Is contextual understanding a core value of Messianic Judaism?

[Yahudim]

Is the understanding of the Hebraic, Historic and Cultural context of scripture (from multiple sources) a core value of Messianic Judaism?

This is a YES or NO poll.

Please state your view and give examples to support your view.
Please do not debate the answers of others.

* I suppose some rules are meant to be ignored.

 

[Henaynei]

You need to know who is speaking
To whom they are speaking
The circumstances/occasion/situation/culture/history in which it was written
And it helps immensely to know how those seeking truth thousands of years ago understood what was being communicated

All that to properly divide and understand the teachings and events of scripture.

Also to try to strip away the accumulated layers of peeling discordant paint of centuries of political and theological expediency to recover the breathtakingly beautiful color, warmth, patterns and depth of the underlying wood and grain of scripture that has been unknowingly usually, ignorantly certainly and not infrequently deliberately obscured - to recover a heritage and truth that was lost.

b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}

 

[Lulav]

MJ only-debate welcome Is contextual understanding a core value of Messianic Judaism?

Is the understanding of the Hebraic, Historic and Cultural context of scripture (from multiple sources) a core value of Messianic Judaism?

This is a YES or NO poll.

Please state your view and give examples to support your view.
RULES:

1. NO DEBATE PLEASE.
2. PLEASE ONLY POST ONCE.
3. FEEL FREE TO EDIT YOUR OWN POST TO REFINE YOUR ANSWER AS YOU FEEL NECESSARY.

Color me confused!

 

[Henaynei]

Color me confused!

I think it is because that is the closest he could get to " MJ Only"

b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}

 

[Lulav]

I think it is because that is the closest he could get to " MJ Only"

b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}

Yeah, my faux pas

 

[visionary]

It makes the most sense, it is like seeing things blurry for years, then given laser vision, it all become so clear and sharp focus. I love it. To me, it has to be fear that would drive one to the seclusion of the closet.

 

[yedida]

I believe that it is. One example would be that sometimes a Hebrew word/meaning that has been chosen works but another one would have worked much better in the translating it into our language. And that can sometimes change the meaning when taken in context with the whole. But we wouldn't know this if we didn't do a little bit of homework for ourselves.
And knowing the culture and the history can help open up a deeper understanding.

 

[Yahudim]

Forgive me. I was ignoring my own OP that asked for reasons that support my vote. Well here it is:

Even if we ignore the obvious need to verify questionable translations; even if we choose to ignore the obvious need to understand the culture and environment of the people that wrote scripture and the audience to which these writings were addressed, there is other pressing reasons to understand the context of scripture. Because it is clearly demonstrated by historical documents from the many cultures that participated in the Roman Empire, that today's systematic theology and the many erroneous doctrines of the ancient congregations of the 2nd and 3rd century were purposely developed in answer to Rome's political and religious agendas and in concert with the Rabbi's determination to exclude the followers of Y'shua from the community of Pharisaical Judaism. So yes, if Messianic Judaism is an attempt to return to the practices of first century Messianic worship, contextual research and understanding is not only valuable, it is essential and therefore a core belief and practice of Messianic Judaism.

 

[mishkan]

Forgive me. I was ignoring my own OP that asked for reasons that support my vote. Well here it is:

Even if we ignore the obvious need to verify questionable translations; even if we choose to ignore the obvious need to understand the culture and environment of the people that wrote scripture and the audience to which these writings were addressed, there is other pressing reasons to understand the context of scripture. Because it is clearly demonstrated by historical documents from the many cultures that participated in the Roman Empire, that today's systematic theology and the many erroneous doctrines of the ancient congregations of the 2nd and 3rd century were purposely developed in answer to Rome's political and religious agendas and in concert with the Rabbi's determination to exclude the followers of Y'shua from the community of Pharisaical Judaism. So yes, if Messianic Judaism is an attempt to return to the practices of first century Messianic worship, contextual research and understanding is not only valuable, it is essential and therefore a core belief and practice of Messianic Judaism.

This time, it's my turn... "What he said!"

 

[yedida]

This time, it's my turn... "What he said!"

Wish I'd held back so I could say it too!! But I'm only allowed per the OP to give my reasons once. I can edit my post but saying "what he said" before he said it would leave a few mighty confused!! Ah, the mischieveous side of me begins thinking............

 

[Yahudim]

Wish I'd held back so I could say it too!! But I'm only allowed per the OP to give my reasons once. I can edit my post but saying "what he said" before he said it would leave a few mighty confused!! Ah, the mischieveous side of me begins thinking............

Hey Sis,

Look at the OP. I changed it. (pretty sneaky, huh?)

 

[Henaynei]

Hey Sis,

Look at the OP. I changed it. (pretty sneaky, huh?)

That's ok, I edited my initial post too

b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}

 

[Avodat]

All of the above!

 

[yedida]

Hey Sis,

Look at the OP. I changed it. (pretty sneaky, huh?)

Yeah, you can be a stinker!! But it looks like a lot of us love stinkers

 

[Avodat]

I voted no.

A contextual understanding of scripture is not listed as the core value of any major Messianic Judaism organization, so it can not be said to be a core value.

If there is a common view of scripture in Messianic Judaism, it is a literal understanding. When scripture says Israel, it means the descendents of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. When God make a promise/prophesy to the children of Israel, the promise is for the children of Israel.

A contextual understanding of scripture, has been a hermeneutical method in the Christian church for a long time.

It is one of the solid hermeneutical methods of interpreting scripture.

That's quite a tautologous statement! How would you know it is not a core value - does it say so any web sites or are you privy to this level of knowledge in all major Messianic organisations? I don't think any leader worth their salt would even contemplate working under a system where context is not of prime value in understanding G_d's word - it is a nonsense to say, or imply, that they would. I certainly wouldn't and I do not know another leader who would. If that is your view of MJism I shall ensure I never step into one of their services!

I do not think the Church (is there one that isn't Christian?) is the founder of contextual analysis - it has been around much longer than that.

 

[visionary]

I voted no.

A contextual understanding of scripture is not listed as the core value of any major Messianic Judaism organization, so it can not be said to be a core value.

If there is a common view of scripture in Messianic Judaism, it is a literal understanding. When scripture says Israel, it means the descendents of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. When God make a promise/prophesy to the children of Israel, the promise is for the children of Israel.

A contextual understanding of scripture, has been a hermeneutical method in the Christian church for a long time.

It is one of the solid hermeneutical methods of interpreting scripture.

I love all the avenues... for God is infinite, and the Torah is applicable in infinite manner, for infinite situations, lasting for all eternity. I agree with Mishkan, more knowledge is more power. I also like to run it all by God for approval too. In His Presence, if it lines up with His Character, purpose, and Holy life, then it is all good.

 

[mishkan]

I voted no.

Odd, but not completely surprising.

A contextual understanding of scripture is not listed as the core value of any major Messianic Judaism organization, so it can not be said to be a core value.

You do understand that not everything of value gets written on a website, right?

If there is a common view of scripture in Messianic Judaism, it is a literal understanding. When scripture says Israel, it means the descendents of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. When God make a promise/prophesy to the children of Israel, the promise is for the children of Israel.

Literal, yes. But there is more, if one is going to claim any sort of ties to Judaism and Jewish thought.

A contextual understanding of scripture, has been a hermeneutical method in the Christian church for a long time.

A method, but not the primary method. In almost all cases, in almost all denominations, allegorization is the name of the game. Every time somebody picks up a verse like, "No weapon formed against you shall prosper", and responds with, "That's me!", he is engaged in non-literal, allegorical interpretation.

Even those modern Evangelicals that think they have a literal view are part of an interpretive tradition that is only a couple hundred years old. And I would maintain that it isn't all that literal, at the end of the day.

Meanwhile, there is almost zero consideration given to external sources, like the Talmud, that will show non-literal usages of terms that do get interpreted literally. There is a tendency within Christendom to place literal weight on a number of metaphors, like human temples.

It is one of the solid hermeneutical methods of interpreting scripture.

What you seem to be describing as a literal methodology, in your dispensational circles, is certainly far better than the approach used in historical covenantal theology. But even dispies recognize that "literal" is not really the appropriate term for what they do. The accurate way of describing the historical/cultural/linguistic contextual approach is "according to the literary format"--"literarily".

Everything has a context. But one must decide how far one is willing to pursue that context.

• Every letter sits in a word
• Every word sits in a sentence
• Every sentence sits in a paragraph
• Every paragraph sits in a chapter
• Every chapter sits in a book/letter
• Every book/letter was written by a person with a particular purpose, to an audience with particular experience of that person
• Every author and audience is part of a religious/social culture
• Every culture is part of a world scene that causes it to reflect certain values at certain times

 

[visionary]

Odd, but not completely surprising.


You do understand that not everything of value gets written on a website, right?


Literal, yes. But there is more, if one is going to claim any sort of ties to Judaism and Jewish thought.


A method, but not the primary method. In almost all cases, in almost all denominations, allegorization is the name of the game. Every time somebody picks up a verse like, "No weapon formed against you shall prosper", and responds with, "That's me!", he is engaged in non-literal, allegorical interpretation.

Even those modern Evangelicals that think they have a literal view are part of an interpretive tradition that is only a couple hundred years old. And I would maintain that it isn't all that literal, at the end of the day.

Meanwhile, there is almost zero consideration given to external sources, like the Talmud, that will show non-literal usages of terms that do get interpreted literally. There is a tendency within Christendom to place literal weight on a number of metaphors, like human temples.


What you seem to be describing as a literal methodology, in your dispensational circles, is certainly far better than the approach used in historical covenantal theology. But even dispies recognize that "literal" is not really the appropriate term for what they do. The accurate way of describing the historical/cultural/linguistic contextual approach is "according to the literary format"--"literarily".

Everything has a context. But one must decide how far one is willing to pursue that context.

• Every letter sits in a word
• Every word sits in a sentence
• Every sentence sits in a paragraph
• Every paragraph sits in a chapter
• Every chapter sits in a book/letter
• Every book/letter was written by a person with a particular purpose, to an audience with particular experience of that person
• Every author and audience is part of a religious/social culture
• Every culture is part of a world scene that causes it to reflect certain values at certain times

and I believe the major contest here is, is it right that MJ see it in the Hebrew root context?

 

[Henaynei]

I voted yes, of course.

To a choice of no, in relationship to MJism my response would be ...
PaRDeS. Four pillars that provide stability and which support each other, not a stand alone stick but a bundle of sticks providing balance and strength.

A literal, non-contextual view of scripture barely scratches the p'[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] level and leaves the other 3 levels totally untouched, unrecognized and unexplored. Then we are left cutting off our hands and plucking out our eyes.

b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}

 

[visionary]

I voted yes, of course.

To a choice of no, in relationship to MJism my response would be ...
PaRDeS.

b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}

Now that is some serious Hebrew meat that PaRDeS... good stuff.