Should Christians touch?

[dayhiker]

So if this is actually true, why hasn't something way over 50% of men cone insane then?

Plus as smart as our body is why would it send every bit of zinc to the testicles when some is needed in ones brain. The body is very good about keep what major body organs need and not sending them to other less important organs when there isn't enough in the body.

Then we would also have the same problem with married men having sex with their wives. An [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] would have the same effect with regards to zinc wither it was by masturbation or intercourse with ones wife.

If if this were true then most men would be insane, single or married. So I think the zinc thing fails as we don't have most men being insane and even those that are, I don't hear the reason being because they made love to their wife too often.

God just doesn't make basic design flaws like that. Praise be to Jesus.

For those that have mentioned that there are professionals that state masturbation is/can be good for you, there are just as many professionals (as is the case with any debate) that sit on the other side of the fence. For example:

Dr. David Horrobin, M.D. and Ph.D. from Oxford University, states:

"The amount of zinc in sperm is such that one [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] may get rid of all the zinc that can be absorbed from the intestines in one day. This has a number of consequences. Unless the amount lost is replaced by an increased dietary intake, repeated [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] may lead to a real zinc deficiency with various problems developing, including impotence.
"It is even possible, given the importance of zinc for the brain, that 19th century moralists were correct when they said that repeated masturbation could make one mad!"—Zinc (Vitabooks: St. Albans, Vermont, 1981), p. 8.

Carl C. Pfeiffer, Ph.D., M.D.,
"We hate to say it, but in a zinc-deficient adolescent, sexual excitement and excessive masturbation might precipitate insanity."—Zinc and Other Micro-nutrients (Keats: New Canaan, Conn., 1978), p. 45.

As far as whether it is possible to touch without lusting, some say they can and its not my place to judge either way. Personally, I think its inviting temptation and would much rather let 'nature take its course' until I get married.

 

[LinkH]

Still, as a married man, I'm thinking of going to get another multi-vitamin and make sure there is some zinc in it, since my last bottle ran out. Maybe I'll pick up a zinc supplement.

 

[airfro14]

So if this is actually true, why hasn't something way over 50% of men cone insane then?

Plus as smart as our body is why would it send every bit of zinc to the testicles when some is needed in ones brain. The body is very good about keep what major body organs need and not sending them to other less important organs when there isn't enough in the body.

Then we would also have the same problem with married men having sex with their wives. An [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] would have the same effect with regards to zinc wither it was by masturbation or intercourse with ones wife.

If if this were true then most men would be insane, single or married. So I think the zinc thing fails as we don't have most men being insane and even those that are, I don't hear the reason being because they made love to their wife too often.

I guess the argument would follow that whether its sex with another or yourself, you can have too much of a good thing. And whereas when you have a partner you have them to keep you 'in check', when its just yourself you're more likely to let loose whenever, hence more zinc lost...anyhow, that's how the argument might follow, but its not mine. I was simply illustrating that there are arguments, whether good or bad, on both sides of any issue including this one.

I don't think we should really look at 'whether masturbation is medically good for me or not', but be more concerned with how we see God's design for sex in the Bible; is it not meant for the union, spiritual, physical and emotional, of husband and wife? If we see masturbation as a 'sex act' then I'd say it ought to be enjoyed within the confines of a marriage relationship, without going into too much detail. Masturbation outside of this context does neither of the above and is only about self.

 

[ivanthegood]

Christians shouldn't touch, but its a very difficult addiction to overcome, many who have cried out to God to be set free and have not been, have made excuses and dreamed up all sorts of ideas about this lewd and sexually immoral behavior. ideally the whole lack of self control begins in ones mind, if someone doesn't control what thoughts they allow in their mind, they will have absolutely no control over their flesh, its that simple! once someone begins to control lustful thinking they will find they have the strength to not touch, in fact after a while they will look back as i have (once completely bound in pornography and masturbation) and wonder how it had such a powerful hold on me, as it is somthing i no longer even fight with.

 

[Larry Mondello]

Christians shouldn't touch, but its a very difficult addiction to overcome,

many who have cried out to God to be set free and have not been,

That's true. Did the same.

Though I don't want to encourage MB, I think it's a normal thing, especially for older single men...

have made excuses and dreamed up all sorts of ideas about this lewd and sexually immoral behavior. ideally the whole lack of self control begins in ones mind, if someone doesn't control what thoughts they allow in their mind, they will have absolutely no control over their flesh, its that simple! once someone begins to control lustful thinking they will find they have the strength to not touch,

in fact after a while they will look back as i have (once completely bound in pornography and masturbation) and wonder how it had such a powerful hold on me, as it is somthing i no longer even fight with.

You've overcome MB? Or just aren't fighting it anymore?

Agree with you MB'ing to porn is clearly wrong.

 

[dayhiker]

airfro,
Yup, I'm well aware of that view. I personally don't find that taught in the Bible. The whole design view comes from Plato's forms as best as I've been able to tell and was brought into our faith later.
I do see masturbation as a sex act. But again, I don't find things viewed this way in the Bible.

 

[dayhiker]

I view masturbation as stating at puberty or even earlier.

Its well known that once men start producing sperm that the gland that stores it fills up in about 3 days. This causes men to feel horny (as we worded it in my day) and get erections. If the a man doesn't [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] most will have wet dreams a few days later to empty the gland. I believe this is by God's design. It is mentioned in the law of Moses.

I also used to cry out to God to deliver me from this, but then a pastor told me about how God designed us men and I already knew God didn't condemn the act of masturbation and I've been free of the guilt that comes from man made laws since then. Now I find it a great occasion to thank God for how He made me.

Christians shouldn't touch, but its a very difficult addiction to overcome, many who have cried out to God to be set free and have not been, have made excuses and dreamed up all sorts of ideas about this lewd and sexually immoral behavior. ideally the whole lack of self control begins in ones mind, if someone doesn't control what thoughts they allow in their mind, they will have absolutely no control over their flesh, its that simple! once someone begins to control lustful thinking they will find they have the strength to not touch, in fact after a while they will look back as i have (once completely bound in pornography and masturbation) and wonder how it had such a powerful hold on me, as it is somthing i no longer even fight with.

 

[Theofane]

I don't believe masturbation is a sin. I think it can help those who do have urges and diminish them.

It makes the so-called gift of celibacy that much easier to bear. It isn't something I'm proud of, but it's something I do. It reminds me of how I am still beholden to the flesh as long as I'm alive.

 

[ivanthegood]

That's true. Did the same.

Though I don't want to encourage MB, I think it's a normal thing, especially for older single men...


You've overcome MB? Or just aren't fighting it anymore?

Agree with you MB'ing to porn is clearly wrong.

i don't touch and i nolonger even think about it

 

[Larry Mondello]

i don't touch and i nolonger even think about it

I see you're married.
Marriage helps.

However, many of us marry partners who aren't as high-drive as we are.
Mine only allows it like once every 1-3 mos., so unfortunately, I find myself MB'ing frequently. Formerly to porn but have been free of that for 2 years.

 

[ivanthegood]

I view masturbation as stating at puberty or even earlier.

Its well known that once men start producing sperm that the gland that stores it fills up in about 3 days. This causes men to feel horny (as we worded it in my day) and get erections. If the a man doesn't [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] most will have wet dreams a few days later to empty the gland. I believe this is by God's design. It is mentioned in the law of Moses.

I also used to cry out to God to deliver me from this, but then a pastor told me about how God designed us men and I already knew God didn't condemn the act of masturbation and I've been free of the guilt that comes from man made laws since then. Now I find it a great occasion to thank God for how He made me.

glad to hear you found teachers who could tell your itching ears what they wanted to hear, masturbation is a lewd behavior, thanking God for your lack of self control, theres a new one!

 

[ivanthegood]

I see you're married.
Marriage helps.

However, many of us marry partners who aren't as high-drive as we are.
Mine only allows it like once every 1-3 mos., so unfortunately, I find myself MB'ing frequently. Formerly to porn but have been free of that for 2 years.

that kinda sounds like a alcoholic who says i only get drunk on occasion, but never on a sunday........getting set free from masturbation is not counting the days since you last jacked off, or as an alcoholic how many days you have gone without a drink. getting set free from an addiction is it has no draw to make you do it anymore.........seek getting set free its much better than simply trying and failing to abstain

 

[dayhiker]

gee, ivan ... your pretty judgmental

Rom. 2 1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

Rom.14 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

 

[steve_bakr]

The teaching of the Catholic Church is that masturbation is a sin, but it allows for the possibility that certain factors like compulsive behavior, anxiety, etc lessen the culpability of the person doing it. I had trouble with this teaching because I used to touch about once or twice a month. Upon entering the Church I felt obliged to stop. It is a completely different way of living, because you learn to "sublimate" or redirect your urges--ie., to deny self. This is a concept which is very contrary to secular values. It is a religious value. But I have a lot of sympathy for anyone struggling with this issue because I am struggling along also.

 

[Larry Mondello]

Originally Posted by groups postings

I see you're married.
Marriage helps.

However, many of us marry partners who aren't as high-drive as we are.
Mine only allows it like once every 1-3 mos., so unfortunately, I find myself MB'ing frequently. Formerly to porn but have been free of that for 2 years.
​

that kinda sounds like a alcoholic who says i only get drunk on occasion, but never on a sunday........getting set free from masturbation is not counting the days since you last jacked off, or as an alcoholic how many days you have gone without a drink. getting set free from an addiction is it has no draw to make you do it anymore.........seek getting set free its much better than simply trying and failing to abstain

Not sure MB is in the same league as alcoholism or other sins.

Though I don't want to encourage MB, I think it's a normal thing, especially for older single men... .

Clearly,
Wouldn't recommend others MB nor do other things.

Felt conflicted about it when single and really condemned.
Here, as a new Christian @19, thought I was really being good and being sexually responsible (considered myself a reborn virgin after losing mine @17-18).

Felt really convicted when I fantasized about ending my 30 y.o. virgin GF's virginity @26.... as I posted earlier.
That clearly was wrong and not anything I ever did toward other women I dated...
Fantasize about my wife now when I MB which I hope is okay...

Gotta understand I had ZERO sex 19-25, nor any handholding, hugging or kissing or much else !!!
Women let alone those "good Christian women" hardly knew I existed. Or I couldn't get second dates.

 

[ivanthegood]

gee, ivan ... your pretty judgmental

Rom. 2 1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

Rom.14 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

usually people who make that claim have been bound with this their whole lifetime, considering your age its not to late to get set free, but i don't think you see this form of sexual immorality as sin, so i can only pray that God will change your mind.......sooner rather then later

 

[LinkH]

Ivan,

Biblically, what is your basis for saying that masturbation is a sin?

 

[dayhiker]

OK, ivan, you say masturbation is a sexual immorality. Which is the current preferred translation of the Greek word porneia. So if you can show me one occurance were porneia is used of masturbation within 100 years of Jesus and Paul's day, then I'll seriously consider your concern. Otherwise, I'll see you as one more Christian who wants to take the freedom Christ gives and replace it with condemnation and guilt.

What's your pleasure?

 

[ivanthegood]

Ivan,

Biblically, what is your basis for saying that masturbation is a sin?

well for one do you believe having sex with a blow up doll is a sin (yes or no) if yes what would the difference be of sticking your penis in a piece of plastic or your hand, your having sex with yourself, you are a lover of yourself, its a lewd behavior, its completely addicting, (otherwise people wouldn't do it) Its self abuse, its a complete lack of self control, its whole basis is lust, and self gratification........i'm not sure why sex with your hand even needs explaination from a biblical stand point. almost as if i'm talking with folks that have seared they're consciences

 

[ivanthegood]

OK, ivan, you say masturbation is a sexual immorality. Which is the current preferred translation of the Greek word porneia. So if you can show me one occurance were porneia is used of masturbation within 100 years of Jesus and Paul's day, then I'll seriously consider your concern. Otherwise, I'll see you as one more Christian who wants to take the freedom Christ gives and replace it with condemnation and guilt.

What's your pleasure?

my pleasure is living a godly life denying myself and following Jesus who said "be holy because I am holy"............my message is that if your addicted to this behavior you can get set free from it, why anyone would want to live their life with the constant nagging that this addiction holds on people i'll never know! but the first step in getting free is like any first step in getting free from sin, you must see it as a sin and repent