit they are the only records we have. OK. Now what qualifies you to declare parts or all of them false or true?

Not just me, dad. I don't think there's anyone (other than you) you considers them to be true.

They reflect basic realities of spirits and long lives. No more accuracy is required.

How have you verified this?

One needs to look at bible claims, and other claims, as well as science claims. For things that you use to model the universe past and future and present, there must be the type of support you allude to. For simple men writing how it was at the dawn of history, we have other criteria.

Yeah, you just really really believe it as hard as you can, and there you go, it's passed the test.

 

[Farinata]

You have no choice but to take the observations of the records we do have and the spirits and long lives must be considered. Trying to grasp at straws of some later gods and legends involving spirits does nothing to alter that fact.

There is no alternative from science. They can't so much as detect a spirit if it sat on their head.

The legend of Etana, by ANY measure, predates the Bible by at least several hundred years (even given the incorrect view that the Exodus story transpired exactly as written and Moses authored the Pentateuch). Etana mentions gods, spirits, and supernatural occurrences. So why, if Etana is older than the bible, is the bible right when it comes to which gods/god to worship? Or right about which spirits are good/bad? You have no basis for saying that Etana, or the Greek account of the titanomachy, is wrong and the bible is right.

No. I am not saying they are right in precise lifespans. But their records go toward evidence that long lifespans existed! As for what particular spirit they worshiped or liked, that doesn't matter. I can tell you they were all bad. So? That doesn't make em less real.

Here's the way I see it: even today people report seeing ghosts, having visitations, alien abuductions, etc... yet none of these experiences have ever been credibly substantiated by a scientific experiment. I think the case is even easier for ancient people. Not to say they were stupid but they were very ignorant of the processes around them: volcanoes, lightning, droughts, earthquakes (thought to be the product of divine punishment rather than plate tectonics as late as the 16th century), plagues (no knowledge of germs). I can easily see ancient people trying to make sense of all this and using spirits and other superstitions to "fill in the gaps". Not to mention that the human mind is very excitable (e.g. Pareidolia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

No, you were ill informed to abandon ship. It is a good ship, and sailing on to eternity. Funny thing is, at various ports, it lets off passengers and usually picks em up again at a later time in another port. They come to realize that they had it wrong somehow, and that God was right and real all along.

Of course our destination is a different state port. The tour guides on board pass out brochures telling somewhat what the different state port of final call is like, so we can adjust well.

I very much doubt I'll ever rejoin the ranks. I'd rather not waste any more of my life waiting for a rapture and second coming that will never happen. We'll both be long dead and the dispensationalists will still be waiting for their tribulation. I only pity those people I used to attend church with, those who spend countless hours hoping for a complete fantasy and planning their entire lives around it. Such a waste.

 

[dad]

... So...
You're saying I should ask a grown up...
And that they will answer that the present is the key to the past...
But you claim it isn't...

The only logical conclusion from that is:
You're not a grown up.

So you didn't want to ask one. OK.

 

[dad]

Not just me, dad. I don't think there's anyone (other than you) you considers them to be true.

I don't. But i consider the only records man has as something one can glean the basic realities of life from.

How have you verified this?

No need. They record it. It fits with God's word. So it rocks.

Yeah, you just really really believe it as hard as you can, and there you go, it's passed the test.

That is what godless science does. I am here to flick them away.

 

[dad]

The legend of Etana, by ANY measure, predates the Bible by at least several hundred years (even given the incorrect view that the Exodus story transpired exactly as written and Moses authored the Pentateuch).

Show the dating basis. But remember that the record of God predates the ones first written on scrolls.

Etana mentions gods, spirits, and supernatural occurrences. So why, if Etana is older than the bible, is the bible right when it comes to which gods/god to worship?

You forgot to support your dates. Our record is older.

Or right about which spirits are good/bad? You have no basis for saying that Etana, or the Greek account of the titanomachy, is wrong and the bible is right.

Hey, bad spirits/good spirits, they still are spirits.

Here's the way I see it: even today people report seeing ghosts, having visitations, alien abuductions, etc... yet none of these experiences have ever been credibly substantiated by a scientific experiment.

Right. Science is absurdly weak and out of the loop. This is news?

I think the case is even easier for ancient people. Not to say they were stupid but they were very ignorant of the processes around them:

Proof??

volcanoes, lightning, droughts, earthquakes (thought to be the product of divine punishment rather than plate tectonics as late as the 16th century), plagues (no knowledge of germs).

Source for this claim?

I can easily see ancient people trying to make sense of all this and using spirits and other superstitions to "fill in the gaps". Not to mention that the human mind is very excitable (e.g. Pareidolia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

Blather.

I very much doubt I'll ever rejoin the ranks. I'd rather not waste any more of my life waiting for a rapture and second coming that will never happen.

Proof? How would you know Jesus was not coming as promised??

We'll both be long dead and the dispensationalists will still be waiting for their tribulation. I only pity those people I used to attend church with, those who spend countless hours hoping for a complete fantasy and planning their entire lives around it. Such a waste.

Well, if your church was hyped on some soon coming dates, then they were out of it. But remember even if it is not soon, we will be dead one day, and that meeting will have to take place.

 

[Elendur]

So you didn't want to ask one. OK.

You're really good at squirming, you know that?

You don't face critique, you ignore it.

End your strawman.

 

[dad]

You're really good at squirming, you know that?

You don't face critique, you ignore it.

End your strawman.

Let us all face your 'critique' Here...now....what ya got?

 

[Tiberius]

I don't. But i consider the only records man has as something one can glean the basic realities of life from.

You are mistaken if you think written accounts are the only records we have of the past.

No need. They record it. It fits with God's word. So it rocks.

In other words, "It agrees with what I've already decided to be true, so I'm just going to accept it!"

That is what godless science does. I am here to flick them away.

Oh yes. You're like a superhero in your own little comic book, aren't you? Here to destroy nasty science with your old legends!

 

[Elendur]

Let us all face your 'critique' Here...now....what ya got?

Again (what is it now, fifth time?):

You claim science assumes SSP.
You then criticize science because of your made up assumption.

It doesn't.
End your strawman.

 

[dad]

You are mistaken if you think written accounts are the only records we have of the past.

The only ones by observers who lived. If we want to include science evidence, then it agrees with a DSP also, of course. In NO way can any repeat any of it be cornered by your same state belief system.

In other words, "It agrees with what I've already decided to be true, so I'm just going to accept it!"

Wish I could dissuade you from that sort of thinking. It is wonderful to be open minded and inclusive.

Oh yes. You're like a superhero in your own little comic book, aren't you? Here to destroy nasty science with your old legends!

Just a voice in the wilderness for now. But a voice that meets the evidences in an amazing way.

 

[dad]

Again (what is it now, fifth time?):

You claim science assumes SSP.
You then criticize science because of your made up assumption.

It doesn't.
End your strawman.

False. Prove it.

Look at the examples I cited, drift, daughter isotopes, and evolving. The present processes are used as the measure. Obviously.